ADHD meds

[mtnbkr]

This whole "acts differently in kiddos or those with ADD/ADHD" I think is bunk. 

You can think what you want, it doesn't make it correct.

I was diagnosed "hyperactive" back in the 70s (don't think ADD or ADHD existed as a diagnosis back then).  I also remember my behavior back then.  This wasn't youthful energy, I was flighty and prone to distraction by anything that caught my attention (ooh, something shiny!).  I was on Ritalin from 1st grade till about 4th grade.  It certainly didn't stimulate me.  If anything, I felt a bit sluggish, like Benadryl makes me feel now.

Stimulants stimulate.  Folks without ADD in the business world will go to their docs and get scripts for ADD meds that give them more focus, energy, and the ability to get off the X.  And they do the same thing for kids, ADD diagnoses or otherwise.  Which is why there is traffic in ADD meds at competitive schools among functional, non-ADD kids.

I can't speak for the drugs other than Ritalin, but it does has the opposite effect on those with true ADD (or whatever it's called these days).  This has been observed and I can confirm it had that effect on me.  I knew a guy in college who was on Ritalin for ADHD.  I saw him on and off the drug.  He was high strung and all over the place when on it and mellow and focused when taking it (or at least more-so than while un-medicated). 

My parents tried dietary changes, but that had virtually no effect.  I eventually stopped taking Ritalin on my own, but I don't recall when my parents stopped providing it.  I had to learn how to manage my "issue" on my own to truly get it under control.  Unfortunately, it caused me a lot of problems until I got to that point.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Anyways. I think ADD is mostly made up. It might exist, but I'd wager the majority of kids "diagnosed" with it are simply being kids.

If you put a kid with AD-whatever in a group of "normal" kids, it'll be obvious.  Especially in environments where they need to exhibit self control.

I don't disagree that some kids are diagnosed and medicated because it's easier than parenting, but that doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist.  It's kind of like nut allergies...

Chris

[Fitz]

If you put a kid with AD-whatever in a group of "normal" kids, it'll be obvious.  Especially in environments where they need to exhibit self control.

I don't disagree that some kids are diagnosed and medicated because it's easier than parenting, but that doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist.  It's kind of like nut allergies...

Chris

I phrased it poorly. Apologies. I know there's legitimately some kids with issues.

Should have said "does" exist.

What I'm getting at is that, for the majority of kids "diagnosed" with it, it's horseshit.

Much like lactose / gluten intolerance. Nowadays, if a kid farts after drinking milk, mommy loads him up with meds for his "issue"


Case in point: my half brother. There is nothing wrong with him other than he's an *expletive deleted*. Every assholey thing he does is blamed on his "condition," which is supposedly "mild" autism.

Sorry. I've worked with autistic kids. This kid is an *expletive deleted*.

Simply not being able to exhibit "self-control" isn't evidence of a disorder. It's evidence of being a kid


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100817103342.htm

[roo_ster]

mtnbkr:

Don't mistake me for someone who thinks ADD/ADHD do not exist.  I've no doubt that there are folk with underlying biological/brain chemistry components of their behavior that can be treated with meds.  My point is that folk who are obviously not ADD/ADHD take such meds and get very similar results to those who are AD(H)D.

And the effect of stimulants on non-AD(H)D folk is not some "Reefer Madness" caricature.  "Raving biker on meth" is more a function of the raving biker already being prone to such activity.  

[280plus]

The way it was explained in Psych of Adolescence is one side of the brain is acting much faster than the other side. The stimulant supposedly speeds up the lagging side so it can keep up.

[280plus]

Of course that was the opinion they were touting back in the late 80's. Who knows what they're teaching now.

[Jamisjockey]

This whole "acts differently in kiddos or those with ADD/ADHD" I think is bunk. 

Stimulants stimulate.  Folks without ADD in the business world will go to their docs and get scripts for ADD meds that give them more focus, energy, and the ability to get off the X.  And they do the same thing for kids, ADD diagnoses or otherwise.  Which is why there is traffic in ADD meds at competitive schools among functional, non-ADD kids.

If my son didn't need to be on ADHD meds then he wouldn't be on them.
I'm sure you've already decided I don't beat my I'd hard enough or pray hard enough or whatever other judgementalisim you've come up with.  I'll keep my other thoughts to myself.

[Fitz]

If my son didn't need to be on ADHD meds then he wouldn't be on them.
I'm sure you've already decided I don't beat my I'd hard enough or pray hard enough or whatever other judgementalisim you've come up with.  I'll keep my other thoughts to myself.

Jamis, in fairness, rooster explained his position better a few posts above...

[Gewehr98]

This whole "acts differently in kiddos or those with ADD/ADHD" I think is bunk.

Stimulants stimulate.

Actually, the amphetamines/speed really do provide a useful function for an ADD/ADHD kid. 

It was explained to me by my own psychologist that there are two clocks that are normally synced in a person. 

With ADD/ADHD, the internal clock (CPU?) and receptors are running so much faster than the external (Northbridge?) that it's looking for stimulus, anything to keep up.

The missing chemical stimuli (dopamine, norepinephrine) that cause the imbalance raise hell with one's focus, memory, and the ability to control impulses. 

That's where the Ritalin and other versions of speed do their work.  They synchronize everything, and the external appearance is a calm kid/adult.  That's good, up to a point.

I was showing signs of Adult ADHD, and the flight doc wanted to start me on some meds.  I flat out refused, to save my security clearance and flying career. 

I've also seen the difference between a hyperactive kid tagged as ADHD when on Ritalin and when off.  It was a totally different personality, almost zombified.  The drugs shut them down, IMHO.

Reading up on history, many of the most creative and influential people would have been diagnosed as ADD/ADHD.  I shudder to think what would have happened were they medicated.      

[mtnbkr]

mtnbkr:

Don't mistake me for someone who thinks ADD/ADHD do not exist.  I've no doubt that there are folk with underlying biological/brain chemistry components of their behavior that can be treated with meds.  My point is that folk who are obviously not ADD/ADHD take such meds and get very similar results to those who are AD(H)D.

I'm not sure I follow.

ADHD person + Meds = a calmer, more controlled person.

Non-ADHD person + Meds = a stimulated person.

I've seen this both as an ADHD "sufferer" on those meds and seeing non-ADHD people abusing the drugs recreationally.

That is a different effect from the same meds.

And the effect of stimulants on non-AD(H)D folk is not some "Reefer Madness" caricature.  "Raving biker on meth" is more a function of the raving biker already being prone to such activity. 

Agreed.  I've been around people on crystal meth who are normally quite mellow and they're not raving lunatics, just more animated and energetic.  If you didn't know them, you wouldn't know they were on the drug at that time.

Chris

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

you wouldn't know they were on the drug at that time.


they aren't doing enough

[roo_ster]

Actually, the amphetamines/speed really do provide a useful function for an ADD/ADHD kid. 
...
The missing chemical stimuli (dopamine, norepinephrine) that cause the imbalance raise hell with one's focus, memory, and the ability to control impulses.   

No doubt, they are useful in many cases. 

My position is that I suspect they are doing similar things for other folk.  For instance, when I was required to take stimulants, I, too, had improved "focus, memory, and the ability to control impulses."  I was very tempted to continue use. 

I don't think I am the only one.  Heck, I know I am not, given the illicit trade in ADD meds amongst the most competitive high schools around here, and theiruse by those who can afford docs to write them scrips for ADD meds, steroids/testosterone, HGH, & such.

Perhaps...they are just more useful for those with AD(H)D?  I can function without stimulants.  I function at cognitive tasks better with them (at least short term).  Some kids and adults can barely function without them. 

WRT personality changes...not just ADD meds.  We have a neighbor whose daughter was born with a neurological issue such that she has to take some heavy psychoactive drugs.  The mother says, "I really don't know my girl, as she has been on medication that changes her personality in profound ways since before she could talk."  Sad, that.

you wouldn't know they were on the drug at that time.


they aren't doing enough

I'll take your word on that.

If my son didn't need to be on ADHD meds then he wouldn't be on them.
I'm sure you've already decided I don't beat my I'd hard enough or pray hard enough or whatever other judgementalisim you've come up with.  I'll keep my other thoughts to myself.

Great Scot, get a hold of yourself.

[BlueStarLizzard]

ADHD meds taken recreationally has been a thing for a long time. I remember the kerfluffle about how the Foo Fighters were "glorifying" ritalin abuse with the song "This is a call" when ... that's not at all what the song is about.

Anyways. I think ADD is mostly made up. It might exist, but I'd wager the majority of kids "diagnosed" with it are simply being kids.

Come hang out with me someday and I... Oh! Something,shiny!!

[280plus]

yea, I looked after an ADHD kid for two weeks at boy scout camp. I agree with the "zombified" comment. It was my job to administer his meds. It was quite obvious to me he did NOT want to take them so after a couple days I stopped. The kid was fine and seemed quite normal. Active yes but a real good kid. Probably one of the only ones that wasn't a little A-hole in my book by the end of the two weeks. I almost hated to see him go back to his parents and back on the drugs. I really felt for him.

[AJ Dual]

yea, I looked after an ADHD kid for two weeks at boy scout camp. I agree with the "zombified" comment. It was my job to administer his meds. It was quite obvious to me he did NOT want to take them so after a couple days I stopped. The kid was fine and seemed quite normal. Active yes but a real good kid. Probably one of the only ones that wasn't a little A-hole in my book by the end of the two weeks. I almost hated to see him go back to his parents and back on the drugs. I really felt for him.

That's the problem.

The ADHD kids who get zombied, and the family/teachers/doctors put up with it because they're just too lazy to deal with the behavior.

But then the zombied kids make other people worry, and people are judgmental about the ADHD kid who's vastly improved, and still "themselves" on the meds, and is having a vastly better quality of life, and can sit still long enough to be told a story, read a book, learn something...

[SteveS]

yea, I looked after an ADHD kid for two weeks at boy scout camp. I agree with the "zombified" comment. It was my job to administer his meds. It was quite obvious to me he did NOT want to take them so after a couple days I stopped. The kid was fine and seemed quite normal. Active yes but a real good kid. Probably one of the only ones that wasn't a little A-hole in my book by the end of the two weeks. I almost hated to see him go back to his parents and back on the drugs. I really felt for him.

This can be quite dangerous.  Many psychotropic medications should not be abruptly discontinued and should be tapered off carefully under the supervision of a medical professional.  Are you one of those?

As a parent, I would be more than a little angry that someone substituted their own judgment for mine and, presumably, my child's doctor.

[280plus]

Well, this is just one more reason I prefer to not be in charge of other people's kids. Nobody made me aware of that. I think that trip was in fact the last time I ever took charge of anybody else's kids anyways. Going back to the little A-holes part. The kid didn't want to take his meds. I told him we would try it without them and see how he did. He did fine. End of story. He's probably pushing 30 now. I wonder how he made out in the end.

[zxcvbob]

"Out through the night an' the whispering breezes
To the place where they keep The Imaginary Diseases..."

[BlueStarLizzard]

Adderall can be taken on an as needed basis.

This is actually something I discussed with my doctor the last time I had a prescription.

As long as it's not the time release type (which is what makes this a bitch, because that's the type that gets abused so is more highly monitored) your only concern is physical addiction.
The idea was I could take it on days I had stuff to do or go to work and go off it on my own time.

Which was great in theroy, but I still never took the stuff.

Which is not to say you had any right to take the kid off the meds. You are not a doctor or a parent. That's not your call.

[BlueStarLizzard]

There is another side to ADHD that never gets mentioned in these threads and it's something I want to point out to those of you who think this is imanginary.

It is a desease that affects your ability to focus.

Affects is the key word. It does not mean someone with ADHD cannot focus or concentrate. In fact, the oppesite side of the coin is becoming focused on something to the exclusion of anything else and irrational responces to disruptions of that focus.

Most people with ADHD have something they do really really well or do habitually, even when they shouldn't, and have difficulty multitasking or doing anything that is not their thing.

I read. Seriously. You give me a book I want to read and I will sit for as long as it lasts, and go looking for another one when I'm done. If I'm in a good mood and you interupt me, I can and do get pretty sharp. If I'm cranky, tired or just am not intrested, watch out. I will snap. I've gotten a lot better over the years, because I check myself, but if I get pressured I still can get pretty nasty.
The threashold for dealing with frustration is much lower. When my focus gets snapped from one thing to a new thing I get frustrated.
The neighbor kid was all about video games and skateboarding. When he got frustrated, things got broken.
I just cry or have a hissy fit.

Scedules and routin helps. A lot. Being able to function increases with a schedule. Having order imposed on you sort of decreases the frustration levels and gives you a seperate focus, focus on the routin, not the task.

Disrupt the routin and watch out. That's another trigger for the frustration.

The hissy fits, crying, temper tantrums are all symptoms of that irrational responce to getting frustrated.
And it is irrational. There is no good reason for me to SCREAM at my Dad to shut up and leave me alone. Much less, that it's a good book. I get teary and stressed out if my bosses want me to change the order in which I clean the kennel. If you take me off my routine, I have to take time to regroup and figure out how to continue. I can't just go with the flow.

At the same time, when I am focused on something you want me to do, it will get done. People with ADHD tend to be good with puzzles or activities that can be a puzzle. It's not so much being good at it as it's the fact they will not walk away till they get it.

So, anyway, that's the other side.

It kind of gets annoying when you guys rant about made up deaseses and wild kids that can't do anything but run in circles. There is a lot more to it and people on this board have it.
Please, have some respect.