Author Topic: The Golden Compass  (Read 20146 times)

Tecumseh

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2007, 05:36:29 AM »
Saw the movie and enjoyed it.  I will read the book and give money to Pullman as they seem to have entertained me.

El Tejon

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2007, 06:48:14 AM »
Painfully boring and moronic.

However, my brother did decide that he simply must have an Ice Bear for home defense.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2007, 06:59:07 AM »
Painfully boring and moronic.

However, my brother did decide that he simply must have an Ice Bear for home defense.

Much wisdom your brother has.
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Ron

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2007, 07:00:19 AM »
Quote
I do think that those like Medved (if your description is accurate) are engaging in a kind of hearsay reaction stirring, and I think it's pretty unpleasant.

Michael Medved is a movie reviewer, him and Jeffry Lyons replaced Siskel and Ebert on Public Broadcastings "Sneak Previews" movie review television show years ago when S&E left PBS.

He is now also a conservative commentator and is not a Christian, he is a practicing Jew.


Perd Hapley

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2007, 08:09:56 AM »
I have to say, though: religious people getting bent out of shape because someone has atheist views is hysterical. I guess some people never learn any tolerance, religious or otherwise. 


Who are these "religious people getting bent out of shape because someone has atheist views"?  There may be some religious people over-reacting to a film that appears to be anti-religious, but that's about it. 

None of which has anything to do with tolerance.  The movie's not being legally banned anywhere around here, is it?  Huh?
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CAnnoneer

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2007, 05:05:52 AM »
Four pages of thread over such a piece-of-trash movie. Panzerbjorn? Animal spirit daemons? Pre-pubescent kids saving the world?  That thing was even worse than Harry Potter. Too much violence for a kids movie and too much incongruous nonsense for an adult movie. What was the target audience of this trash?

As far as the "advisory" goes, "don't go see a movie because we disagree with it philosophically" strikes me as both arrogant and stupid. Who are they to tell others to see or not see a movie? Also, the more they protest, the more people get attracted to go see it and figure out what the fuss is all about here.

One thing that really pisses me off over organized religion and some of its adherents is this idea of theological communism - "we want to save you from yourselves, for your own good, for the children". How about you back off? Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you. Let people decide what their own good is, and pursue it in a manner that does not infringe on the pursuits of others.

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2007, 06:21:51 AM »
Four pages of thread over such a piece-of-trash movie.

Well, hey, welcome to the internet.   smiley 

A lot of you, the religious and the not-so-religious, are having one big knee-jerk about this.  You're assuming there is some high-profile protest of this film, making publicity for it.  But there isn't, for once. 

And then some of you are making hysterical comments about bans and "theological communism."  In reality, the religious folk are just speaking out against a film that counters their point of view.  Just like most of us have spoken out against films like "Bowling for Columbine" or "An Inconvenient Truth."  And you haven't all forgotten Jim Zumbo already, have you? 

Religious nit-wits go overboard about these kinds of movies, just like conservative/libertarian nit-wits go overboard about Michael Moore films, etc.  But it would be stupid to let the other side's propaganda go without any comment at all.  Propaganda sways the opinions of dumb people.  And dumb people vote.  Beyond that, they also make choices about their religious lives.  And those things matter. 
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CAnnoneer

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2007, 05:19:53 PM »
fistful,

Things are not equivalent. I don't like Fat Mike either (and his ideological father-in-lies, Oliver Stone), but I don't issue advisories against people's going to their movies. If I understand your stance correctly, you are saying people are too stupid and manipulable to be allowed to watch biased movies. So, for their own good, they shouldn't?

Matthew Carberry

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2007, 05:27:06 PM »
fistful,

Things are not equivalent. I don't like Fat Mike either (and his ideological father-in-lies, Oliver Stone), but I don't issue advisories against people's going to their movies. If I understand your stance correctly, you are saying people are too stupid and manipulable to be allowed to watch biased movies. So, for their own good, they shouldn't?

Nope, what he's saying is that many people with strong beliefs might see the ads and think it an appropriate movie for their children.  The ads don't mention anything about atheism.

By informing believers that it has an explicit athiest sub-text, those people can make an informed decision about whether to take their kids or not.

Just as I go to Rotten Tomatos and check the reviewers I trust for opinions, for example they might say "Don't see this movie, it lacks character development and the twist is puerile."; a Christian parent might go to a Christian reviewer and read " Don't see this movie, it explicitly criticizes Christianity and supports atheism".
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2007, 08:41:17 PM »
Carebear, I guess that's a good point, but it's not quite what I'm saying. 


First of all, one can't mock the Bible-thumpers for making the usual error of over-reaction.  Because they haven't, in this case.  There just isn't a whole lot of talk about it. 

Secondly, what talk there has been, has been no different than the usual outcry of any group against a book or film that counters their point of view.  It's hardly "communism" to point out the ideological undercurrent of such media, and suggest that your group avoid it or not support it with their cash.  You don't have a problem with the concept of the boycott, do you? 

Edit:  Of course, there are fringe lunatics that declare the end of days every time some movie like this comes out.  There are wackos that call for such movies to be legally banned, just as there are people that want every Muslim deported, or people like Michael Savage that want every ACLU lawyer put in jail.  But the nut-job over-reaction doesn't invalidate another's reasonable response. 

Quote from: CAnnoneer
If I understand your stance correctly, you are saying people are too stupid and manipulable to be allowed to watch biased movies. So, for their own good, they shouldn't?

Muh, huh, what?  How can I allow anyone to do anything, or stop them? 

Yes, of course, some people are manipulated and misled by books and films.  You don't deny that, do you?  We're talking about a movie that appeals to kids.  Whether people go to see it, or not, it's helpful to at least point out the arguments that a film is making, and counter those that are misleading. 

And finally, I would certainly suggest that most people avoid the propaganda of those I disagree with.  Why on Earth wouldn't I?  Why don't you? 
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2007, 08:47:08 PM »
Carebear, I guess that's a good point, but it's not quite what I'm saying. 

WHAT!

How DARE you contradict me when I'm speaking, er, for, uh, you....


Never mind.  grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

CAnnoneer

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2007, 10:13:24 AM »
Muh, huh, what?  How can I allow anyone to do anything, or stop them? 

For one thing, peer pressure. If a religious group comes out with advisories against seeing a movie, how many adherents would go see it anyway and risk alienating their fellows?

Quote
Yes, of course, some people are manipulated and misled by books and films.  You don't deny that, do you?  We're talking about a movie that appeals to kids.  Whether people go to see it, or not, it's helpful to at least point out the arguments that a film is making, and counter those that are misleading. 

The movie is rated PG-13. Are 14-year-olds so dainty that they will be inappropriately impressioned against religion by such a movie? Also, the movie was decidedly anti-clergy, but not necessarily anti-religious. I do not think religion and clergy are the same thing.

Quote
And finally, I would certainly suggest that most people avoid the propaganda of those I disagree with.  Why on Earth wouldn't I?  Why don't you? 

Because:
1) people are entitled to make up their own minds once they are given all the information.
2) temporarily shutting up the other party does not resolve the issue
3) many adversaries do an excellent job in discrediting themselves through their own message
4) by interfering with the delivery of the opposing message you can make it more appealing or lend it credit

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Golden Compass
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2007, 03:19:25 PM »
Muh, huh, what?  How can I allow anyone to do anything, or stop them?

For one thing, peer pressure. If a religious group comes out with advisories against seeing a movie, how many adherents would go see it anyway and risk alienating their fellows?

Weak.  Again, how can I stop anyone from doing anything?  The above is surely no answer.  You seem to believe that the general populace is strong enough to handle some BS in a movie, yet too weak to overcome a little negative peer pressure. 


Quote
1) people are entitled to make up their own minds once they are given all the information.
I never said otherwise.  Again, how am I keeping anyone from making up their minds, or getting all the information.  If they want all the information, do you really think a fantasy movie with talking animals should be anywhere near the top of their list?  What facts are we going to miss out on, if we don't watch the GC?   

Quote
2) temporarily shutting up the other party does not resolve the issue
What are you talking about?  Have the theaters been shut down?  Has the Alliance Defense Fund pressured the studios not to release the DVD?  Did the ghost of Jerry Falwell arise to haunt the cinemas?

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3) many adversaries do an excellent job in discrediting themselves through their own message
OK, fine.

Quote
4) by interfering with the delivery of the opposing message you can make it more appealing or lend it credit
see my response to number 2

Do you think Jim Zumbo should have kept his job, as an anti-gun hunting writer, providing ammo for Chuck Schumer? 
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