Author Topic: Pagan Festivus Holiday Appropriated from Christian Christmas  (Read 1233 times)

roo_ster

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Pagan Festivus Holiday Appropriated from Christian Christmas
« on: December 14, 2006, 09:32:33 AM »
OR: 
It ain't what you don't know that'll hurt ya.  It's what you know that ain't so!

To sum up:
1. Early Christians celebrated Jesus' death & conception on March 25
2. March 25 + 9 months = December 25
3. Third century pagan leader of faltering pagan empire appropriates December 25 (due to its popularity with Christians & others) as a pagan holiday
4. New pagan holiday gains some traction with pagans
5. Fourth century Christians, ever seeking ways to save the unsaved, co-opt the new pagan holiday that was a co-opt of their (Christian) holiday
6. Seventeenth century Protestant German attempts to tear at Roman Catholic legitimacy by reading about the second, Christian co-option (incomplete information), seeing it occurred on the winter solstice, and assuming that the original pagan holiday was somehow connected with the winter solstice (invalid assumption)
7. Aha!  What floats?  Ducks, witches, & small pebbles.  Therefore , if a woman weighs as much as a duck, she must be a witch!.

http://markshea.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_markshea_archive.html#116611119750997638

Quote
It is vital we not get bogged down in minutiae and miss the blazingly obvious. So, for instance, we must not get distracted by the irrelevant question of whether Roman Christians were right to place Jesus' birthday on December 25. Nor should we waste time saying, "Ah ha! Some early Christians relied on the unbiblical Jewish tradition of 'integral age' or Chrysostom's 'rabbinic tradition'!" Again, granted: the date of Christmas isn't found in Scripture. But that isn't what matters.

The crucial thing is not, "Did the early Christians get the date of Christmas right?" It is, rather, "What mattered to them as they determined the date of Christmas?" And when you look at that, you again immediately realize that what dominates their minds is not Diana, Isis, sun worship, or anything else in the pagan religious world. What interests them is, from our modern multicultural perspective, stunningly insular. Their debates are consumed, not by longing for goddess worship, or pagan mythology, or a desire to import Isis and Diana into the Faith, but the exact details of the New Testament record of Jesus' death, alloyed with a Jewish-not pagan-theory about when Jewish-not pagan-prophets die. They don't care a bit how pagan priests ordered their worship in the Temple of Diana at Ephesus. They care intensely about how Levitical priests ordered their worship in the Temple of Solomon at Jerusalem. These Christians are completely riveted on Scripture and details of Jewish and Christian history and tradition. They don't give a hoot what sun worshipers, Osiris devotees, or Isis fans might think.

This just tickles the heck outta me, as a non-RC Christian.  Why?  Because it is so...humanizing of the pagans, for one thing.  They were'nt just bumps on a log wondering where the heck all their adherents were going.  They got in the game for the hearts & souls of the Roman population.  They saw the Christians had a good thing, tried to glom on to it, and were moderately successful.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Eleven Mike

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Re: Pagan Festivus Holiday Appropriated from Christian Christmas
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 09:56:13 AM »
First, is there a source somewhere for all this?

Second, this is all very confusing for those who don't know about the traditional belief that prophets had "integral ages."  That is, they die on the same day of the year they were conceived. 

roo_ster

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Re: Pagan Festivus Holiday Appropriated from Christian Christmas
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 11:00:35 AM »
D'oh!

Fixed, now.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

roo_ster

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Re: Pagan Festivus Holiday Appropriated from Christian Christmas
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 11:03:56 AM »
Integral Age = Prophet dies on the same calendar day he was conceived

Jewish belief contemporary with early Christianity & not supported in OT or NT.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton