Defensive Gun Use - NPR Strikes Again

[Ben]

0.9% of gun owners have used a gun for self-defense.  

Same old trope about how the gun is much more available for misuse. Also, as they dis Kleck, they invalidate their own argument at the same time. Their premise seems to be that you're only defending yourself if you pull the trigger. Bearing a weapon, and stopping something before it starts, is not counted in their research from what I can see.

They also mention "unreliable survey information". Duh. In today's climate, were I accosted on the street (versus my home) and able to stop an attack by simply drawing my gun but not firing, I'd be inclined to reholster after the bad guy fled and not report anything. Draw. Reholster. Shutup. YMMV depending on the part of the country you live in.

Oh, also - thanks "Mike the Gun Guy" (unless you were taken out of context):

Even if someone wanted to use a gun in self-defense, they probably wouldn't be very successful, says Mike Weisser, firearms instructor and author of the blog "Mike The Gun Guy."

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense

[lee n. field]

0.9% of gun owners have used a gun for self-defense.  

Same old trope about how the gun is much more available for misuse. Also, as they dis Kleck, they invalidate their own argument at the same time. Their premise seems to be that you're only defending yourself if you pull the trigger. Bearing a weapon, and stopping something before it starts, is not counted in their research from what I can see.

They also mention "unreliable survey information". Duh. In today's climate, were I accosted on the street (versus my home) and able to stop an attack by simply drawing my gun but not firing, I'd be inclined to reholster after the bad guy fled and not report anything. Draw. Reholster. Shutup. YMMV depending on the part of the country you live in.

Oh, also - thanks "Mike the Gun Guy" (unless you were taken out of context):

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense

Mike Duh Gun Guy appears to write for HuffPo.

[MechAg94]

When talking about the defensive gun use number from 1995, they talk a lot about unreliable data and surveys, but they don't say that when it comes to the Harvard research, no do they mention the numbers at all.  And the Harvard research is based on a survey rather than FBI crime statistics.  

They also can't seem to grasp that most defensive gun uses don't involve someone getting shot or even a discharge of the weapon.  They complain that there weren't 2.5 million gun shot wounds.  In the same article they talk about most people couldn't handle properly using a gun in self defense yet they assume that someone would be shot in EVERY SINGLE DGU. 

As usual, they are throwing a bunch of random anti-gun thought on the paper and hoping people won't dig further or realize how weak their argument is.

[Perd Hapley]

Mike Duh Gun Guy appears to write for HuffPo.

He's been around for a while now. One of those "I own guns, but I'm not one of those crazy NRA types" types. I think he wrote a book, but I don't recall the name.

[HankB]

. . .  In today's climate, were I accosted on the street (versus my home) and able to stop an attack by simply drawing my gun but not firing, I'd be inclined to reholster after the bad guy fled and not report anything. Draw. Reholster. Shutup. YMMV depending on the part of the country you live in . . .

In yesterday's climate as well . . . I know of several instances where a gun was drawn defensively - in one case, actually fired (she missed) - without any subsequent police report or involvement.

[230RN]

"As usual, they are throwing a bunch of random anti-gun thought on the paper and hoping people won't dig further or realize how weak their argument is."

Standard operating procedure.  Retractions to their nonsense will appear wayyyyy down in their web page or whatever.  Standard operating procedure.

[Pb]

No one really has a decent estimate on how often guns are used defensively in the USA.  People lie on these surveys- a lot, and in both directions.

[TommyGunn]

No one really has a decent estimate on how often guns are used defensively in the USA.  People lie on these surveys- a lot, and in both directions.

Gary Kleck of the University of Florida and Professors Lott and Mustard of U. Of Chicago all did studies that provided very reasonable estimates of the use of firearms in self defense in America.  Usually expressed as approximations,  or within certain parameters or ranges,  they're pretty accurate overall even if not precise down to +or - 1.

[TechMan]

He's been around for a while now. One of those "I own guns, but I'm not one of those crazy NRA types" types. I think he wrote a book, but I don't recall the name.

Sandy Hook: A man sold a gun.

[Pb]

Gary Kleck of the University of Florida and Professors Lott and Mustard of U. Of Chicago all did studies that provided very reasonable estimates of the use of firearms in self defense in America.  Usually expressed as approximations,  or within certain parameters or ranges,  they're pretty accurate overall even if not precise down to +or - 1.

You may be right.

I don't know how you would account for people lying about this sort of thing though.

Anyone know?

[MechAg94]

You may be right.

I don't know how you would account for people lying about this sort of thing though.

Anyone know?

http://home.uchicago.edu/ludwigj/papers/JQC-CookLudwig-DefensiveGunUses-1998.pdf
This is one I saw a link for a while back.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082
This looks like it talks about the issue, but I haven't read much of it yet.

[Perd Hapley]

The studies I've heard about have DGUs occuring everywhere from a few hundred thousand to over 2 million times per year. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that they happen many times every day.

[MechAg94]

The studies I've heard about have DGUs occuring everywhere from a few hundred thousand to over 2 million times per year. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that they happen many times every day.

I think the anti-gunners came up with numbers in the several hundred thousand.  The CDC had their own study if I am not mistaken.

(edited because missing words can screw up the meaning.)

[freakazoid]

I think the anti-gunners came up with numbers in the several hundred thousand.  The CDC had their own study if I am not mistaken.

(edited because missing words can screw up the meaning.)

I think most hoplophobes only count incidents where someone used a gun where they ended up killing the badguy, I think you were correct the first time with them counting only several hundred, don't think I've ever seen them count several hundred thousand.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't think the CDC did their own study on DGUs. They just talked about studies that had already been done.