Author Topic: Indiana Suprime Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home  (Read 8087 times)

Sindawe

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http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html

Indiana's Suprime Idiots in Black Dresses have ruled 3-2 that if the police want to enter your home for any reason, or no reason at all you the homeowner or occupant have no right to resist even an unlawfull entry.

Oh, and earlier this week these same clowns ruled 5-0 that police can consider any warrant a "No-knock" warrant if "exigent circumstances justify it".

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/indiana/article_be2cbb59-e508-53ab-989a-a23a6d1d8b23.html

 :facepalm:

Any questions on how long before the same group of people who feel their lives are threatened by fleeing dogs and elderly cats seize apon these rulings and urge likewise in other states?

Paging Ms. Clare Wolfe, you have phone call to check the time.  [ar15]

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Matthew Carberry

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Sounds like the Indiana legislature needs to act.

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AZRedhawk44

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Paging Ms. Clare Wolfe, you have phone call to check the time.  [ar15]


Lol.  I was wondering when the first reference to "awkward" stages would come.
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MechAg94

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I guess there is also supposed to be some sort of cop radar to know who these people are even if they are in plain clothes also.
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MechAg94

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Quote
"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest."
This is really really broad and would seem to me to go against all sorts of precedent solely because, IN THEIR OWN OPINION, it isn't a good idea.  

Quote
The court's decision stems from a Vanderburgh County case in which police were called to investigate a husband and wife arguing outside their apartment.

When the couple went back inside their apartment, the husband told police they were not needed and blocked the doorway so they could not enter. When an officer entered anyway, the husband shoved the officer against a wall. A second officer then used a stun gun on the husband and arrested him.

Professor Ivan Bodensteiner, of Valparaiso University School of Law, said the court's decision is consistent with the idea of preventing violence.
First, this is a very weird case for establishing this sort of precedence.  
Second, who is this Idiot Professor who thinks that a court's job is to prevent violence.  If that is their goal, they should also rule that police in Indiana are not allowed to carry weapons of any kind.  
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Doggy Daddy

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Let's start a pool on how many posts it'll take before someone defends this in the name of officer safety and "going home at night."
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AZRedhawk44

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Jason Russell (Monotomy, MA Jan 25th, 1716 - April 19th, 1775) is spinning in his grave.

"An Englishman's home is his castle."

Died at the bloodiest fighting on Battle Road during the Lexington/Concord battle, defending his home from Lord General Percy's soldiers, along with 11 other New England militia men.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

just Warren

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At some point this sort of thing is going to engender a movement to disband police agencies. The reason is that it will occur to many people that the cure (cops) is worse than the disease (crime).

They can break into your house, ruin your life or kill you (or your dog), they're not generally that effective at preventing crime or catching criminals, there are near-daily reports of innocent people being hassled or wrongful arrests, and with their benefits packages they cost a lot.

The cost-benefit analysis in many folk's minds will shift soon and not in a good way for the police.

For the usual reasons I'm not advocating violence in any way. And it need not be violent. It is my sincere hope that this is a peaceful process.
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RoadKingLarry

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It was a crappy case to start with but he ruling is an abomination.
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MicroBalrog

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It is not the place of the judge to rule based on his policy preferences.
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Tallpine

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At some point this sort of thing is going to engender a movement to disband police agencies. The reason is that it will occur to many people that the cure (cops) is worse than the disease (crime).

So others are noticing this too  ;)
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MicroBalrog

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Society existed rather well before the existence of modern policing. It will continue to exist after.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Tallpine

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Seems to me that police exist to enforce government edicts far more than protecting folks' lives and property.

 =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

roo_ster

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At some point this sort of thing is going to engender a movement to disband police agencies. The reason is that it will occur to many people that the cure (cops) is worse than the disease (crime).

They can break into your house, ruin your life or kill you (or your dog), they're not generally that effective at preventing crime or catching criminals, there are near-daily reports of innocent people being hassled or wrongful arrests, and with their benefits packages they cost a lot.

The cost-benefit analysis in many folk's minds will shift soon and not in a good way for the police.

For the usual reasons I'm not advocating violence in any way. And it need not be violent. It is my sincere hope that this is a peaceful process.

Most places, I'd argue, the local cops are a force for order and moral good.  Other places, they are just another criminal gang.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that I'd want LEOs to do that could not be contracted out (since I believe that all citizens, LEO or otherwise, ought to have the same arrest powers, liabilities, etc.).

Society existed rather well before the existence of modern policing. It will continue to exist after.

Not just society, but civil society with everything that made the West great.
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roo_ster

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roo_ster

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Seems to me that police exist to enforce government edicts far more than protecting folks' lives and property.

 =(

If/when that occurs, it is time to disband them.
Regards,

roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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We laugh at Britain's unarmed Bobby, but we must remember that when thte concept was originally invented, it was not invented by the people who rule today's Britain. It was invented by the people who forged a mighty Empire, carried handguns in .455 as they went about their daily rounds, and were happy to provide their law enforcement with fire support if it was needed.
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RevDisk

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At some point this sort of thing is going to engender a movement to disband police agencies. The reason is that it will occur to many people that the cure (cops) is worse than the disease (crime).

Ah.  Already happening here in PA.  More and more towns are quietly disbanding their local police and handing matters over to the State Police.  Crime rates have stayed about the same or dropped. 


Quote
Seems to me that police exist to enforce government edicts far more than protecting folks' lives and property.

If/when that occurs, it is time to disband them.

blinks 

I am unaware of any departments that believed otherwise, Rooster.  I know individual officers that believe in protecting people over edicts, but exactly zero departments.  I didn't think this was a new trend, I automatically assumed it was universal...  because it has been the case everywhere that I've ever been. 

Every law enforcement group I'm aware of is dedicated to protection of "the community", not and never individuals.  And by community, they mean whoever pays them and to whom they are directly responsible.  Buddies of mine in NCIS see themselves as protecting the Navy, not the individual sailors.  Local cops enforce ordinances regardless of their legality or morality against citizens, because their paycheck comes from the municipality that sets these ordinances.  You could argue that their paycheck ultimately comes from the citizenry, which is true, but that is a conceptional thing rather than the every day perception.  And perception defines reality at the end of the day.

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MicroBalrog

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Quote
Ah.  Already happening here in PA.  More and more towns are quietly disbanding their local police and handing matters over to the State Police.  Crime rates have stayed about the same or dropped. 

I don't think you see where we are going with this.

I am having the vision of an abolition, or very serious alteration, of the very concept of patrol police.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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RevDisk

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I don't think you see where we are going with this.

I am having the vision of an abolition, or very serious alteration, of the very concept of patrol police.

That's what we're seeing.  For economic reasons.  Locals cut the local police, county police mostly do warrants from judges (liens, divorce stuff, sheriffs sales, etc), and state police respond to the real problems. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

MillCreek

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^^^ Interesting.  Here in Washington (and a lot of other Western states, now that I think about it), the state police is almost exclusively for traffic enforcement.  They don't really do much else in the way of law enforcement, unless it is in the context of emergency mutual aid and the like.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Jamie B

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Indiana can go spit.

No crack or coke sales in this house, so early morning entry will not go well at all for them.

Defense of home, self, and family.
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Ned Hamford

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Found an article in defense of the ruling. 

http://stubbornfacts.us/law/barnes_v_indiana_and_overreaction

"Are we now so paranoid about the Obama administration—granted, that most aspirational of Presidents—that some folks don't see this as a case about drug dealers, abusers, and drunken idiots opening fire on the police, but themselves, heroically resisting marauding federal Sardaukar invading our homes? That seems uncharitable, but I can't imagine anything else that would justify Barnes' critics advocating, in effect, a wild west "shoot first" rule. We shouldn't put our police in greater danger every day simply because some folks fantasize that any day now, the day black helicopters will descend to take our guns and impose tyranny."

My rating of its author has plummeted drastically with this article.  While now a US citizen, he seems to have retained his notion of the agents of the crown.
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Tallpine

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http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w212.html
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Hobie

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I think it is quite funny that we weren't paranoid enough about Bush-43 and the Patriot Act but we are loonies for being paranoid about Obama. 
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Hobie
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Tallpine

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I think it is quite funny that we weren't paranoid enough about Bush-43 and the Patriot Act but we are loonies for being paranoid about Obama. 

Yeah, I was a "leftist" and "bush hater" back then, but now I am a "right wing nut" or something...  ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin