The Golden Compass

[RevDisk]

Start off easy -anyone seen it?

Anyone not going to see it?

Heard a bunch of the loonies screaming for it to be banned, censored or boycotted (typically depending on the sanity level of the loonie).  So I went with a lady friend.  Book version was better.

If the religious wackos get all frothy about calling for 'censorship' of any book or movie, I make it a point to buy a copy.  Most were disappointing in the subversive nature.  Sigh.

[Balog]

I bought a copy of all three books in one binding knowing nothing about the series. Read the first one and was disappointed. The "God/the Church hates you and is evil" moralizing of the ending were as laughable as they were heavy handed. I hadn't thought too much of the anti-Church stuff up to that point; for a while I was really interested in the various persecutions the Catholic church has perpetrated over the years, and so was more than willing to accept a large central church being tyrannical.

I suppose it all comes down to quality. I love vehemently anti-Christian bands like Tool (just saw them in concert actually) because they are really, really good. I put up with their opposition to my belief because they are talented, aimed at adults (or at least older teens) and make songs about things other than "God doesn't exist, but if He did He'd suck." The Golden Compass is 1) a crappy story, poorly told 2) clumsy in it's attempted propaganda 3) aimed at kids. Say what you will about Maynard he's not trying to use cute n' furries to get your 6 year old to hate God. I find propaganda annoying; I find propaganda aimed at kids upsetting.   

[Perd Hapley]

Going by Wiki, then, there is no actual God in the Dark Materials universe multiverse?

There is The Authority - a Godlike figure who is first among angels, having claimed the title of 'God' long long ago in a galaxy far, far away.

This is the most direct Paradise Lost parallel - Satan claims that God has no authority because he didn't create the other angels, he just happened to exist first and seize power.

So, like I said, no actual God.   

[Matthew Carberry]

Correct, no G-d and a hyper-stylized church.

Pullman's an idiot, he should have stuck with lit. crit.

But, armored freakin' polar bears!

[member1313]

I might go see it.

I have to say, though: religious people getting bent out of shape because someone has atheist views is hysterical. I guess some people never learn any tolerance, religious or otherwise.

[Len Budney]

So, like I said, no actual God.   

I responded to the beginning of this thread by buying and reading the trilogy. I enjoyed the first book, and noted that it was anti (Catholic) church, not anti religion or God per se. Which didn't bother me; the Catholic church has quite a bit of bad history to live down.

But the later books got explicitly offensive to my own Christian sensibilities. The "no actual God" is killed in book 3, not with a bang but a whimper: described as "the ancient of days," senile and gibbering, he's released from his prison--where he was placed by his right hand in a coup only alluded to in the book--and evaporates like smoke. The author's scorn was delivered pretty skillfully: this was merely a side incident in a larger chapter; it wasn't a climax of any sort; and it was never mentioned again.

So if Christian types ask my opinion, as my sister-in-law already did, I'd say Christians are just as well avoiding it. But I don't see the need to issue any fatwas at this time. I don't quite relate to Christians who issue fatwas. 

--Len.

[grampster]

Regarding have one's religious faith mocked or disparaged:  I've always held that one's faith is not very strong if one is troubled by the mockery of those who have no faith or a differing faith.  People who mock have the baggage, not I.

[MechAg94]

I haven't really heard anyone actively calling for a boycott of this movie other than one single email.  Most all I heard was people saying that it may have anti-religious undertones and might not be that movie you want to take your kids to around Christmas.  That is not censorship.  That is not banning anything.  The energetic and militant reaction to "religious crazies" on this thread is funny. 

In defense if Michael Medved, since he is a movie reviewer, he actually had seen the movie already when I heard him talk about it.  All he said was what I said above.  Might not be the best kids movie for some.  I believe he did say much of the atheistic stuff was muted in this movie.   

I also read Nania and LOR and saw the movies.  I never noticed any pro or anti concerning religion at all.  I can see the reasoning behind Narnia, but the tie in with Christianity is pretty weak.  C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Plant series had a lot more religious tie-in IMO. 

As someone else said, the armored bears look really cool so I will probably try to rent it at least. 

Maybe someone should make a movie of Job:  A Comedy of Justice by Heinlein.  That would ruffle some feathers. 

[BryanP]

I picked up the trilogy as a single volume recently.  I'm part way through the first book right now.  It's not bad.  Not great, but reasonably entertaining so far.

[Iain]

That's two people that have said they don't see the allegory in Narnia.

I love the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, but is an explicitly Christian book.

[Manedwolf]

I wonder what Hollywood is going to do in terms of completely revising the Calormenes out of fear of fatwahs?

[BrokenPaw]

Regarding have one's religious faith mocked or disparaged:  I've always held that one's faith is not very strong if one is troubled by the mockery of those who have no faith or a differing faith.  People who mock have the baggage, not I.

Well spoken, sir.

With regard to those who do not see Narnia as being a Christian story, I'm very confuzzled. 

Let's recap: 

There is a war going on between Good and Evil.  One of the people (called a "Son of Adam", no less) who is supposed to be on the side of Good screws up, and therefore is claimed by the Evil leader.  But the Good leader (who is a Lion, perhaps in conscious reference to Rev 5:5), one who has done no wrong and is therefore an innocent, offers himself in sacrifice in place of the one who did wrong.  He is killed, and the Evil leader rejoices because with the Good leader gone, victory is at hand.  But the Good leader returns to life; death had no power over him because of his innocence.  And he returns and saves everyone.

Which part of that is not a clear allegory of Christian theology?

-BP

[Ben]

That's two people that have said they don't see the allegory in Narnia.

I get the Aslan = Christ thing, but I just don't get it as having religion shoved down by throat. It's more a story of honor and self sacrifice to me.   

[Iain]

BP detailed it well enough. Perhaps the problem is perception, plenty of people might well interpret Narnia as Christian propaganda aimed at kids. That might seem ridiculous to many, some of those are probably the same people who see Pullman as atheistic propaganda aimed at kids.

[MechAg94]

BenW said it for me.  I see what BrokenPaw is saying, but I wasn't looking for it when I watched the movie.  It also had Santa Claus and magic and witches as well which are really not Christian.

I seriously doubt the anti-God themes in the Golden Compass movie are all that big either.  Sure, it is there if you really want to look, but you can probably enjoy the movie without worrying about it. 

There are Christian references and influences throughout Western culture.  If you nitpick every one, you are going to be busy. 

[BryanP]

It also had Santa Claus and magic and witches as well which are really not Christian.

I dunno, I seem to recall there being references to witches and witchcraft in the bible.   

[MechAg94]

Yeah, but only God turned people into stone..or salt. 

[AZRedhawk44]

I read all three pages of this thread... you guys have way too much time on your hands.

I'm not going to see this movie because the previews for it sucked.  C'mon... armored freakin' polar bears?

Where's the plot?

Not in the previews, that's for sure.

Half-a$$ed CG about on par with the overly airbrushed and "pretty" Narnia.  That's all I see in the previews.  They don't hold still long enough for anyone to actually speak, or for me to get more than a dizzying glimpse of some snowy location.

Bleh.  Meh.  I love good sci-fi and fantasy, but...

Armored polar bears?  

Gimme some PLOT.

[Matthew Carberry]

C'mon... armored freakin' polar bears?

Armored polar bears?  

You keep using these words disparagingly, I do not think you grasp how awesome they sound. 

[Manedwolf]

C'mon... armored freakin' polar bears?

Armored polar bears?  

You keep using these words disparagingly, I do not think you grasp how awesome they sound. 

The huskies would still win.

[Matthew Carberry]

Well sure, husky with a chain takes on a poor unarmed (and unarmored) polar bear.

Great photo, apparently someone wasn't hungry. 

[Perd Hapley]

Regarding have one's religious faith mocked or disparaged:  I've always held that one's faith is not very strong if one is troubled by the mockery of those who have no faith or a differing faith.  People who mock have the baggage, not I. 

Why is the dissent of conservative Christians always treated differently from that of any other group?  All sides of all issues react to movies, messages, books, speeches, etc. from the other side.  Don't they?  Since no one is burning Philip Pullman in effigy, why all the scorn directed at those who speak against his work?

To quote a great expert on this subject:

Religious nit-wits go overboard about these kinds of movies, just like conservative/libertarian nit-wits go overboard about Michael Moore films, etc. 

We all know that such propaganda sways the opinions of dumb people.  And dumb people vote.  Beyond that, they also make choices about their religious lives.  And those things matter. 

 

[seeker_two]

C'mon... armored freakin' polar bears?

Armored polar bears?  

You keep using these words disparagingly, I do not think you grasp how awesome they sound. 

Not as cool as.......sharks with freakin' laser beams..... 

[Kaylee]

BrokenPaw - don't forget the breaking of the Stone Table - that's a pretty outright metaphor for the New Covenant I'd say.

As to the Compass movie.. I was really looking forward to it until all the hullaballoo about the plot and author surfaced. Now.. I think I'll skip it.
Not really even as a boycott thing, it just wouldn't be fun anymore.

With all the pretty scenery, steampunky feel, fun fantasy look it looked like it'd be an awesome time - then I find it's just a Miltonian grudge riff?
Crud.

I felt like a waiter was offering the most wonderful dark chocolate rasberry torte... and right before he put it on the table, he dropped trousers and peed on the darn thing. No matter how well crafted it may be, I just wouldn't enjoy it. So why go?

Oh well, God bless him. I'll just wait for Prince Caspian in a couple months. That'll be fun.

[MechAg94]

I would rather see armored grizzlys.  They are tougher and stronger than polar bears. 

BrokenPaw, to me every fantasy/magic movie has some rules/prophesy that they use as part of the plot.  Not all of them are considered to be Biblically themed.  I do agree that the author was trying to put in Christian themes.