Author Topic: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."  (Read 5118 times)

MicroBalrog

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UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« on: June 15, 2008, 10:51:06 PM »
Now the counter terrorism bill will in all probability be rejected by the House of Lords very firmly. After all, what should they be there for if not to defend Magna Carta.

But because the impetus behind this is essentially political - not security - the government will be tempted to use the Parliament Act to over-rule the Lords. It has no democratic mandate to do this since 42 days was not in its manifesto.

Its legal basis is uncertain to say the least. But purely for political reasons, this government's going to do that. And because the generic security arguments relied on will never go away - technology, development and complexity and so on, we'll next see 56 days, 70 days, 90 days.

But in truth, 42 days is just one - perhaps the most salient example - of the insidious, surreptitious and relentless erosion of fundamental British freedoms.

And we will have shortly, the most intrusive identity card system in the world.

A CCTV camera for every 14 citizens, a DNA database bigger than any dictatorship has, with 1000s of innocent children and a million innocent citizens on it.

We have witnessed an assault on jury trials - that bulwark against bad law and its arbitrary use by the state. Short cuts with our justice system that make our system neither firm not fair.

And the creation of a database state opening up our private lives to the prying eyes of official snoopers and exposing our personal data to careless civil servants and criminal hackers.

The state has security powers to clamp down on peaceful protest and so-called hate laws that stifle legitimate debate - while those who incite violence get off scot-free.

This cannot go on, it must be stopped. And for that reason, I feel that today it's incumbent on me to take a stand.

I will be resigning my membership of the House and I intend to force a by-election in Haltemprice and Howden.

- David Davis MP
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2008, 11:03:09 PM »
Quote
The state has security powers to clamp down on peaceful protest and so-called hate laws that stifle legitimate debate - while those who incite violence get off scot-free.

This is as important as the ID issue.

The laws there favor the criminal and the unreasonable. While it seems to be "hate" to make a peep about honor killings, it's not "hate" for people to march about London with signs saying "behead" and "Europe, your 9/11 is on its way". Just as it's not criminal for someone to break into a house, it's criminal if the homeowner defends it with any sort of force.

They'd rather put cameras on the law-abiding citizens than punish the criminals and tell the unreasonable to accept British customs and behave accordingly or leave. I think they're a little off.

MicroBalrog

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2008, 11:07:35 PM »
My father used to tell a story about how he was a college student in the USSR, and was sent on a trip to one of the Socialist Republics. He encountered local students, and obviously much vodka was consumed. In the process, he told them that "In Soviet Russia, we carry passports which list our name, ethnicity, and address."

They did not believe him, and proceeded to wager various amounts of alcohol on it not being true. He naturally won the bet, but the point is - this was not believable to people in Eastern Europe in the late 1960's.

Today, this is reality in Britain.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

41magsnub

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 06:21:43 AM »
I'm usually not one of the folks screaming "1984!  1984!" but damn if Wells might not have been on to something, just 25 years off on the date.

The Annoyed Man

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 06:47:52 AM »
And this is exactly the direction a third Bush term McCain administration would go.

Tallpine

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 06:48:29 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

41magsnub

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 06:52:52 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Tallpine

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 07:01:05 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

MicroBalrog

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 07:08:45 AM »
And this is exactly the direction a McCain or Obama administration would go.

Fix'd.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MechAg94

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 07:22:19 AM »
Yeah, I was thinking that also.  If you think McCain will take us there, please remember that the Dems are looking the same direction.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

41magsnub

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 08:03:54 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy

I just re-read both books last year hence the confusion...

Tallpine

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 08:56:46 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy

I just re-read both books last year hence the confusion...

Here I hand you a joke on myself, and it flies right by ....

H.G. Wells wrote WOTW (unless I am really mixed up)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

41magsnub

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 09:24:15 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy

I just re-read both books last year hence the confusion...

Here I hand you a joke on myself, and it flies right by ....

H.G. Wells wrote WOTW (unless I am really mixed up)

Whoosh...   <- That is the sound of joke going right over my head until you explained it.

The Annoyed Man

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 09:35:19 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy

I just re-read both books last year hence the confusion...

Here I hand you a joke on myself, and it flies right by ....

H.G. Wells wrote WOTW (unless I am really mixed up)

Whoosh...   <- That is the sound of joke going right over my head until you explained it.
H.G Wells wrote War Of The Worlds, Orson Welles later made it into a radio show that caused quite a lot of panic and confusion when he led the listeners to believe that Earth really had been invaded laugh.

Marnoot

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 10:10:04 AM »
Wells, Welles, Orwell. War of the Animal Farms?

seeker_two

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 10:12:54 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy

I just re-read both books last year hence the confusion...

Here I hand you a joke on myself, and it flies right by ....

H.G. Wells wrote WOTW (unless I am really mixed up)

Then what did Dawn Wells write?....  undecided
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

41magsnub

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2008, 10:22:58 AM »
"Orwell" not "Wells" Wink

IIRC, his real name was Blair.

er..  yeah.  I knew that.  It was a test or something.  yeah.  No memory for names.

Orson Wells wrote "War of the Worlds"  Cheesy

I just re-read both books last year hence the confusion...

Here I hand you a joke on myself, and it flies right by ....

H.G. Wells wrote WOTW (unless I am really mixed up)

Then what did Dawn Wells write?....  undecided

Probably something dirty involving Mary Ann and Ginger with Gilligan watching  grin

Tallpine

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2008, 02:09:49 PM »
Quote
Then what did Dawn Wells write?

I dunno, but I went to school with Dawn Jeffory  laugh

For the google impaired: http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0420273/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

The Annoyed Man

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2008, 04:21:12 PM »
And this is exactly the direction a third Bush term McCain administration would go.

What direction will President Obama take us?

cordex

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2008, 05:20:16 AM »
What direction will President Obama take us?
He will take us to Change, through Hope.  I hope that doesn't change.

Hopechange.

Hawkmoon

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2008, 06:11:01 AM »
And this is exactly the direction a third Bush term McCain administration would go.

What direction will President Obama take us?

"Down" is a direction, isn't it?
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Manedwolf

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Re: UK: "This cannot go on. It must be stopped."
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2008, 10:46:08 AM »
What direction will President Obama take us?
He will take us to Change, through Hope.  I hope that doesn't change.

Hopechange.

Hopechange! And don't question it, that'd be doubleplus ungood thought crime.