Tell me about a "West Point" education.

[Stand_watie]

Just curious.

One of my recently favorite authors included in the bio on the book jacket that he was a West Point graduate.

I would assume the obvious, that West Point might have strong programs in areas like engineering, military history, political and military leadership, etc., but other than hearing a commencement congratulation that inferred that a young man who had been accepted at West Point had achieved something worthwhile, I have no knowledge of just how prestigious a school it is (or isn't).

Is a West Point education equivalent to an "Ivy League" school? A second tier school like the "University of (name your favorite)", or what?

[wmenorr67]

I would place a West Point degreee above a Ivy League education.  The education that one would get at any service academy would be second to none.

[Stand_watie]

I would place a West Point degreee above a Ivy League education.  The education that one would get at any service academy would be second to none.

Could you name the other "service academies" that you know of for me?

I can only think of "The Citadel", the "Air Force academy", and that Texas A&M used to be a service academy.

[Phantom Warrior]

The only service academies are the U.S. Military Academy ("West Point", Army), the U.S. Naval Academy (Navy and Marine Corps, my uncle is an alumnus, his daughter (my cousin) is a current student), and the U.S. Air Force Academy.  (Click the links for the corresponding Wikipedia articles.)

The Citadel is NOT a service academy.  It is a military academy type school, but it also includes civilian students and the "cadets" are not required to join the military.

[wmenorr67]

The Coast Guard also has an academy.

[280plus]

Yup CG Academy is located in the lovely town of New London, CT (or maybe Groton, I'm not sure). See, we got cool stuff in CT.  We got subs too.

[Leatherneck]

Over the last 40+ years, I've worked side-by-side with academy graduates of all stripes. Almost without exception they have been fine professionals with an excellent education. Some small percentage have been in the "ring-knocker" mold; i.e., willing to use their academy creds to put themselves in some favored class. They pretty much stand out to all, and soon get their just desserts.

I don't know of anyone who faults the academic program at any of the academies--top-drawer all the way. As witnessed by the 10% or so acceptance rate. They're very competitive.

TC

[Perd Hapley]

Guess you've never enlisted in the military.  If you had, it would be enough to know that they produce officers.   

[Dannyboy]

I'd be more proud to have graduated from a service academy than from Harvard or Yale.

[slzy]

VMI is where Patton started school,and i thik ge. marshall gradiated from there. and stonewall jackson taught school there. in my modest experience and opinion,the graduates of West Point,VMI and The Citadel all turned out professional officers. and,james whistler,edgar allan poe both attended West Point

[Ezekiel]

1. Indoctrination.
2. Automatons.
3. Brainwashed.
4. Subserviant.

"If you go for that..."

[Stand_watie]

Guess you've never enlisted in the military.  If you had, it would be enough to know that they produce officers.   

Actually I was Air Guard for six years. Whether you consider that "military" service or not is up to you. I knew (at the 'aquaintance' level, not the 'friend' level) quite a number of Air Force and several Army officers (actually Air Guard and Army Reserve at that time, but they had almost all been prior active service officers), and I don't recall any of that (let's say several dozen) bunch of folks having mentioned having been to a service academy. I know for sure that many of them had been to regular colleges to get their degree education. I'll grant that the Air Force is probably by far the most "civilian" of all the branches, with MD's, DDS's, EE's and CPA's probably far outnumbering battlefield (or battle"air") tacticians, but I've gathered from that, that in the Air Force anyway, officers with an Air Force Academy degree are the exception rather than the rule.

[Perd Hapley]

Oh.  My point was that officers, as every enlisted man knows, are idiots.  

Then there's Ezekiel, who's just into bigotry or hatred or whatever.  Good to know he can think for himself.   

[Stand_watie]

Oh.  My point was that officers, as every enlisted man knows, are idiots.  

Then there's Ezekiel, who's just into bigotry or hatred or whatever.  Good to know he can think for himself.   

I'll say I disagree with Ezekiel, though I won't attempt to interpet his feelings, etc.

Recognizing that your comment regarding officers is partly tongue-in-cheek, and also that it's a common (but not at all unanimous) comment/feeling among Air Force enlisted personell, I'm curious as to your branch of service?

My own impression of officers, is that of my impression of Joe Blow business professional, throwing in there that in general they wisely (if not perfectly) attempt to emulate the senior enlisted men when performing command duties.

To give examples, in general I'd much rather attempt to explain a convoluted supply chain scenario, or a complicated administrative manner to an officer, and if my leg were pinned under a deuce and a half or a water buffalo, to get help from an enlisted guy or gal.

[Stand_watie]

Guess you've never enlisted in the military.  If you had, it would be enough to know that they produce officers.   

Actually I was Air Guard for six years, only (approximately) five months in "active" (all service school training) billets. Whether you consider that "military" service or not is up to you. I knew (at the 'aquaintance' level, not the 'friend' level) quite a number of Air Force and several Army officers (actually Air Guard and Army Reserve at that time, but they had almost all been prior active service officers), and I don't recall any of that (let's say several dozen) bunch of folks having mentioned having been to a service academy. I know for sure that many of them had been to regular colleges to get their degree education. I'll grant that the Air Force is probably by far the most "civilian" of all the branches, with MD's, DDS's, EE's and CPA's probably far outnumbering battlefield (or battle"air") tacticians, but I've gathered from that, that in the Air Force anyway, officers with an Air Force Academy degree are the exception rather than the rule.

[cosine]

My point was that officers, as every enlisted man knows, are idiots.   

I just want to let you know, fistful, I'm filing all statements like these away for future blackmail reference, just I case I do join the ROTC someday.

Hmm, now, that raises the distinct possibility of you someday discovering that you're not my friend anymore.



(I kid, I jest...)

[Bogie]

People don't get admitted into the 'point because they're stupid. It's a tough school, and even tougher because it's military.
 
In addition, people, regardless of who their families are/they may know are not trained as pilots or put into situations where they are commanding others who may go into harm's way unless they are competent. There are varying degrees of competency, but they all have my great respect.
 

 

[Perd Hapley]

I was Army, and my comments are entirely tongue-in-cheek, just like all my disparaging remarks about squids, Marines, etc.  The Air Force I generally don't insult as we Army-types are too far above them to even notice they exist.   

cosine, please, like I want to be friends with an officer, anyway. 

It is odd how the military puts fresh-faced college grads in charge of units that are actually run by more experienced NCO's who in some cases have no college degree.  Not to say the NCO's aren't expected to get degrees also. 

[cosine]

The Air Force I generally don't insult as we Army-types are too far above them to even notice they exist.    

Huh. Sure, maybe figuratively. But in reality, who's above the other? Ha!   

[Stand_watie]

..It is odd how the military puts fresh-faced college grads in charge of units that are actually run by more experienced NCO's who in some cases have no college degree.  Not to say the NCO's aren't expected to get degrees also. 

But the reality is that (in my experience) the "fresh-faced college grads" (the 90% of them who have a little bit of common sense) are letting the senior NCO's run things, and

A) are doing the more complicated paperwork that you atually need a college education to figure out

B) giving exhortative speeches on topics "suggested" to them by their senior NCO's

C) are figuring out orders from higher ranking officers and translating them to the senior NCO's

The better of those officers stay in the military and are promoted to continually higher command billets, the lesser go into private businesses and either learn anew and advance or get stuck in HR, or go to the Pentagon and learn how to be DC beaurocrats.

Those in the "technical" fields are just about exactly like the civilian versions of themselves, IMHO. For example, an Air Force MD will be as good a doctor as he'd be as a civilian, he has a lesser pay, but a more stable clientel, and fewer worries of liability.

[Phantom Warrior]

1. Indoctrination.
2. Automatons.
3. Brainwashed.
4. Subserviant.

*snicker*

Yeah, those are the kinds of words that come to mind when I think of the "Happy Ranger", "Stank", and all the other West Point grads running around here.  (names changed to protect the innocent).  These are the guys that came up with the coolness points board and gave the battalion commander the lowest score.  Brainwashed automatons, my ass.

The better of those officers stay in the military and are promoted to continually higher command billets, the lesser go into private businesses and either learn anew and advance or get stuck in HR, or go to the Pentagon and learn how to be DC beaurocrats.

Maybe things are different in the Reserves.  Believe me, some of the best active duty officers I know are getting out of the Army.  The deployment schedule is part of it, but the amount of dumb in the Army doesn't help.  And believe me, command billets have NOTHING to do with being a good officer.

[Perd Hapley]

But the reality is that (in my experience) the "fresh-faced college grads" (the 90% of them who have a little bit of common sense) are letting the senior NCO's run things,

Yeah, that's the odd thing about it.  "Here, you're in charge, now run this platoon just like Sarge tells you to."  It's a mentoring system, in a way, but a very odd one. 

[Ezekiel]

I'm merely pointing out that the majority of information I've found -- I was quite curious -- indicates that you are, decidedly, unallowed to think during your first year, that there is a strict caste system, individual thought is verboten and adherence to a rigid/inflexible "code" is the norm.

Hence:

1. Indoctrination.
2. Automatons.
3. Brainwashed.
4. Subserviant.

Merely a single point of view.

[Jamisjockey]

I'm merely pointing out that the majority of information I've found -- I was quite curious -- indicates that you are, decidedly, unallowed to think during your first year, that there is a strict caste system, individual thought is verboten and adherence to a rigid/inflexible "code" is the norm.

Hence:

1. Indoctrination.
2. Automatons.
3. Brainwashed.
4. Subserviant.

Merely a single point of view.

A military cannot be effective if its not of collective thought and action.  If someone is innovative and finds ways to make the military more effective, they are rewarded. 

[Perd Hapley]

I'm merely pointing out that the majority of information I've found....Merely a single point of view.

Then I apologize.  I took it to be the same left-wing knee-jerk response that always comes out of you when the military is mentioned.  It's obvious who's been brainwashed.