Author Topic: Good news for Californians  (Read 2423 times)

Angel Eyes

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Good news for Californians
« on: January 18, 2011, 07:30:09 PM »

I just got this email from J&G Sales:

Quote
AB962 UPDATE FOR CALIFORNIA GUN OWNERS !!

The CA law AB962 was invalidated by Judge Jeff Hamilton in the Fresno Superior Court today, Jan 18th. The law will nto be going into effect and we will be shipping handgun ammo to California as usual. kudos to the attorneys and CA gun owners advocate groups that worked hard to get this law tossed out.


AB962 would have effectively banned all mail-order and Internet sales of handgun ammunition to California addresses.

Score one for the good guys.
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Ben

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 07:36:40 PM »
Thanks for that post Angel Eyes! I completely forgot the ruling was coming down today. I guess we can thank our lucky stars the ruling came down in a Central Valley court versus one in San Francisco.

Anyway, my preparation in case the lawsuit failed now has me back to being fully stocked on ammo.  =D
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Ben

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 07:41:07 PM »
Here's the NRAILA statement:

----------------------------------

COURT GRANTS NRA / CRPA FOUNDATION MOTION, INVALIDATES UNCONSTITUTIONAL AMMUNITION REGULATION STATUTE THAT WOULD HAVE BANNED MAIL ORDER AMMO SALES & REQUIRED AMMO SALES REGISTRATION

In a dramatic ruling giving gun owners a win in an National Rifle Association / California Rifle and Pistol (CRPA) Foundation lawsuit, this morning Fresno Superior Court Judge Jeffrey Hamilton ruled that AB 962, the hotly contested statute that would have banned mail order ammunition sales and required all purchases of so called “handgun ammunition” to be registered, was unconstitutionally vague on its face. The Court enjoined enforcement of the statute, so mail order ammunition sales to California can continue unabated, and ammunition sales need not be registered under the law.

The lawsuit was prompted in part by the many objections and questions raised by confused police, ammunition purchasers, and sellers about what ammunition is covered by the new laws created by AB 962. In a highly unusual move that reflects growing law enforcement opposition to ineffective gun control laws, Tehama County Sheriff Clay Parker is the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit. Other plaintiffs include the CRPA Foundation, Herb Bauer Sporting Goods, ammunition shipper Able’s Ammo, collectible ammunition shipper RTG Sporting Collectibles, and individual Steven Stonecipher. Mendocino Sheriff Tom Allman also supported the lawsuit.

The ruling comes just days before the portion of the law that bans mail order sales of so called “handgun ammunition” was set to take effect on February 1, 2011. The lawsuit, Parker v. California is funded exclusively by the NRA and the CRPA Foundation. If it had gone into effect, AB 962 would have imposed burdensome and ill conceived restrictions on the sales of ammunition. AB 962 required that “handgun ammunition” be stored out of the reach of customers, that ammunition vendors collect ammunition sales registration information and thumb-prints from purchasers, and conduct transactions face-to-face for all deliveries and transfers of “handgun ammunition.” The lawsuit successfully sought the declaration from the Court that the statute was unconstitutional, and successfully sought the injunctive relief prohibiting law enforcement from enforcing the new laws.

The lawsuit alleged, and the Court agreed, that AB 962 is unconstitutionally vague on its face because it fails to provide sufficient legal notice of what ammunition cartridges are “principally for use in a handgun,” and thus is considered “handgun ammunition” that is regulated under AB 962. It is practically impossible, both for those subject to the law and for those who must enforce it, to determine whether any of the thousands of different types of ammunition cartridges that can be used in handguns are actually “principally for use in” or used more often in, a handgun. The proportional usage of any given cartridge is impossible to determine, and in any event changes with market demands. In fact, the legislature itself is well aware of the vagueness problem with AB 962's definition of "handgun ammunition" and tried to redefine it via AB 2358 in 2010. AB 2358 failed in the face of opposition from the NRA and CRPA based on the proposal’s many other nonsensical infringements on ammunition sales to law abiding citizens.

Constitutional vagueness challenges to state laws are extremely difficult to win, particularly in California firearms litigation so this success is particularly noteworthy. Even so, an appeal by the State is likely, but the Court’s Order enjoining enforcement of the law is effective – February 1, 2011 – immediately regardless.

Despite this win for common sense over ill-conceived and counter productive gun laws, additional legislation on this and related subjects will no doubt be proposed in Sacramento this legislative session. It is absolutely critical that those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms stay informed and make their voices heard in Sacramento. When AB 962 passed there was loud outcry from law abiding gun owners impacted by the new law. Those voices must be heard during the legislative session and before a proposed law passes, not after a law is signed. To help, sign up for legislative alerts at www.nraila.com and www.calnra.com and respond when called upon.

Seventeen years ago the NRA and CRPA joined forces to fight local gun bans being written and pushed in California by the gun ban lobby. Their coordinated efforts became the NRA/CRPA "Local Ordinance Project" (LOP) - a statewide campaign to fight ill conceived local efforts at gun control and educate politicians about available programs that are effective in reducing accidents and violence without infringing on the rights of law-abiding gun owners. The NRA/CRPA LOP has had tremendous success in beating back most of these anti-self-defense proposals.

In addition to fighting local gun bans, for decades the NRA has been litigating dozens of cases in California courts to promote the right to self-defense and the 2nd Amendment. In the post Heller and McDonaldlegal environment, NRA and CRPA Foundation have formed the NRA/CRPA Foundation Legal Action Project (LAP), a joint venture to pro-actively strike down ill-conceived gun control laws and ordinances and advance the rights of firearms owners, specifically in California. Sometimes, success is more likely when LAP's litigation efforts are kept low profile, so the details of every lawsuit are not always released. To see a partial list of the LAP’s recent accomplishments, or to contribute to the NRA or to the NRA / CRPAF LAP and support this and similar Second Amendment cases, visit www.nraila.com and www.crpafoundation.org.
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dm1333

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 08:00:50 PM »
Quote
In a highly unusual move that reflects growing law enforcement opposition to ineffective gun control laws, Tehama County Sheriff Clay Parker is the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit. Other plaintiffs include the CRPA Foundation, Herb Bauer Sporting Goods, ammunition shipper Able’s Ammo, collectible ammunition shipper RTG Sporting Collectibles, and individual Steven Stonecipher. Mendocino Sheriff Tom Allman also supported the lawsuit.

Anybody know who Steven Stoneciper is?  I'm going to write thank you's to everybody but Sheriff Allman.  Next time I see him I'm going to thank him personally.  We were just talking at work today about what a stupid law this was, including what the heck constitutes "hand gun ammunition". 

AJ Dual

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 08:32:06 PM »
Did the law fail to exclude California LEA's?  :laugh:
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stevelyn

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 09:25:22 PM »
I know this is a decision made in a CA state court, but I'm curious if this could be used as precedent to unravel similar laws in other jurisdictions?
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longeyes

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 10:36:24 AM »
Quote
The lawsuit alleged, and the Court agreed, that AB 962 is unconstitutionally vague on its face because it fails to provide sufficient legal notice of what ammunition cartridges are “principally for use in a handgun,” and thus is considered “handgun ammunition” that is regulated under AB 962. It is practically impossible, both for those subject to the law and for those who must enforce it, to determine whether any of the thousands of different types of ammunition cartridges that can be used in handguns are actually “principally for use in” or used more often in, a handgun. The proportional usage of any given cartridge is impossible to determine, and in any event changes with market demands. In fact, the legislature itself is well aware of the vagueness problem with AB 962's definition of "handgun ammunition" and tried to redefine it via AB 2358 in 2010. AB 2358 failed in the face of opposition from the NRA and CRPA based on the proposal’s many other nonsensical infringements on ammunition sales to law abiding citizens.

If this is what the overturn is based on, I think you can expect this deficiency to be "corrected" soon enough.  I'm not happy to write this because I live in California and would love to see AB962 negated.  What I'm reading, though, sounds like a temporary technicality, not a real Constitution-based dispositive challenge.
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Ben

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 10:55:39 AM »
They'll certainly retry this. They have a lot of work to do though. AB962 included ammunition carrying devices in the definition of ammunition. I'd be really interested to see a list of the "experts" the dems used to come up with the AB962 provisions.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 10:59:12 AM »
Longeyes, I'm glad to see a court finally acknowledge what you quoted.

I would hope this little piece of dicta finds its way into situations where WalMart denies the sale of .22LR to an 18 year old because it's "handgun ammunition."
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AJ Dual

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 01:48:32 PM »
Longeyes, I'm glad to see a court finally acknowledge what you quoted.

I would hope this little piece of dicta finds its way into situations where WalMart denies the sale of .22LR to an 18 year old because it's "handgun ammunition."

I fail to see how that would apply to a private business?  ???

Anyway... Let's hope that California is too busy going broke to re-write AB962 anytime soon.  :angel:
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GigaBuist

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 11:36:21 AM »
Well, if the legislature tries again they'll need a signature from Jerry Brown instead of Arnold Schvwartzeneageaear.

That's good for something I guess.

dm1333

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 02:11:27 PM »
Quote
Anyway... Let's hope that California is too busy going broke to re-write AB962 anytime soon. 


The US was going broke and our Congress found plenty of time to devote to other things (health care), I'm not going to hold my breath.  Why worry about jobs when there are so many other problems out there to be fixed!

Regolith

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2011, 09:25:54 PM »
Well, if the legislature tries again they'll need a signature from Jerry Brown instead of Arnold Schvwartzeneageaear.

That's good for something I guess.

Good for what, exactly?

My understanding is that Brown is a leftist moonbat and makes Ahnold look conservative. Why wouldn't he sign it?
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Ben

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 09:39:01 PM »
Good for what, exactly?

My understanding is that Brown is a leftist moonbat and makes Ahnold look conservative. Why wouldn't he sign it?

Sadly, he's not that far to the left, or at least not that much more socialist, than Arnold (which only indicates how far left Arnold slid while Governor). Some would say he even has a better record for individual freedoms. Not that he wouldn't sign an ammo bill that crossed his desk...
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 09:51:17 PM »
FWIW, when Brown was CA attorney general, he filed an amicus brief in the Heller case supporting Heller's position that the Second Amendment applies to individuals.

This is no guarantee he would veto ammo restrictions, but he appears to be more pro-2A than his predecessor.
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gunsmith

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Re: Good news for Californians
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2011, 01:13:04 AM »
like I said here before, this law was and shall remain un possible in CA.
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