Author Topic: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified  (Read 24733 times)

KD5NRH

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2010, 10:27:55 AM »
Yup, grade on the curve. That's the way it was in the 80's anyways. Take the highest mark, make it 100, add the same number of points to the rest.

I had a teacher who did that, but it was because he always tested a bit ahead of the lesson plan.  He also had enough smart kids in the class that the curve didn't come into play very often.  In that particular class, there was one who ended up getting a 1600 on the SAT, and one who got a 1580.


don

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2010, 10:44:37 AM »
If I were an administrator, I would fire or counsel any teacher who grades on a curve. Mathematically manipulating grades to fit the "standard distribution or curve" is indicative of flawed educational  philosophy.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 04:42:32 PM by don »

Tallpine

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2010, 11:00:43 AM »
Yup, grade on the curve. That's the way it was in the 80's anyways. Take the highest mark, make it 100, add the same number of points to the rest. That's why the kid (though he was a bit older) asked me to get a few more wrong than usual on the final. I see, I'm supposed to devalue myself so that you can compete with me more readily. Hmmm, nothing wrong with that picture. :laugh:

 
 


I'm guessing that some of my accounting professors just threw out my score as an outlier.

There would usually be extra credit questions, so my test score would often be 100+ and the next score maybe 82 or 83.  ;/ 
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Balog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2010, 11:03:13 AM »
Now I've got to get my butt back in school.  Anybody got any tips on catching up on algebra skills that have been rusting for 16 years?

This. Probably going back into school soon (my knees apparently can't deal with the physical aspects of my job anymore :( ) but I got done with high school when I was fifteen and immediately brain dumped all the maths I'd learned. Got all A's at the time, but never liked the subject enough to try to retain it. Man do I regret that now...
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Tallpine

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2010, 11:14:18 AM »
This. Probably going back into school soon (my knees apparently can't deal with the physical aspects of my job anymore :( ) but I got done with high school when I was fifteen and immediately brain dumped all the maths I'd learned. Got all A's at the time, but never liked the subject enough to try to retain it. Man do I regret that now...

That was my big worry back then.  They wanted me to take an english and a math placement to see if I needed a remedial class.

I just ignored both requirements, and scheduled a basic college freshman algebra course.  I was back up to speed in no time, without really much effort.

I've now forgotten most of it all over again  =(


Actually, the main point of a college education is to teach you to stand in line and fill out forms  ;/   :mad:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2010, 12:00:11 PM »
This. Probably going back into school soon (my knees apparently can't deal with the physical aspects of my job anymore :( ) but I got done with high school when I was fifteen and immediately brain dumped all the maths I'd learned. Got all A's at the time, but never liked the subject enough to try to retain it. Man do I regret that now...
http://www.khanacademy.org/ =). Might help you =).
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roo_ster

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #106 on: December 15, 2010, 01:28:17 PM »
If I were an administrator, I would fire or counsel any teacher who grades on a curve. Mathematically manipulating grades to fit the "standard distribution or curve" is indicative of flawed educational educational practice.

Well, there's curves & there's curves.

I have little problem with fitting the class to a bell curve, since that reflects reality, if not the currently inflated grading system.  Most folks are mediocre, some few are stars, and some few are mouth-breathers.

I recall one instructor who would always use the smartest student's grade on a test as the baseline for 100%.  He explained it this way, "I don't assume infallibility on my part when composing exams."

You're a fourth-year General History student and you've never read Burkhardt? GTFO.

Now, I am as big a fan of Burkhardt of Würzburg as any, but he might be a bit obscure to even most general history students & buffs.   :P

Oh, you mean the Swiss fellow?   :angel:

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Yes to almost all of it.



My point in the OP and the point of the article was not necessarily a rebuke of academic culture or to debate educational philosophy & motivations, but a rebuke of its practices that provide less & less value to more & more people. 

Culture, philosophy, and motivation are more qualitative than quantitative.  Answering a quantitative challenge with, "Well, what about learning for its own sake?" is not to answer the question.

Also, the original article focused on the margins, the deltas, because that is where one finds the most sensitivity.  Kind of like with home mortgages, where the most qualified buyers were already served and mortgaged up before gov't tossed regulation, threat, and money at the system.  Higher education also has had previously-unsuitable jump into the market by means of subsidy(0), regulation(1), and threats(2).






(0) Grants, subsidized student loans.

(1) "The top 10% from any high school shall be admitted to the state school of their choice."

(2) The SAT discriminates unfairly against <insert NAM group>, so you'd better find a way to admit more of them.



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Nightfall

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #107 on: December 15, 2010, 01:49:45 PM »
Now I've got to get my butt back in school.  Anybody got any tips on catching up on algebra skills that have been rusting for 16 years?

Lots of colleges offer lower level, non-credit math for those who have been away from it for awhile. If you're a good book learner, lower level math classes are sometimes offered as self-study so you can move more quickly than a lecture setup.

I started at beginning algebra (definitely not a math person, could barely remember long division), and have worked my way through Calculus II as of yesterday. One thing's for sure, I plan on practicing my my math skills so I don't loose them, considering the torturefest it took to claw my way this deep.  :O
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Tallpine

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #108 on: December 15, 2010, 03:02:27 PM »
Quote
Lots of colleges offer lower level, non-credit math for those who have been away from it for awhile. If you're a good book learner, lower level math classes are sometimes offered as self-study so you can move more quickly than a lecture setup.

Nah - I would just jump right in.

I found my freshman college algebra course to be no harder than my high school sophomore level algebra from 20 years previous - easier, actually, because it was just review.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

MillCreek

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #109 on: December 15, 2010, 04:48:54 PM »
^^^ I have wondered this very sort of thing for ancient book learning. If I had to go back today and re-do my chemistry degrees that I finished almost 30 years ago, I wonder how I would do. I am sure that I have forgotten the majority of what I learned.
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sanglant

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #110 on: December 15, 2010, 04:57:21 PM »
I think it's called "no child left behind"  ;)
yeah, any program requiring summer school, and actually learning the materiel you didn't get the first time is evil. :P


sorry bit of a sore spot. ;)

280plus

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #111 on: December 15, 2010, 06:48:48 PM »
I loved summer school. Just sayin'...  >:D
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BridgeRunner

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #112 on: December 15, 2010, 08:58:59 PM »
subsidy(0), regulation(1)...
(0) Grants, subsidized student loans.

(1) "The top 10% from any high school shall be admitted to the state school of their choice."...

Don't forget health insurance.  If a high school senior is not enrolled in the military or college, he's one car crash away from his and his family's financial destruction.  Getting a job that offers health insurance, particularly health insurance that one can actually afford to use, is pretty hard to do right out of high school, particularly if one is a victim of the college-at-all-costs culture, and is completely unqualified for any sort of trade. 

This is, of course, currently an issue of regulation, about to also be part of a subsidy scheme.


BridgeRunner

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2010, 10:16:42 PM »
yeah, any program requiring summer school, and actually learning the materiel you didn't get the first time is evil. :P

I was in middle school before I learned that in the great wide world out there, not everyone has to go to summer school.  It was part of the standard program at my school.  8:20-4:30 September to June, morning religious studies, afternoon secular.  June-August, 8:20-12, religious studies only.

280plus

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #114 on: December 15, 2010, 10:45:11 PM »
In my case I went to a catholic HS for a while but they didn't have summer school so for SS we had to go to the public school and hang out with all the public school flunkies which, in my particular opinion, was pretty cool. I even got hit up for change by some big dude one time. I lied and told him I didn't have any. He bought it. No tie and sport coat either. It was like visiting the wild wild west for the summer.  :lol:
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roo_ster

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #115 on: December 17, 2010, 07:16:54 AM »
Some more on the topic in the OP:

http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/12/what_happens_when_college_is_o.html

"What Happens When College Is Oversold"

"The fact that a Pell Grant recipient with a 2.1 grade point average studying physical education for five years gets the same aid and sometimes more as a 3.9 point GPA physics, engineering or economics student who finishes in four years has caused a disaster, augmenting such modern problems as grade inflation."
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roo_ster

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