The GM Volt...

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I've gotta say that electrical motors are far more reliable and simpler to work on than combustion engines.  That's one clear advantage of electric cars.

[alex_trebek]

haha typo, meant million.  I blame becoming desensitized to large numbers due to gov spending trillions.  Yeah thats the ticket....

[brimic]

Doesn't normal operation of electrical motors give off *gasp* ozone?

[Firethorn]

If you pick and choose, then yes.  Overall efficiency has increased, I was referring to ideas like using low traction tires to decrease fuel consumption.  The main complaints about the Prius is performance in wet conditions, most of which can be related to the tires.

Many people buy new tires the moment they buy a new vehicle because they don't like the OEM tread.  There's a major difference between 'the low friction tires lose too much on wet roads' vs 'in wet conditions the car's computer confuses the accelerator and brake pedals'.

In reality there was a design flaw in the engine, and the dealerships knew about it and were replacing engines in leased cars they were selling used.

There's a big difference between a engine longevity issue and a safety issue like brakes failing.

In this specific case, the computer controlled engine refused to stop accelerating.  Many people claim that while using regenerative brake mode, they felt like the car was accelerating slightly.  In some cases the car accelerated on it's own, even with brake pressed down.  In some cases people claim the brake pedal hit the floor with no resistance.  I haven't examined or even ridden a Prius, so I have no idea for sure how the brake system works.

Strange.

Is that a viable option with a computer controlled CVT? 

Depends on the computer's programming.  It's entirely possible that it starts dumping energy into the batteries anyways, but I think you'd be better off actually hitting the brakes.

If the throttle sticks open in my car, I can use the clutch to separate the engine and transmission or I have a hard line connection I can turn off (the ignition).  Is that the case on a car that is completely computer controlled?

I think a bigger problem you'd have is that there's no hard connection between the engine and the wheels; engine braking would no longer be possible.  On the other hand, you still have traditional brakes, parking brake, and that big electric motor capable of acting as a generator to slow/stop the vehicle.

Once again you can find examples of a simply built car that has reliability issues, and I can point to the diesel Mercedes engines produced during the same time the beetle was designed.  Those were reported to achieve 1,000,000,000 km over the course of 40 years with minimal maintenance. It doesn't change the fact that generally speaking over-engineering a piece of equipment decreases it's reliability and increases it's maintenance costs.

Just used one average; there are cars today you can buy and expect to last 20 years, in the end the majority end up off the road in 10-15 anyways.

Furthermore, if you did have a problem with the beetle you could rebuild the engine in a matter of hours on your kitchen table if you so desired.  

I think the problem I have is that you needed to do it often enough that it was that routine.

I think the oil change interval has as much to do with advances in synthetic oil than it does with engines.

Synthetics haven't advanced that much since WWII when they were developed(mostly became more economical), and standards increased for traditional oil.  

Even then, I can find examples to counter the claim.  My old '92 civic ran without any maintenance, beyond oil changes, for well past 150,000 miles.

'92 still counts as 'newer' in my book.  I was thinking more of '70s and '80s cars.

A defective brake line (which can still cause a system failure in the Prius, BTW) or a software programmer puts decimal in the wrong place on line 99 of 200 lines of code? (I am assuming that Prius computer programming is relatively simple compared to PC's but more complicated when compared to traditional car computers)

The defective brake line.  It's statistics.  The programmer writes the code once, it gets proofed and tested.  The brake line requires everything to be good every time.

The point is, cars still need to be able to be deactived by human means.  Eventually everything fails.

There's a difference between 'deactivated' and 'stopped', and there's still quite a few ways to stop the prius.

In some of the cases with uncontrolled acceleration, it can be stopped by hitting cancel button on the cruise control.  Apparently the computer is randomly activating the cruise control and setting to 84 mph, without any indication it is on.

If true, then there's gotta be a bug that should be found and fixed.

Doesn't normal operation of electrical motors give off *gasp* ozone?

Brushed DC motors.  The motors in these cars would be advanced AC types.

[alex_trebek]

There's a big difference between a engine longevity issue and a safety issue like brakes failing.

The point I was making is (and supported by evidence):
Toyota knew there was a problem
Toyota customers were having to replace engines in cars that were under warranty at their own expense.
Toyota still blamed the user, to avoid the cost of a major recall.
The company is starting down the same road with the Prius, blaming the user.

In one instance the Prius started accelerating on the test drive, with the saleswoman in the passenger seat.  The dealership mechanic said that he (the potential buyer) put in too many carpet mats.  Obviously the test driver didn't have anything to do with the floor mats. 
I am not saying this proves a vast conspiracy, just saying it hints at company policy when considering the oil gel issues and this supposed problem.

If true, then there's gotta be a bug that should be found and fixed

Yes I would think so.  My point is that it made it through the rigorous software/hardware testing, and for some reason only appears to appear intermittently.  If it is a software bug, wouldn't it be on all cars programmed with that software?  This software isn't windows on a PC, you can't connect it to the internet and download updates, bug fixes, and patches.
 Sure the programming is less complex than a PC's OS, but there is a small margin for error.  Also if windows has a serious flaw, it is a relatively minor inconvenience.  If the car has a serious (unknown) flaw, the consequences could be grave.

The only way I know to update the software is through the dealership, or an aftermarket computer.  If the dealer refuses to admit there is a problem, it makes it kind of hard to fix the bug.

Many people buy new tires the moment they buy a new vehicle because they don't like the OEM tread.  There's a major difference between 'the low friction tires lose too much on wet roads' vs 'in wet conditions the car's computer confuses the accelerator and brake pedals'.

 

Yeah there is, but consider also the traction control system.  If you are losing traction every time the pavement is wet, then the traction control system is "randomly" coming on because it "thinks" you are sliding out of control.  Sounds a little unsafe to me...

I didn't mean to drift this long, I am simply concerned at people's assumptions that hybrid cars (as currently designed) are the future, and only direction to go.