New Dog, need advice

[The Annoyed Man]

So my parents got a new dog. I helped pick her out and take care of her the last couple days, but I dont live with them, just visiting.

Anyway, she has been very good so far. Adopted from a shelter, 5-6 month mutt, probably with a lot of border collie in her. She is a sweet puppy, is responding well to the whole family and to training so far.

The only thing that is out of the ordinary is her interaction with our resident dog, a 12 year old australian shepherd. He is a sweet old guy, no agression, etc. Him and the new girl get along fairly well. They dont seem to be overly competitive for territory. She thinks hes great fun and he seems to like having a playful new puppy in the house.

This is the first time we have had more than one dog at once, so we are not totaly sure how they should be getting along. The new puppy bites the old man; not hard, but she snips at his ears, knees, face, etc. He doesnt seem to mind, understands the playful nature of it, and plays along for the most part. When he gets tired of it, he ignores her. If she keeps up, he gives her a single bark and she runs off and leaves him alone, at least for a minute or two.

However, in their playing, she seems to get the best of him. Out in the yard, she is tackling him and has him on the run. He is twice her size and not THAT old, so I dont see why he doesnt put her in her place. I understand that one of them is going to be dominant. I guess just because I expect the big male to be the dominant one doesnt mean theres any reason her has to be.

Also, when it comes to toys. I hive him one, and her one. After a minute she abandons hers, and goes after his. So the older male goes to the abandoned toy, chews on it for a minute until the pup comes and takes it back, ad nauseum.

He lets her push him around! Is this somthing we can correct, or do they need to work it out by themselves?

[Balog]

I think this is fairly normal behaviour. Size has nothing to do with dominance, unless both dogs are dominant and it comes to a physical fight.

[Racehorse]

It's very normal. One of our dogs does this to the other all the time. Sometimes the more mellow dog (who is the bigger one, by the way) will decide he's had enough and take what he wants, but usually he just lets the other one have his way.

[ilbob]

sometimes this kind of biting aggression comes from a puppy that was taken away from its mother too soon. puppies don't really understand that nipping other living things is bad until their mother explains it to them. usually this takes about 8 weeks. to save money, unscrupulous dog breeders will try to skimp on that period of time. it can also come from the puppy not being socialized to other dogs at an early age. he may just not realize what he is doing is not acceptable.

[Harold Tuttle]

probably with a lot of border collie in her

+11



meet karma the pseudo bordercollie/terrier

she is a herding dog at heart and abuses other dogs like they are sheep

[lupinus]

Most herding breeds are going to be nippers.  Put them with a group of small children and they will even try and heard the little rugrats together 

As to the dominance it could be that your old dog is so used to being submissive and bottom of the pack that he is used to it and it's just his style.

And good God Harold wtf is that thing 

[seeker_two]

He lets her push him around! Is this somthing we can correct, or do they need to work it out by themselves?

Nope.....he's just as whupped as the rest of us married folk..... 

[GigaBuist]

As to the dominance it could be that your old dog is so used to being submissive and bottom of the pack that he is used to it and it's just his style.

I think it's worth noting that this isn't something that bothers dogs at all.  They find their place in the pack and that's that.  There's no "class envy" to speak of.  When the pack changes they might change leaders, but that's really more of a survival instinct (what's good for the pack is good for the wolves) than an internal desire to become a leader.

But don't quote me on any of that.  I watch a lot of Caesar Milan and I read half his book. I'm no expert.

If the pup's nipping bothers you you'll just have to correct it yourself.  Give 'em a little jab in the neck region, or grab some of the skin there.  If you do it every time the pup goes after the older dog it should stop.

And, since we're talking about dogs, I have to post a gratuitous picture of Chuck Norris:

[Dntsycnt]

And, since we're talking about dogs, I have to post a gratuitous picture of Chuck Norris:

Is he jousting?

[roo_ster]

Our older male & female pup were like that for some time.

The older male, in our case, was very tolerant toward the young female.  But, after the young female became an adult, he re-asserted his dominance and taught her the proper way to interact adult dog to adult dog.

I wouldn't worry about it.  It sounds like your dogs will figure it out.

[Monkeyleg]

Our 12 year-old dog is like that with puppies, too. I think he's just too mellow to play and, as long as a puppy isn't hurting him, he doesn't care.

[The Annoyed Man]

Ok, update!

When they are outside, the playing and nipping is not a problem. They run around, both having fun, etc. The old man enjoys it, and after a few minutes they stop and start doing other things; sniffing around, playing lookout/guard dog through the gaps in the fence, etc.

However, the problem occurs when they are inside. My older dog is getting old. When he lays down or stands up, he kind of groans, for example. When they are inside, the puppy is CONSTANTLY trying to play, but Dallas doesnt want to. He will put up with it for a minute, then bark and snap at her, and she will run off; only to come back to it a minute later.

It has gotten to the point that Dallas can only lay down and relax is when the puppy is in her crate. And another problem is our wood floors. Her favorite thing to do is get between his legs and trip him, which occasionaly results in Dallas sprawling out on the floor in a weird way and yelping. The floors are a but slick. He recovers, but it IS hurting him and we are afraid that he might actualy get injured. It doesnt phase the puppy, who comes back for more a minute later.

The new plan is to teach her that it is not OK to play in the house, only outside. It is more appropriate there anyway, plus the old man has much better footing out there and isnt going to take any spills.

So, if she tries to play inside, she goes in her crate for 10 minutes, and then comes back out. Playing outside goes uncorrected, until she figures out where its allowed.

Hopefully this will work.

On the other hand, she is making really good progress into her potty training, and has only had a couple accidents (our fault for not paying enough attention). She is learning sit/stay/down in a jiffy.

[BlueStarLizzard]

shes a girl and a puppy. both mean that he is predisposed to like her and tolerate her. when she gets older and is no longer puppy, he may put her in her place.

second, traction for old man. hard slick floors are hard on older dogs. takeing steps to make sure he can get around is a good idea.
- make sure his nails are trimmed.
- put down rugs with rubber backing
- you can get little stickers that go on his pads and provide traction.

the groans indicate arthritis. depending on how stiff he is you may want to talk to your vet about pain killers, like deramax, kinda like doggy tylonal.

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks for the tips bluestarlizard

I will run the traction ideas by my parents. We trim his nails but Ive never heard of those other options, doubt they have either.

As far as the arthritis, I dont think it is very bad. He is still very active, and it doesnt seem to bother him much.

[GigaBuist]

So, if she tries to play inside, she goes in her crate for 10 minutes

The crate is their den.  It's their happy place.  The dog doesn't, or at least shouldn't, see being put in there as punishment.  She's not going to realize she's being punished.

[roo_ster]

Thanks for the tips bluestarlizard

I will run the traction ideas by my parents. We trim his nails but Ive never heard of those other options, doubt they have either.

As far as the arthritis, I dont think it is very bad. He is still very active, and it doesnt seem to bother him much.

My male German Short Haired Pointer* was dying of freaking cancer and ran 'round with the young female until he day he died.  What I'm trying to say is, some dogs can fight through pain to do what is enjoyable for them.  But, the pain is still there and ought to be treated if you know about it and have the means.  Heck, even baby aspirin can take the edge off for some dogs with arthritis/dysplasia.

*Ten, a wonderful GSP and buddy.

[BlueStarLizzard]

pain killers like deramax are very mild. its one of those things that just makes life a little easier. its not a fix, just an ease.

its all about quliaty of life.

another thing that he might like is a heated doggy bed. i know you can get them through variouse pet supplie places.

other then that, just keep him active. he sounds like a great old dog with lots of life left.

[The Annoyed Man]

Baby aspirin really works?

My parents are the type that will do whatever the vet says (regardless of cost) and when we took him to the vet a month ago they didnt say anything about arthritis. However, if the vet doesnt say anything they are unlikely to do anything.

Yeah hes a good boyo 

As far as the heated bed, I doubt it. We didnt crate train the old dog, and hr sleeps pretty much wheverver he wants (often in the bed with a family member), but more likely on the hardwood floors where its coolest. I dont think we could get him to sleep in a dog bed regardless, much less a hot one!

And as for the advice against using the crate as punishment, you are right and that should have been obvious.

Any advice for an alternative punishment?

I didnt really envision it as punishment, more as a "now is not play time, now is when  you relax" sort of thing.

[Balog]

Use a totally different voice when correcting. "No" in a stern voice, or just a particular noise. Be consistent with your expression of displeasure and the dog will get it.

[roo_ster]

Baby aspirin really works?

Yes, if the dog is light enough.  Regular aspirin for dogs of larger size.  For instance, a 100lb dog might require 8 baby aspirin tablets.  Not practical, when you can use the equivalent of 1 or 2 adult aspirin.

Now, I mention aspirin because it s cheap.  If you have the money and desire, the vet will likely have better meds to prescribe, as bsl mentioned.  Lots of country vets suggest it because it is the best/only med that folks who see their dogs as less family and more useful livestock will use on Fido.

When our family has administered aspirin to older dogs with arthritis, they usually did it in the AM & maybe noon/early PM, but not at night.  The idea is to let Fido be as active as he once was and to take the edge off.

Since your folks are obviously willing to use a vet, get your older dog to the vet and have him specifically evaluate that condition.  The payoff might be a more active older dog who feels better.

[BlueStarLizzard]

well, non of those things may really be needed yet, but they may be good ideas in the future. my dogs don't have desiginated dog beds either. unless you count the couch, the floor or my bed. and the heated dog bed is the patch of sunlight on the floor by the front door.

dallas sounds like he's just being the good old man that he is. and the puppy sounds like a puppy.

crate ideas: always give her a little treat, put some toys inside the crate, make sure its comfy and cosy. the idea is that its not punishment. the comand to go in her crate should be a cheerful "crate up" or something of the sort. my bosses old english bulldog gets "annie, go in your room!" 

[bedlamite]

Re Aspirin in dogs:  The recommended dosage for aspirin in dogs is 10mg/lb of body weight every 12 hours.

http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dpain.html



In my experience, 10mg/lb twice a day is excessive. I used to have a golden retriever with hip displasia and 5mg/lb once in the morning was enough to change his outlook on life, and I've also heard that some dogs can have stomach problems when it's used continuously.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Re Aspirin in dogs:  The recommended dosage for aspirin in dogs is 10mg/lb of body weight every 12 hours.

http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/dpain.html



In my experience, 10mg/lb twice a day is excessive. I used to have a golden retriever with hip displasia and 5mg/lb once in the morning was enough to change his outlook on life, and I've also heard that some dogs can have stomach problems when it's used continuously.

asprin can have the same effects on dogs as it does on humans. and as with humans, tylonal is an acceptable alternative.

[bedlamite]

asprin can have the same effects on dogs as it does on humans. and as with humans, tylonal is an acceptable alternative.

Tylenol had no effect on Brandy.