Author Topic: What are the Russians Smoking?  (Read 12717 times)

longeyes

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2008, 11:52:19 AM »
Micro, you're in Israel, right?  I'm in Los Angeles.  Talk to anyone around here about Thanksgiving for five minuts and I'll bet you a latte that you hear someone have misgivings about America's "dark history."  I'm not saying it's epidemic throughout all of America, just that a large percentage of liberals believe America is irreversibly flawed at its core.
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Silver Bullet

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2008, 12:40:47 PM »
They need us, we don't need them.

MicroBalrog

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2008, 05:06:36 PM »
Micro, you're in Israel, right?  I'm in Los Angeles.  Talk to anyone around here about Thanksgiving for five minuts and I'll bet you a latte that you hear someone have misgivings about America's "dark history."  I'm not saying it's epidemic throughout all of America, just that a large percentage of liberals believe America is irreversibly flawed at its core.

I think it's mostly the campus type.  I meet a lot of people who believe that crap about America, too. A lot of them US expats. Funny, they shut up if I ask them when they're going to give up their citizenship.
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gunsmith

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2008, 05:14:37 PM »
it is aboot time we recognized the importance of Canada in the USA affairs!, eh?
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Jeff B.

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 05:47:54 PM »
I think that our Russian friend may be onto something...  even though I disagree with his scenario about a regionalization.  Many of the previous posts have made good and valid points about the United States become less and less united.  The emphasis on "multiculturalism" has made the "melting pot" idea bad, and part of the old ways of thinking.  An example of how different that was to those who emigrated to the US, was my Grandfather...  once they arrived in the US, he would only allow English to be spoken in the house.  My mother remembers the biggest arguements between he and my Grandmother being about her continuing to speak Norwegian with her friends and in the neighborhood.  We still honor many Norwegian traditions, especially at Christmas, but are Americans.  Period.  Have been for three generations now.

Anyway... back to the Russian Professor.  An item I agree with him on is the role that the current economic situation will have on exacerbating the divisions between regions.  I don't think that the bailout(s) will correct things and bring the economy back.  I beleive we are moving into a necessary period of re-adjustment, which will be very painful.  A consequence of that pain may well be increased state government dissillusionment with central government programs, legislation and taxation.  If I were to guess at what a modified map would look like, you'll see the NE and upper Midwest in affiliation, with the central southern, central southwest, plains and mountain states coming together.  That then leaves the west coast to form its own socialist utopia probably with coastal Oregon and Washington.

Most importantly, I don't see this as something that is inherently violent.  This isn't the civil war redux, and the worst thing for any side to do would be to either threaten or attempt to use force to achieve their aims. 

The last area that I find issue with our friend about is his view that Russia and China are ready to step in to fill the place of the US in facilitating the global economy.  I don't think he understands how much has changed and how evident those changes will become inthe next 6 - 12 months.  I also feel that one reason that we haven't heard much from China lately is that they are busy internally trying to "keep the genie in the bottle" and that the recent slowdown has affected them much moreso that we (the public) can see or they will admit.

Jeff B.
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MechAg94

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2008, 09:12:31 PM »
I simply think it would take a sustained event or series of events spanning decades to permanently break up the US.  I think it would take some time for the majority of Americans to stop thinking of themselves that way or to think they could go it alone better; regardless of how bad it was in the short term. 
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longeyes

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2008, 09:19:14 PM »
MicroBalog:

It is not just the "campus" types.  This "dissing of America" phenomenon has spread far beyond the ivy-covered enclaves.

We are slowly but surely deconstructing America, unpacking the legacy.  Some of this is being by American themselves, through such phenomena as multiculturalism.  Some of it is being forced upon us by the pressures of globalization and the untenability of how we have come to run our economic affairs in the last few decades.

I see inevitable fragmentation, but the way our nation re-sorts itself will be, as with other countries, unique.  How we reshuffle ourselves and whether that is peaceful or something is being worked out.


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digitalandanalog

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2008, 07:25:35 PM »
Question...

Did Garreau actually live in the places (for an amount of time to get a real feel for the culture) that he said would make up the new nations?

I have spent a lot of time living all over and visiting the rest of this country to know that his boundries are close, but not quite accurate.

ArfinGreebly

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2008, 10:50:13 PM »
Quote
So Canada has influence on the northern states?

Yeah, they've infected Idaho & Montana with their winter.

To return the favor, when we take them over, we will infect them with our gun laws.

The ownership roles aren't what they at first seem to be.

 =D
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2008, 01:25:42 AM »
Who is Igor Panarrin?  Does anyone in Russia take him seriously?  He's a professor of somesuch, but does that make him important or influential there?  Or is he rather like American professors, well-educated but clueless and generally harmless?

MicroBalrog

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2008, 03:48:05 AM »
Who is Igor Panarrin?  Does anyone in Russia take him seriously?  He's a professor of somesuch, but does that make him important or influential there?  Or is he rather like American professors, well-educated but clueless and generally harmless?

I understand from what I read on the Russian sites that he's taken like a raving loony by the general academic community there.
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RocketMan

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2008, 07:33:00 AM »
Once in awhile even a raving looney catches a glimpse of the big picture.  He is wrong in the details, but overall I believe he understands what will happen to the US eventually.
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Balog

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2008, 10:50:55 AM »
I simply think it would take a sustained event or series of events spanning decades to permanently break up the US.  I think it would take some time for the majority of Americans to stop thinking of themselves that way or to think they could go it alone better; regardless of how bad it was in the short term. 

^^^   This.

As long as they can still get off work, grab a six pack, and plop down in front of the teevee most Americans don't care enough to make trouble. And one common theme shared by most is pride about being "American" it's just people have different views on what it means to be American.
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Tallpine

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2008, 11:03:41 AM »
Question...

Did Garreau actually live in the places (for an amount of time to get a real feel for the culture) that he said would make up the new nations?

I have spent a lot of time living all over and visiting the rest of this country to know that his boundries are close, but not quite accurate.

Well, for one thing - western Colorado has been seriously californicated since the early 1980's  =(
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longeyes

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2008, 11:55:16 AM »
What you call Californication is just post-WW II American culture gradually disseminating itself throughout America.

But take heart, it's a failed enterprise and about to fall to pieces.
"Domari nolo."

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Tallpine

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2008, 01:26:09 PM »
What you call Californication is just post-WW II American culture gradually disseminating itself throughout America.

But take heart, it's a failed enterprise and about to fall to pieces.

I dunno - I lived there (and escaped!) and the term seemed pretty apt to me.

Old cowtowns (and sheep!) becoming liberal yuppie bastions. :(   Oh, the curse of pretty scenery!
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Balog

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Re: What are the Russians Smoking?
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2008, 02:22:40 PM »
Longeyes: I think living in LA may be giving you a skewed perspective......
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.