Afghanistan

[Hawkmoon]

I hadn't heard anything about that number of people.  Who is still there?

White House claims 11,000 Americans. Or more precisely, who "self-identify as American citizens" as per Psaki.


https://www.theepochtimes.com/5000-to-10000-americans-remain-in-taliban-held-afghanistan-pentagon_3952778.html

The former Army officer linked in an earlier post said he has a list of 14,000 names, and his estimate was (IIRC) 22,000. That wasn't just American citizens -- it includes translators and others who worked for/with the U.S. and who are not in danger.

As for what Americans are still there -- I'm sure there are American journalists scattered around the country, as well as people working for NGOs, and probably some American contractors.

[Ben]

Interesting comparison between the Soviet and US withdrawals from Afghanistan:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/the-united-states-and-soviet-union-in-afghanistan-a-tale-of-two-withdrawals_3953072.html

[MechAg94]

Does anyone remember how many soldiers we had in country by early 2002? 

I was thinking that when we decided to play nation building, we screwed things up.  Had we limited things to support of the Northern Alliance, it might have forced non-Taliban leaders to cut deals to maintaining control and stability.  Trying to set up an externally forced Afghan Govt with US military backing probably just gave the leaders an excuse to be corrupt and not worry about any power sharing (or profit sharing).  I figure it set the Taliban up to receive support from our enemies also.  Probably a lot more to it, but just a thought. 

[makattak]

Does anyone remember how many soldiers we had in country by early 2002? 

I was thinking that when we decided to play nation building, we screwed things up.  Had we limited things to support of the Northern Alliance, it might have forced non-Taliban leaders to cut deals to maintaining control and stability.  Trying to set up an externally forced Afghan Govt with US military backing probably just gave the leaders an excuse to be corrupt and not worry about any power sharing (or profit sharing).  I figure it set the Taliban up to receive support from our enemies also.  Probably a lot more to it, but just a thought.

If we are going to impose a government on a people, we need to impose a government with a governor, laws, and enforcers from us that will follow those laws. Make the people understand the value of the rule of law until they are CAPABLE of self-governance. (It will take at least a generation, probably more.)

If were AREN'T going to do that, we ought to let the people there set up the government however they want and then decide if we can support that. Imposing restrictions for "self-government" so long as they put in place the right "rules" is stupid.

It's more cargo cult thinking: "Look at all these successful democracies in the West! All we need to do is "export Democracy" and they'll be just like us!"

Of course, I'm not so sure that "democracy" in the West is looking all that successful right now, anyway....

[Ben]

Does anyone remember how many soldiers we had in country by early 2002? 

I was thinking that when we decided to play nation building, we screwed things up.  Had we limited things to support of the Northern Alliance, it might have forced non-Taliban leaders to cut deals to maintaining control and stability.  Trying to set up an externally forced Afghan Govt with US military backing probably just gave the leaders an excuse to be corrupt and not worry about any power sharing (or profit sharing).  I figure it set the Taliban up to receive support from our enemies also.  Probably a lot more to it, but just a thought.

The Epoch Times article mentions that the ruskies made a ruthless strongman president, and that we made an academic president, which may be partly why things held together much longer after the ruskies left than with us, and allowed the ruskies a greater withdrawal time.

[Ben]

Should be a fun uber ride to the airport:



https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/08/17/gut-punch-american-citizens-informed-the-us-government-cant-guarantee-their-security-as-they-make-their-way-to-the-airport/

[bedlamite]

Wait -- the white terrorists eating ice cream and hot dogs are White Supremacists? I assumed that meant antifa.

[Angel Eyes]

Thousands of Americans still stuck in the 'stan:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/5000-to-10000-americans-remain-in-taliban-held-afghanistan-pentagon_3952778.html

A spokesperson for the Taliban said on Sky News that all American troops must leave the country by Sept. 11.

Interesting choice for a deadline.

[WLJ]

Thousands of Americans still stuck in the 'stan:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/5000-to-10000-americans-remain-in-taliban-held-afghanistan-pentagon_3952778.html

Interesting choice for a deadline.

Wasn't Sept 11 Biden's deadline for the pullout?

[bedlamite]

[Angel Eyes]

Wasn't Sept 11 Biden's deadline for the pullout?

The article says the goal was everyone out by August 31st. 

[WLJ]

The article says the goal was everyone out by August 31st.

Thought I saw Sept 11 somewhere

[dogmush]

I really doubt they are US citizens.  They may be US allies from A-stan, which is certainly bad.  This pull-out should have covered US allies prior to troop evacuation.

Abandoning a small town's population of US citizen foreign contractors is too grotesque even for Biden/Harris.

I'm told they are NGO employees and contractors. Mostly State department contractors.

[Jim147]

Apparently they had an evacuation plan in place since April but with everyone on vacation no one gave the order.

[Angel Eyes]

[BobR]

I'm told they are NGO employees and contractors. Mostly State department contractors.

I have an uneasy feeling the Taliban may have figured out a way to get GITMO emptied of their comrades in arms. It worked with Obama and he only got one person back.

bob

[WLJ]

[Lennyjoe]

The resistance is beginning to form.

https://coffeeordie.com/afghan-resistance-grows/?fbclid=IwAR0XPeWN2Iwa68uudwWq-qjBH8uzVrn30fLpdAxyMs71WhfcQj-M_KZ_EBs

[bedlamite]

Can you hear me now?

[Ben]

[img width=600]https://external-preview.redd.it/pqMplieMz4EQ7k7fxatnsO_vaF06BaQPHBihcJ46MHQ.jpg?auto=webp&s=9f8bad587b8126cc82eff104cbcc90560e8ab351

At first I thought that was a photoshopped joke. It's a (unfunny) joke alright, but all too real. The Taliban has better PR people than we do. The MSM should ask 46 about his latest ice cream flavor at the next Afghanistan briefing.

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/08/18/the-taliban-discover-gym-equipment-and-soft-serve-ice-cream-but-heres-what-really-going-on/

Also, if you look at the gym videos and the videos of Taliban detaining people, you have to wonder how these guys stormed through the country so quickly and efficiently.

[DittoHead]

you have to wonder how these guys stormed through the country so quickly and efficiently.

Not really

[Angel Eyes]

The MSM should ask 46 about his latest ice cream flavor at the next Afghanistan briefing.

Taliban Toffee?

[Ben]

Not really

True enough.

I didn't say it in my post, but for me, part of it was watching utter goofballs in those (and other) videos looking like the keystone cops of armies. Yet somehow they have held back, waited out, and kicked out professional soldiers, from us, to the USSR, to countless others over a thousand years. It's a bizarre dichotomy to me.

[MechAg94]

True enough.

I didn't say it in my post, but for me, part of it was watching utter goofballs in those (and other) videos looking like the keystone cops of armies. Yet somehow they have held back, waited out, and kicked out professional soldiers, from us, to the USSR, to countless others over a thousand years. It's a bizarre dichotomy to me.

I figure it is 1) the other nations finally realized this was a the @$$ end of nowhere and it wasn't worth digging into the mountains to exterminate them, and 2) we won't exterminate them or anyone else. 

Just like guerilla warfare going back as far as written history goes, as long as they don't concentrate into one army or try to fight us head on, we can't catch or kill enough of them to eliminate them completely.  They keep looking for opportunities to attack.  I also have to wonder what support the Taliban has been getting from people like the Chinese. 

[WLJ]

True enough.

I didn't say it in my post, but for me, part of it was watching utter goofballs in those (and other) videos looking like the keystone cops of armies. Yet somehow they have held back, waited out, and kicked out professional soldiers, from us, to the USSR, to countless others over a thousand years. It's a bizarre dichotomy to me.

They had the fortitude and a willingness to get their hands bloody but lacked the technology and the logistics. We have the technology and the logistics but lack the fortitude and willingness and the Afghans know that. Unless you're willing to go all "medieval" on them it's best to just keep them isolated and stay the heck out which is what they want.