Author Topic: Gas headed for $10 gallon  (Read 15834 times)

The Annoyed Man

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Gas headed for $10 gallon
« on: April 28, 2008, 11:11:20 AM »
So dig deep all you SUV drivers  laugh

Gasoline May Soon Cost a Sawbuck
Big New Shock at the Pump Forecast by Two Analysts
      By DAN DORFMAN
Special to the Sun
April 28, 2008


Get ready for another economic shock of major proportions  a virtual doubling of prices at the gas pump to as much as $10 a gallon.

That's the message from a couple of analytical energy industry trackers, both of whom, based on the surging oil prices, see considerably more pain at the pump than most drivers realize.

Gasoline nationally is in an accelerated upswing, having jumped to $3.58 a gallon from $3.50 in just the past week. In some parts of the country, including New York City and the West Coast, gas is already sporting a price tag above $4 a gallon. There was a pray-in at a Chevron station in San Francisco on Friday led by a minister asking God for cheaper gas, and an Arco gas station in San Mateo, Calif., has already raised its price to a sky-high $4.62.

In Manhattan, at a Mobil gas station at York Avenue and East 61st Street, premium gas is now $4.03 a gallon. Two days ago, it was $3.96. Why such a high price? "Blame the people at STOPEC (he meant OPEC) and the oil companies," an attendant there told me.

These increases are taking place before the all-important summer driving season, signaling even higher prices ahead.

That's also the outlook of the Automobile Association of America. "As long as the price of crude oil stays above $100 a barrel, drivers will be forced to pay more and more at the gas pump," a AAA spokesman, Troy Green, said.

Oil recently hit an all-time high of nearly $120 a barrel, more than double its early 2007 price of about $50 a barrel. It closed Friday at $118.52.

The forecasts calling for a jump to between $7 and $10 a gallon are based on the view that the price of crude is on its way to $200 in two to three years.

Translating this price into dollars and cents at the gas pump, one of our forecasters, the chairman of Houston-based Dune Energy, Alan Gaines, sees gas rising to $7-$8 a gallon. The other, a commodities tracker at Weiss Research in Jupiter, Fla., Sean Brodrick, projects a range of $8 to $10 a gallon.

While $7-$10 a gallon would be ground-breaking in America, these prices would not be trendsetting internationally. For example, European drivers are already shelling out $9 a gallon (which includes a $2-a-gallon tax).

Canadians are also being hit with rising gas prices. They are paying the American-dollar equivalent of $4.92 a gallon, and they're being told to brace themselves for prices above $5.65 a gallon this summer.

Early last year, with a barrel of oil trading in the low $50s and gasoline nationally selling in a range of $2.30 to $2.50 a gallon, Mr. Gaines  in an impressive display of crystal ball gazing  accurately predicted oil was $100-bound and that gasoline would follow suit by reaching $4 a gallon.

His latest prediction of $200 oil is open to question, since it would undoubtedly create considerable global economic distress. Further, just about every energy expert I talk to cautions me to expect a sizable pullback in oil prices, maybe to between $50 and $70 a barrel, especially if there's a global economic slowdown.

While Mr. Gaines thinks there could be a temporary decline in the oil price, he's convinced an overall uptrend is unstoppable. In fact, he thinks his $200 forecast could be conservative, and that perhaps $250 could be reached. His reasoning: a combination of shrinking supply and increasing demand, especially from China, India, and America.

Mr. Brodrick's $200 oil forecast is largely predicated on a combination of pretty flat supply and rip-roaring demand. Other key catalysts include surging demand in China and India, where auto sales are booming, and major supply disruptions in Nigeria and also in Mexico, our second-largest source of oil imports, where oil production has fallen off a cliff.

More factors include the ever-present danger of additional supply disruptions from volatile countries in the Middle East that are not our allies, and the unwillingness of SUV-loving Americans to trim their unquenchable thirst for foreign oil. Likewise, for the first time, emerging markets this year will use more oil than America.

To Mr. Brodrick, it all adds up to an ongoing energy bull market. His favorite plays are the Energy Select Sector SPDR Fund ; United States Natural Gas Fund LP; Apache Corp.; Occidental Petroleum; Anadarko Petroleum, and Schlumberger.

http://www2.nysun.com/article/75363

mtnbkr

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 11:48:31 AM »
Laugh all you want, but $10/gallon gas is going to be just a big a problem for you as it is for SUV drivers.  Food and goods have to be shipped.  Transportation cost increases aren't going to be absorbed, they're going to be passed on to the consumer.  In one way or another, we'll all be paying for it, so enjoy your smug now.  I'm sure we'll hear you whine when your favorite beer doubles in price.

Chris

taurusowner

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 11:59:51 AM »
Sounds like a good time to finally tell the greenpeace lobby to STFU and start drilling the billions upon billions of barrels of oil we already know we have in the US.

Manedwolf

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 12:00:52 PM »
We have plenty of crude. It's the refineries that are the bottleneck.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 12:03:32 PM »
As smug as you are over that, $10 a gallon would cripple our economy and plunge us into another depression.
JD

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Lennyjoe

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 12:04:38 PM »
I agree with the last two posts

Boomhauer

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 12:06:09 PM »
But that's good, jamisjockey. Then we will have another FDR to increase gov't spending and take us out of it! rolleyes







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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2008, 12:31:37 PM »
$10 a gallon?  I don't buy it. 

Crude price accounts for something like half or two thirds of the price of a gallon of gas.  If crude goes from $120 to $200, that's only an increase of 1.67 times, and it only affects 1/2 or 2/3 of the price.  Distribution would become more expensive with rising fuel prices, but distribution only accounts for a tenth of the price of gas.

At $200 a barrel for crude, I expect a gallon of gas should cost closer to $5 or $6.

The Annoyed Man

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 12:49:35 PM »
No 'smugness' at all from me.  This is serious business.   Your government has sold you out and our country is circling the drain.  But you're more interested in what Obama's preacher said.  Or the latest cartoons.  Wake up.  Smell the coffee.

Or go shopping at Walmart.  That will make everything better.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 12:54:01 PM »
Found better data on gasoline price breakdown:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html

Played with the numbers in an excel spreadsheet.  Averaged out the values for each week since 3-March.

Distribution costs $0.09
Crude costs $2.55
Refining costs $0.35
Taxes cost $0.64
Total is $3.64 per gallon

Figure the cost of crude doubles (i.e. $100 to $200).  Figure the cost of distribution increases 1.5X due to rising fuel prices.  Figure the cost of refining increases 1.25X due to rising fuel prices.  Figure taxes increase 1.25X. 

With crude at $200, the total cost should be about $6.47/gal.  And that assumes California prices.  Figure middle or high $5 range in saner parts of the country.

seeker_two

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 12:56:12 PM »
We have plenty of crude. It's the refineries that are the bottleneck.

Especially since the refineries are just operating at @ 80% capacity and gas demand nationwide is down 10%.

Read here.... www.insideautomotive.com
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mtnbkr

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 12:57:48 PM »
No 'smugness' at all from me.  This is serious business.   Your government has sold you out and our country is circling the drain.  But you're more interested in what Obama's preacher said.  Or the latest cartoons.  Wake up.  Smell the coffee.

Or go shopping at Walmart.  That will make everything better.

Or we could refuse to vote, that'll make things better, eh?

Chris

Perd Hapley

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2008, 02:23:41 PM »
I prefer to amuse myself by perusing the rants of an embittered alarmist. 
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RevDisk

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2008, 04:16:12 PM »

Unlikely for any length of time.  A short spike, maybe.  Alternative crude production would become economical far before $10/gal.  Probably using the Fischer-Tropsch process at first, then expanding in shale oil, Syncrude, etc etc. While extremely unevironmental, you could just squeeze coal to get crude.  Very inefficient, but it does work.  And we have a lot of coal. 

Feds would probably open up the SPR, which is designed for such an emergency.  The SPR could tide over the entire US for 56 days theoretically.  More realistically, it'd be released in smaller amounts over a longer period of time.  Considering that the US does have not insignificant oil production, more should currently uneconomical production locations become suddenly economical.
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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2008, 04:46:30 PM »
I thought that damned ethanol was supposed to help with "ending our dependence on foreign oil"?

Werewolf

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2008, 04:51:55 PM »
As smug as you are over that, $10 a gallon would cripple our economy and plunge us into another depression.

A really big PLUS 1 to that.

$10 a gallon gas will result in an economic collapse that will make the great depression look like boom times.

Here's hoping that before it happens our masters wise up and open up Anwar and off shore drilling sites. We may not have the refineries to turn the oil into gas but other countries do and with enough oil on the market the price/barrel will go low enough that gas prices will follow.

Stock up on SHTF stuff now if you believe the price of gas will hit $10/gal and oil $200/barrel.
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Werewolf

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2008, 04:52:52 PM »
I thought that damned ethanol was supposed to help with "ending our dependence on foreign oil"?
All that damned ethanol is doing is raising the price of the food we eat. Thanks Al Gore and all your whacko brethren.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2008, 06:10:11 PM »
Quote
All that damned ethanol is doing is raising the price of the food we eat. Thanks Al Gore and all your whacko brethren.

Yeah, cause we all know that trucks moving food, dairy, and produce - let alone the tractors that plant your wheaties sure as hell don't run on DIESEL FUEL as it approaches $4.20/gallon, don't we? 

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taurusowner

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2008, 07:20:18 PM »
We all realize that the prive for a barrel of oil is exactly what the market is willing to pay for it at any given time right?  Once consumers have reached the limit of what they are willing to pay, just like at an auction, the price tops out there.  When someone is willing to pay more, the price rises to meet them.  However, just like at an auction, if the seller(the oil company that spent money to drill and refine the oil) is not getting what they deem fair compensation for their work, they don't seel their product anymore.

Supply and demand is a very simple concept.  Look at food.  Demand for corn and wheat has remained, for the sake of argument, the same(it's actually rising with population increases).  Supply of corn for food has decreased since lots of corn is making ethanol.  Supply of wheat has decreased since many wheat growers have switched to corn so they can get the big .gov subsidies to make ethanol.  Hence, price for food products has risen.  it's called competition.  More people bidding one an item increases the price.  More people bidding on less food increases the price. 


Oil companies are in the business to make money.  And that's fine.  You don't work for free, and neither do they.  You demand payment and compensation for working all week, and so do they.  Everyone has the right to seek profit for their work. 

Once the price to drill, ship, refine, and ship oil has exceeded the price people are willing to pay for the end product, it will no longer be profitable to be in the oil business, and the "big oil" companies will either call it quits or move on to something else.  And that will be bad for everyone.

The only way to lower prices is to increase supply or decrease demand.  There is no other solution but that.  It's very simple.  Build more American refineries.  Drill in oil fields that we know we have.  Increase supply.  Prices go down.  Who is in the way of increasing supply?  The Left.  Eco freaks, and Reverand Al Gore disciples.

America has hundreds of billions of gallon in oil fields that we are not allowing ourselves to drill.  That needs to end.  Right now.  America needs to build more refineries.  Right now.  The soultions are plain and simple and right in front of our faces.  Start implementing these solutions today and tell the people who are against the solutions to STFU and get out of the way.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2008, 08:51:25 PM »
Quote
While extremely unevironmental, you could just squeeze coal to get crude.  Very inefficient, but it does work.  And we have a lot of coal. 


But do we have enough Supermen?  grin


And it's ANWR, not Anwar.  Technically it's the NPR-A that would get opened first.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 02:51:51 AM »
No 'smugness' at all from me.  This is serious business.   Your government has sold you out and our country is circling the drain.  But you're more interested in what Obama's preacher said.  Or the latest cartoons.  Wake up.  Smell the coffee.

Or go shopping at Walmart.  That will make everything better.

The most serious thing you've proposed is to sit on your glorious ass at home on election day.  But I kneel before you, oh master, as apparently you've smelled the coffee and the coffee is good.
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El Tejon

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 03:05:15 AM »
$10 a gallon?  It's about time.

You people need to get off my roads.  Yes, the roads are all mine as I have paid enough taxes to buy them all.  Get off my roads and go cling to God and guns and leave my alone when I'm driving.

It cannot be $10 a gallon soon enough.
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charby

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 05:05:03 AM »
America has hundreds of billions of gallon in oil fields that we are not allowing ourselves to drill.  That needs to end.  Right now.  America needs to build more refineries.  Right now.  The soultions are plain and simple and right in front of our faces.  Start implementing these solutions today and tell the people who are against the solutions to STFU and get out of the way.

It is starting to happen:

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/13/news/latest_news/7c3944108b8586ee862572f90065c2de.txt

Quote
$8B green refinery would employ 1,800 in S.D.
UPDATED 7:50 PM

ELK POINT, S.D. - A Texas-based energy firm planning to build the first U.S. oil refinery in more than 30 years said today that Union County is a finalist for the $8 billion project.

The refinery, which Hyperion Resources Inc. described as a "green energy technology center,'' would create as many 10,000 construction jobs and employ 1,800 after its completion in four years.

Hyperion also is considering "alternative sites'' in at least two other Midwest states, project executive Preston Phillips said at a late afternoon news conference at the county courthouse. A final decision should come by the first half of 2008, he said.

The announcement ended months of intense speculation over the so-called Project Gorilla. Until Wednesday, only a few local and state leaders knew the identify of the firm that has been optioning thousands of acres of farmland northwest of Elk Point, a city of about 1,800.

Phillips said his firm did not want to reveal the project until the bulk of the site had been assembled. The company now has options on about 5,000 acres in an area just east of Interstate 29, but noted the refinery itself will require about 2,000 acres.

"I think with the level of speculation we've been seeing we just felt it was appropriate to come out and announce who we were and announce what we were trying to do,'' he said.

Though the company has not settled on a location, Phillips said Hyperion has "high hopes'' for the southeastern South Dakota site.

"We certainly hope it's wanted here,'' he said.

The refinery would turn about 400,000 barrels of crude oil per day from Canada into ultra-low sulfar gasoline and diesel fuel. Richard Benda, secretary of the South Dakota Department and Tourism and State Development, said the output would meet the combined demands of Iowa, Nebraska and South Dakota.

Described as the most "environmentally sound energy center in the country,'' the refinery would protect the environment by using cutting-edge technology that would keep carbon dioxide from entering the atmosphere.

"This is not your grandfather's refinery,'' Benda told an audience of more than 200 who packed a community room at the courthouse.

If completed, the plant would be the first U.S. refinery built since 1976. Hyperion officials said America needs additional refining capacity to keep up with growing demand for gas and diesel and reduce depency on foreign oil.

The crude oil for the refinery would come from Canada. Phillips said there are several options for getting the crude from up north, including the proposed Keystone pipeline scheduled to run through eastern South Dakota.

If you have information to share on this project, please e-mail the Journal at frontdoor@siouxcityjournal.com.

Watch for further updates at siouxcityjournal.com and in Thursday's Sioux City Journal.


Read the comments, people have screwed up priorities. Sioux City has been on the economic down climb like much of Iowa becasue of the 1980's ag crisis and the 1990's meat packing consolidations.
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atomd

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2008, 05:29:25 AM »
Thank goodness I won't have to deal with this problem. I was just out back shootin at some food and up through the ground came a bubblin crude!

mfree

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Re: Gas headed for $10 gallon
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 06:01:01 AM »
Why is it that every time the gas prices get high someone says "our government blah blah".

What exactly should our government have to do with the price of a freely bought and sold commodity?