So now what?

[Inor]

So, now that it seems we are going to be stuck with Peebocare against the wishes of the vast majority of the American people (one poll I saw today had it as high as 76% against), what happens next?

Does the rage that I saw firsthand at the Kill the Bill rally last Saturday in St. Paul, just go away?  Most of us Conservatives are very busy already doing our jobs, running small businesses, taking care of our families, etc.  We do not have the time or the energy to keep up the pace from the last year for too long.

Do we just "suck it up" for now and work harder for less in hopes that we can change things somewhat in November?  And then, hope the new people we elect will somehow be able to roll this whole mess back (highly unlikely)?

Do we start floating the idea publicly of a tax revolt like we did in 1993?  That is "go Galt" in an attempt to try and starve the government out of all this crazy spend and takeover nonsense.

Or does this start to get really physically ugly?

I am just curious of some of your thoughts.

[RevDisk]

Or we can calm down and elect folks who promise to gut this legislation.  Unless it's in the Constitution, it can be repealed at any time. 

Besides, it ain't over yet. Assuming it passes, it still has to survive the court battle. 

[Perd Hapley]

Oh, definition 4. 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=peebo


I thought he was talking about this Peebo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peabo_Bryson

[charby]

I don't think its going to pass tomorrow, too many politicians are worried about being relected, especially if they do a roll call vote.

I think many see that Nancy Pelosi is punch drunk crazy.

[Gowen]

If this thing passes, it will be another third rail.  It will suddenly be a right of every American to have health care and Social Security, even when it bankrupts the country.

[Perd Hapley]

If this thing passes, it will be another third rail.  It will suddenly be a right of every American to have health care and Social Security, even when it bankrupts the country.

Ya know, I'm not as convinced of that as I used to be.  This "reform" has been so unpopular for so long, the next Congress might be persuaded to kill it.  Especially if they are newly-elected replacements of the goons that voted for it.  If we apply enough pressure. 

Also, from what I'm told no benefits kick in for a few years; only the taxes to pay for them.

[Inor]

Or we can calm down and elect folks who promise to gut this legislation.  Unless it's in the Constitution, it can be repealed at any time. 

Besides, it ain't over yet. Assuming it passes, it still has to survive the court battle. 

Sorry Rev, I do not mean to sound disagreeable especially since I think we are on the same team.  But there has NEVER been an entitlement program that has been completely repealed by Congress in the history of the Republic.  Once this thing passes, and at least some portion of it gets through the courts, our grandkids are stuck with it.

Please understand, I am ABSOLUTELY NOT advocating violence.  But I am starting to think using the tax code against them might be the only way we can stop all of the madness that has been pushed on our Republic since 1912.

[RocketMan]

fisty, for the next Congress to repeal ObamaCare would require a veto-proof majority.  Not going to happen (even assuming you could persuade the scoundrels to pass the repealing legislation in the first place).

[Monkeyleg]

The Supremes rule that forcing people to buy health insurance is unconstitutional. The health insurance plan loses a big chunk of its funding.

Meanwhile, a new Republican majority pushes for a repeal of the law because it can't be paid for without raising taxes or further increasing the deficit. If they keep the anger alive, there may be Democrat defectors to override an Obama veto.

Another scenario is that the Supremes rule it unconstitutional by 2013, and a Republican house, senate and president repeal it.

Remember, most of the so-called benefits don't kick in until later this decade.

[RocketMan]

Remember, most of the so-called benefits don't kick in until later this decade.

But many of the taxes to fund it kick in immediately.  Oh, joy...

[Perd Hapley]

But many of the taxes to fund it kick in immediately.  Oh, joy...

Making it a little easier to repeal. 

Still, you make a good point. 

[RevDisk]

Sorry Rev, I do not mean to sound disagreeable especially since I think we are on the same team.  But there has NEVER been an entitlement program that has been completely repealed by Congress in the history of the Republic.  Once this thing passes, and at least some portion of it gets through the courts, our grandkids are stuck with it.

So work harder.

Gun rights have been steadily chipped away since US vs Miller.  We were faced with cry and accept defeat, or work hard to turn the tide.  Well, it took an insane amount of work, but we have concealed carry in the overwhelming majority of states.  Heller is done, McDonald is virtually done, we just need judicial review.  Then we can go gangbusters.

Not saying it will be cheap or easy, but it is entirely possible without resorting to "man the barricades" theoretical scenarios.

[Perd Hapley]

Not saying it will be cheap or easy, but it is entirely possible without resorting to "man the barricades" theoretical scenarios.

Then what do we need the guns for?   

[MicroBalrog]

Sorry Rev, I do not mean to sound disagreeable especially since I think we are on the same team.  But there has NEVER been an entitlement program that has been completely repealed by Congress in the history of the Republic.  Once this thing passes, and at least some portion of it gets through the courts, our grandkids are stuck with it.

Then surrender immediately.

Here's the thing:

If the already existing welfare state is allowed to persist and is never challenged, it will inevitably grow. If you resign yourself to believing that the current system is forever and never even fight it, it will  grow and it will strangle you.

It does not matter if you defeat this bill or not - because the government is already huge, and if you resign yourself to the current state of affairs, then it will grow and grow and grow. And every time a new bit is added, the leftists will gloat: "But you can't repeal it! This is forever!"

Well no. We can repeal everything. Everything is up for grabs.

Slavery and the Prohibition and the draft were repealed. This too shall pass.

[lupinus]

First it has a huge court battle. 38 states already have briefs prepared to file in court the second this obomination passes. Assuming the courts rule rightly there's a lot in this bill that will be removed and what will be left will be severely gutted if the entire thing isn't just thrown out.

Also, dems made a huge mistake in waiting four years for any noticeable benefit for anyone to kick in. It's completely vulnerable until then as no one is dependent on it, so it's not a third rail. Even after four years it will take time to progressively get enough enough people dependent that it becomes a no touch issue.

[Jamisjockey]

Besides Urban Dictionary, I can't find a reference to that nickname anywhere on the 'net, and have never heard it.  Please refer to the forum rules stickied at the top of the board. 

[Chester32141]

Do any of y'all think that there will be a Republican vote for Obamacare ?

[Tallpine]

Breakup of the Republic ?   

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Slavery and the Prohibition and the draft were repealed. This too shall pass.

Easy for you to say.  You're not the one in the trenches here fighting to prevent this trash.  You're not the one who stands to lose a multi-generation family business if you fail to prevent this trash.  You aren't the one who's going to lose his health care, or his wife's health care, after this trash passes.

This too shall pass.  At what cost?  For a lot of us, politics isn't just an interesting internet debate topic any more. 

Your cavalier attitude towards repealing this stuff is aggravating.  Inor is right, once this sort of thing gets entrenched it's a safe bet that generations of people in the future will still be saddled with it.  We can work on repealing it, work like hell, but Inor knows the truth of the matter.  This stuff just doesn't go away.

[Daniel964]

Yes I do. Their are always plenty of RINO's.

[Perd Hapley]

Meh.  I think you're both right, you're just talking past each other.  I don't think MB really thinks it will be a cakewalk to repeal, and it's obvious that HTG hasn't accepted the social safety net as a bedrock certainty.


HTG, good job on the activism.  Thanks.

[RevDisk]

Easy for you to say.  You're not the one in the trenches here fighting to prevent this trash.  You're not the one who stands to lose a multi-generation family business if you fail to prevent this trash.  You aren't the one who's going to lose his health care, or his wife's health care, after this trash passes.

This too shall pass.  At what cost?  For a lot of us, politics isn't just an interesting internet debate topic any more.  

Your cavalier attitude towards repealing this stuff is aggravating.  Inor is right, once this sort of thing gets entrenched it's a safe bet that generations of people in the future will still be saddled with it.  We can work on repealing it, work like hell, but Inor knows the truth of the matter.  This stuff just doesn't go away.

Respectfully...  MB lives in a socialist slash light communist hell, the depths of which you will never understand and every American should thank their respective deity for every single day for the fact that we have never experienced it.  The closest analogy I can think of is imagine the US controlled by a coalition of the Taliban, the Communist Party and the most hardcore anti-capitalist European socialists.

Compared to being legally ordered to carry identification documenting your religion, laws forbidding you to marry outside your ethnic group and a 73% tax is considered quite moderate, I'm quite sure a lot of our issues seem quite a bit more mundane.  Not to say we shouldn't be crushing socialism and neofeudalism whenever possible.

[Perd Hapley]

socialism and neofeudalism

Is there a difference? 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Nevermind

[Inor]

So work harder.

I am not saying we should not continue to work to elect politicians who will try to roll these programs back.  But thanks to the 17th and 26th Amendments to the Constitution, our government is closer to a Democracy than it is the original Republic.  I read recently, and I cannot recall the source (sorry), that almost 53% of people are already recieving some kind of government subsidy either directly or through their employer.  Do you honestly believe that you are going to convince these folks to vote for the politician that is going to take away their subsidy?

Eighteen years ago, I started a small business.  I have built it to be moderately successful.  If I do an orderly shutdown now, 15 people will lose their jobs, but my wife and I will be left with enough assets to live the rest of our lives in decent shape.  If I "work harder" and keep it going, I will continue to pay a huge amount of tax to a government that is increasingly hostile towards me.