Author Topic: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified  (Read 24731 times)

Boomhauer

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2010, 07:34:53 PM »
People like me wouldn't be having to go get nearly useless Bachelor's degrees if so many jobs didn't require them as square-fillers. That's what annoys me...


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Pharmacology

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2010, 09:58:19 PM »
College is the same as every other thing in life.  You get out of it what you put in.

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2010, 11:11:11 PM »
No, it was downhill on the way back home  =)
Wow, you're the first person I've ever heard admit that.  :lol:
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brimic

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2010, 11:36:29 PM »
Quote
An example or two from specific occupations is useful. In 1992 119,000 waiters and waitresses were college degree holders. By 2008, this number had more than doubled to 318,000.

I wonder what kinds of degrees these people had...
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KD5NRH

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2010, 01:21:21 AM »
I wonder what kinds of degrees these people had...

That's always the other question that needs to be asked.  You can't really expect great earning potential from a degree like "women's studies."   A lot of degrees also border on pointless if you don't plan to pursue them further; a Bachelor's in math, for example, just sounds like you gave up on your PhD way too soon.

I took average of 15 credits/semester, worked 20 hours/week at the local hospital, served on a board of directors (startup organization, lots of work), was a church elder, taught sunday school sometimes, went to summer school, all with a wife and two young children.

See, that was part of my problem; if I hadn't been chasing women, I might have made it to class on occasion.  I certainly would have been able to get by with less work hours if I hadn't spent so much on women.

MicroBalrog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2010, 02:03:39 AM »
So, why exactly is "Women's Studies" so bad?
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De Selby

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2010, 03:00:06 AM »
So, why exactly is "Women's Studies" so bad?

It doesn't convey acceptable doctrines comrade! 

The mechanics of left and right politics are so similar.  Universities are not the bastions of leftism they're made out to be, unless you think Pat Buchanan is centre-left.

Also, job statistics need to account for the failing economy.  Preparing people with all the skills in the world won't show on paper if the economy has been raided by financiers, leaving no increase in jobs for graduates skills or any other skills.
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De Selby

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2010, 03:01:26 AM »
I wonder what kinds of degrees these people had...

Some of them probably had law degrees.  Don't laugh next time the cabbie tells you how he used to be a bigshot lawyer; he might not be bs'ing you.
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Phantom Warrior

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2010, 10:28:21 AM »
So, why exactly is "Women's Studies" so bad?

Little to no real world applicability that I'm aware of.  Basically a stepping stone to go to grad school and then become a professor of women's studies.  Common with a lot of degrees that end in "studies."

Tallpine

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2010, 10:41:29 AM »
So, why exactly is "Women's Studies" so bad?

Because it takes time and attention away from going to class and doing homework  =D
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2010, 11:41:07 AM »
Little to no real world applicability that I'm aware of.  Basically a stepping stone to go to grad school and then become a professor of women's studies.  Common with a lot of degrees that end in "studies."

1. Being a professor is now not a real job somehow?

2. Do you think History, Literature, and Philosophy have no real-world applicability, too?
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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2010, 12:06:34 PM »
So I guess a Bachelors of GENERAL STUDIES is no good either? Long story but that's what I ended up with after being a fine arts major in a place where they effed with the requirements yearly. "You're missing 12 credits of Humanities, we can't give you a BFA but we'll give you a BGS." I was out of time and money, so I took it.  :P
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Phantom Warrior

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2010, 12:12:52 PM »
Being a professor is a job but there are a limited number of jobs in academia.  If you have 20 people with women's studies degree competing for one professorship there are going to be 19 disappointed people.

I guess I'll define real-world applicability in the job seeking sense as "I have a degree in X, someone will hire me to do X."  Compare the page for How to Find Jobs With a History Degree to the page for How to Find Jobs With a Chemistry Degree.  Chemistry has a lengthy list of job options: research, production chemistry, industrial chemicals, teaching, regulatory chemistry, forensic chemistry, biotechnology, toxicology, food chemistry, medicine and patents.  History is generally advising you to gain supplemental skills and highlight your other abilities.  I like history but I think it's fair to say history has less real-world applicability than chemistry.  I can only imagine what the advice for literature or women's studies degrees look like.

Balog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2010, 12:30:47 PM »
If a degree fills your head with nonsense, and does nothing but prepare you to fill other gullible idiot's heads with nonsense it's pointless. Women's Studies being a classic example of this. History can theoretically be useful, learn from the mistakes of the past and all that. It's generally not, as practiced by the revisionist "let's make everything the fault of white males" hyper liberal nuts who dominate pretty much all of the fluffy side of academia.
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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2010, 12:31:21 PM »
Quote
If you have 20 people with women's studies degree competing for one professorship there are going to be 19 disappointed people working at McDonalds.
FTFY  =D
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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2010, 12:34:01 PM »
Hell, I've had people NOT hiring me because I have a degree. They expected I'll only stay until something better opens up. I learned to "dumb down" my applications after a while.  ;)
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2010, 12:41:11 PM »
There are several points, and they go like this:

1. All humanities degrees (a Gender/Women's Studies degree is basically a mix of History, Literature, and philosophy) provide with a variety of writing/textual analysis/work with sources skills. Your local daily journalist is as likely to have a BA in history as he is to have one in journalism.  Many companies do hire humanitarians, especially humanities grad students, for this purpose, even finance and IT companies.

2. To a certain degree, some people go into humanities and General Studies stuff because they're deceived into thinking it's easy because there are no numbers/formulas. They take six years to finish the degree. They deserve not to have jobs.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2010, 12:42:06 PM »
If a degree fills your head with nonsense, and does nothing but prepare you to fill other gullible idiot's heads with nonsense it's pointless. Women's Studies being a classic example of this. History can theoretically be useful, learn from the mistakes of the past and all that. It's generally not, as practiced by the revisionist "let's make everything the fault of white males" hyper liberal nuts who dominate pretty much all of the fluffy side of academia.

Please tell me more about this. I'll be happy to tell my thesis advisor about this in the morning.
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Phantom Warrior

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2010, 01:00:34 PM »
You are making my point for me.  Humanties grads are generally hired for their learned skills in writing and analysis.  Not because they know about about history or philosophy or women's studies.  Whereas hard science grads generally are hired because they know about chemistry or computer science or engineering.

I respect people that go into humanities because they have a genuine interest in history (which I do like) or literature because they want to write (or love literature) or woman's studies because they want to study the history and culture of women.  Good for them.  What bothers me is people that study philosophy who are snotty and pretentious or people that study women's studies because they are man haters or people that study literature so they can talk about the post-pre-modern-neoclassical-monohistorical deconstruction of some really crappy literature.  Blecch.

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2010, 02:14:24 PM »
Education purely for the sake of education is great, as long as you can afford it.  Going to college and racking up $50k or more in student loans to get a degree in something that has no real significantly better paying job prospects than without it is just plain a bad idea. 
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Balog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2010, 03:16:48 PM »
Please tell me more about this. I'll be happy to tell my thesis advisor about this in the morning.

 ;/

Look, I get it. You've devoted your life to academia, and you get defensive when people make negative observations about the field. I understand. But don't try to pretend that things that anyone with even a passing familiarity with the fields in question knows to be obviously true aren't so just because it might reflect negatively on your life choices.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2010, 03:43:32 PM »
My life choices?

I'm not one of these people who barely-passed trough a bachelor's degree and then wonder why they're unemployed. I'm well-employed, and completing my Master's degree this year. I'm not one of the people we're discussing in this thread at all. Not even close.

But no, your understanding of what people do in History departments is flawed.

One: most people who are history or humanities researchers are not left-wing in the sense of being leftist True Believers.

Two: The reason that post-modernist twaddle is so ripe in Humanities schools has little to do with people being stupid, but because of what I call the temptations of the trade.

The simple fact is that for the purpose of studying history in-depth it's useful to remember our ancestors - and in fact many of our contemporaries - defined many of the key concepts that we hold by default for granted, differently. 'Crime', 'Death', 'Childhood', 'Old Age', 'Youth'.  It's tempting, when you study how entirely farking different people can be, to pretend that their 'different' is equally valid as your outlook is. Which it not necessarily is.

Another temptation - of course - is to pretend that the events that unfolded were Inevitable, unfolding according to Scientifically Discoverable Historical Laws. This is real cool, because it lets you pretend that you're a Scientist. This can feed into epic-grade leftotwaddle in turn.

HOWEVER. It is important to remember that none of this occurs because these people are somehow stupid or indoctrinated.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2010, 03:44:26 PM »
And of course, this thread isn't about people who devote their life to academia. It's only about people who are failing at finding jobs OUTSIDE academia.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2010, 04:19:56 PM »
Plenty of people with degrees end up in good jobs that have nothing to do with their field. In my case HVAC and music kind of developed together and HVAC always paid better. My favorite is the girl I knew who majored in microbiology but is now a bank manager. Same with her though. She worked for a bank while she was going to school and never left.
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Balog

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Re: The Great College Degree Scam, Quantified
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2010, 04:24:11 PM »
I know you're succesful in your endeavours, I never implied otherwise. I was merely pointing out problems with the system wherein people base their life around never leaving the isolated and sheltered world of the university. Doing undergrad to get to Masters, Master's to get to Doctorate, Doctorate to stay in the university teaching other people. It's a highly incestuous system, that prepares it's students more for staying in the fairyland of academia than for pursuits in the wider world of jobs that produce something other than little slips of paper saying you've fulfilled the arbitrary paper slip requirements.
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