Not giving up... but what ARE the options?

[Balog]

I know it's illegal in Germany. A German family got political asylum in the US a month or so ago for that reason.

I know, been following that. The Swiss took a kid away from his parents when they tried to leave the country so they could homeschool him.

[mellestad]

I like the part where pdb says you should kill people if politics doesn't go our way.  Here I was under the mistaken impression we had a political system designed so that you didn't have to kill people to participate in the political process.  I was also under the impression that we had certain things nailed down in the Constitution so that even if things don't go your way, it won't get so bad that you feel the need to kill fellow citizens because they disagree with you.

But I guess it is pretty horrible right now, what with the Feds rounding us up for internment camps, soldiers being housed in our homes, trials without the option of a jury and having our right to vote taken away while the Supreme Court says none of us can own a gun anymore.  The nerve of all those congress critters, not respecting the law of mob rule...it makes me a little ill.

 

[Balog]

You are aware of the causes of the revolution that founded this country, yes?

[mellestad]

You are aware of the causes of the revolution that founded this country, yes?

Yes, King George promised universal health care coverage, and George Washington said, "Give me private health care, or give me death."

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The nerve of all those congress critters, not respecting the law of mob rule...it makes me a little ill.

 

I'd be satisfied if congress critters followed the supreme law of the land.

[mellestad]

I apologize for the snarkiness, but I am on a lot of forums, and this is the only one where people go from zero to "let's kill everyone who disagrees with us" if a mod turns their back for five minutes.

[Balog]

Do you continually misrepresent the opinions expressed by those who disagree with you on all your other forums too, or do you save that little treat for us?

[mellestad]

I'd be satisfied if congress critters followed the supreme law of the land.

As long as they can be voted out of office by their constituants, the power still resides in the hands of the American people.  We are a Republic, not a Democracy...that means congress critters can do things their voters don't like.  I don't know what else to tell ya'.  In another thread last week, the Texas school book one, people were happy that the books were not simply calling America a pure Democracy anymore.

If it is so bad and it will ruin America, they will be ousted and it can be overturned.  If it doesn't turn out to be so bad, they won't be.

[mellestad]

Do you continually misrepresent the opinions expressed by those who disagree with you on all your other forums too, or do you save that little treat for us?

How am I mis-representing you?  I just read a linked blog where the guy is talking about how he wants conservative 'ass-kickers' to get things 'fixed' even if that means 'sharpening knives and loading magazines'.  Am I just confused?

[Balog]

People who assume "It can't happen here" about economic collapse ala Argentina are funny, in a pathetic way. Those who refuse to learn from history and all that...

[Ben]

I think I heard that restriction only applies to beachfront property.  Not property in general.  But I haven't researched it.

Goes inland as well AFAIK. My niece's boyfriend is Mexican. Actually he had US citizenship, but his dad wanted to give him some land by a lake, and in order for him to receive it, he had to go the dual citizenship route, which he said was really easy on the Mexican end, apparently because his parents are both Mexican citizens. Having not applied for dual citizenship, he wouldn't have had a right to own the land.

[mellestad]

People who assume "It can't happen here" about economic collapse ala Argentina are funny, in a pathetic way. Those who refuse to learn from history and all that...

Who said anything about that?  Were you writing to someone else?

[Fjolnirsson]

Am I just confused?

Judging by most of the posts I have read from you since you joined here, yes. Yes you are.

[Balog]

How am I mis-representing you?  I just read a linked blog where the guy is talking about how he wants conservative 'ass-kickers' to get things 'fixed' even if that means 'sharpening knives and loading magazines'.  Am I just confused?

1. Ever heard of the term "metaphor?"

2. If you don't like talk of violent revolution should fed.gov cross a certain line, you must hate reading the Founders. Oh wait, I forgot you're a liberal! Of course you'd hate reading the Founders...

3. No one is saying "Let's kill everyone who disagrees with us" as you contend. Some people are saying violence may occur if fed.gov goes too far. And I'm not one of them, btw.

Who said anything about that?  Were you writing to someone else?

You continually post about how lovely and wonderful SS/Medi-cair & caid/Obamacare are. If anyone raises the point that we can't contnually spend trillions we don't have, you accuse them of being a loon.

[mellestad]

1. Ever heard of the term "metaphor?"

2. If you don't like talk of violent revolution should fed.gov cross a certain line, you must hate reading the Founders. Oh wait, I forgot you're a liberal! Of course you'd hate reading the Founders...

3. No one is saying "Let's kill everyone who disagrees with us" as you contend. Some people are saying violence may occur if fed.gov goes too far. And I'm not one of them, btw.

You continually post about how lovely and wonderful SS/Medi-cair & caid/Obamacare are. If anyone raises the point that we can't contnually spend trillions we don't have, you accuse them of being a loon.

1. Explain the metaphor: "I don’t care if we have to rescind this bullshit through the courts, elections, legislative tomfoolery or outright violence, but this travesty will not stand. It is my responsibility as a father and duty as a free man, and I am proud to bear it."

2. The current system is not what the founding fathers revolted about.  Please don't be melodramatic.

3. I never accused you of saying that.  But how, exactly, is “violence may occur” different that “killing people who disagree with us”?

4. By all means, please locate the post where I support any of those programs.  I’ll wait.

[mellestad]

Judging by most of the posts I have read from you since you joined here, yes. Yes you are.

Lol, yea I know, I'm atypical.  I just think people can be part of the political process, and disagree, without all the melodrama I see here so often.

[mellestad]

Anyway, I'm out for the day.  If this thread survives the night I'll try to check it tomorrow.

[Jamisjockey]

How am I mis-representing you?  I just read a linked blog where the guy is talking about how he wants conservative 'ass-kickers' to get things 'fixed' even if that means 'sharpening knives and loading magazines'.  Am I just confused?

And why praytell are you dragging the little blog into this discussion?  It was going fine until you did that. 
Trolling is a great way to get the jack-boot.

[Ryan in Maine]

I could get used to Taiwan.

Rather not leave the country I was raised in and shaped from though. 

[Jamisjockey]

Chile

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/09/17/why-chile-is-more-economically-free-than-the-united-states/

Then there is this...
http://www.heritage.org/Index/


Of course, those are all economic issues.  You have the right to make money and maybe not pay as much in taxes, but maybe not the personal fredoms such as firearm ownership we're used to.

[French G.]

I was also under the impression that we had certain things nailed down in the Constitution so that even if things don't go your way, it won't get so bad that you feel the need to kill fellow citizens because they disagree with you.

There's the rub. For the last 80 years, some would say (me) 150 years the people that hate the idea of America as a federalist republic have ripped the Constitution off of that nail, wiped their bum with it, set it on fire and then done a joyful dance in the ashes and stench. I try to remain level headed, but you know what? Despite your character assassinations of pretty much everyone on this forum but yourself, I'll go ahead and say I have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution numerous times. I believe that crap too!

It may not be too late for America, but it won't be saved by a 5-4 Supreme Court, or electing a few RINOs. We may well have to have armed resistance or at least the credible threat of it to return the Constitution to its rightful place. The  2A might actually save our bacon yet, hopefully with no shots fired. But there is a critical mass here, a massive movement that this health bill is part of, to get enough people on the take to ensure de facto one party rule. So, it's pretty meaningless for you to smugly suggest that we can fix this through the democratic process. This is just another step to gut the divided powers of the republic and render that process moot. Mob rule, or more precisely the appearance of mob rule is precisely what the left wants. Give everyone hand-outs, direct democracy, the tyranny of the majority.  It's coming.

Awkward time indeed.

[GigaBuist]

Meh, I'm not too terribly concerned.  I'm hoping the state exchanges and opening up purchasing of policies across state lines will offset the natural increase in premiums that the new requirements will require.

At least it's going to be a slow implementation so we can adapt it as pieces fall into place.

[Inor]

There's the rub. For the last 80 years, some would say (me) 150 years the people that hate the idea of America as a federalist republic have ripped the Constitution off of that nail, wiped their bum with it, set it on fire and then done a joyful dance in the ashes and stench. I try to remain level headed, but you know what? Despite your character assassinations of pretty much everyone on this forum but yourself, I'll go ahead and say I have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution numerous times. I believe that crap too!

It may not be too late for America, but it won't be saved by a 5-4 Supreme Court, or electing a few RINOs. We may well have to have armed resistance or at least the credible threat of it to return the Constitution to its rightful place. The  2A might actually save our bacon yet, hopefully with no shots fired. But there is a critical mass here, a massive movement that this health bill is part of, to get enough people on the take to ensure de facto one party rule. So, it's pretty meaningless for you to smugly suggest that we can fix this through the democratic process. This is just another step to gut the divided powers of the republic and render that process moot. Mob rule, or more precisely the appearance of mob rule is precisely what the left wants. Give everyone hand-outs, direct democracy, the tyranny of the majority.  It's coming.

Awkward time indeed.

Damn!  You're good!!  Two thumbs way up!

[AJ Dual]

I like the part where pdb says you should kill people if politics doesn't go our way.  Here I was under the mistaken impression we had a political system designed so that you didn't have to kill people to participate in the political process.  I was also under the impression that we had certain things nailed down in the Constitution so that even if things don't go your way, it won't get so bad that you feel the need to kill fellow citizens because they disagree with you.

But I guess it is pretty horrible right now, what with the Feds rounding us up for internment camps, soldiers being housed in our homes, trials without the option of a jury and having our right to vote taken away while the Supreme Court says none of us can own a gun anymore.  The nerve of all those congress critters, not respecting the law of mob rule...it makes me a little ill.

 

I indeed get what you're saying. Take a breath, calm down, consider your options. There is "real oppression" and what happened in Congress yesterday. etc. etc. etc..

OTOH consider this.

Our Founding Fathers started a war and killing their fellow countrymen over what was roughly a 3% tax on tea.

Most of us are familiar with the Stanford prison experiment and the Milgram experiment. Human nature's ugly side exposed, anyone who utters the words "It can't happen here" is WRONG.

The time to start doing "stuff" is before the cattle cars. Of course you look like an extremist nut/terrorist/criminal. Kind of the ultimate catch-22 of history.

[French G.]

Meh, I'm not too terribly concerned.  I'm hoping the state exchanges and opening up purchasing of policies across state lines will offset the natural increase in premiums that the new requirements will require.

At least it's going to be a slow implementation so we can adapt it as pieces fall into place.

That ties to my newest conspiracy theory that popped into my head. Some of the largest buyers of health insurance are state governments. So this disaster makes insurance companies unprofitable. Government steps in ala GM. Fixes everything with our money and of course controls the companies. Now of course rates go up. States can't afford it. Federal gov will of course subsidize the state's costs, provided of course they do everything they are told. I'd call myself crazy, but this is designed to control everything and similar money games have been played over things as mundane as speed limits and highway money.