Americans versus anti-Americans

[Perd Hapley]

Submitted for your commentary:

This morning, a local talk radio host opined that certain notions were anti-American, and should be denounced as such. I called, and said that I was glad to hear him say so, as I don't expect much improvement until we begin to think of the battle between right and left as a battle between American ideas and anti-American ideas. We are not conservatives or libertarians, we are Americans, promoting American ideas.

Would you agree?

[Tallpine]

Not entirely.

There are some "conservative" positions which I find to be anti-liberty, and therefore anti-American.

[Perd Hapley]

I think that may be another reason why we need to identify as Americans, rather than conservatives, or other labels. 

[MicroBalrog]

I know my opinion is irrelevant here, but consider:

There always were people in US politics whose positions were what can be evaluated as... leftist.

Would you view men like FDR and LBJ as anti-American? What about Dewey? And Wilson? And what about Hamilton?

[Monkeyleg]

Before anyone can talk about what's "American" and what's not, it's first necessary to define what being "American" means.

It can be purely geographic, but that doesn't really distinguish much. One might as well say that he's an Ohioan, as it would be more specific.

Almost everyone will argue that he/she loves "America," but what is it that is loved? The physical space he/she occupies? The physical comforts? The money? The freedom to move from point A to point B? Any of those can be had in France or Germany or England.

America is distinguished by its founding document, the Constitution, a political document unlike any other in the world. The freedoms ensured in the Constitution and the limitations on government imposed by it are what make America unique.

Therefore, to be un-American is to violate the Constitution, or desire to twist its words to mean what they do not, to use it for means that it was never intended. There have been and are now plenty of people willing and trying to remake the Constitution to suit their ends, and those people are in both parties, and those people are un-American.

[Perd Hapley]

I know my opinion is irrelevant here, but consider:

There always were people in US politics whose positions were what can be evaluated as... leftist.

Would you view men like FDR and LBJ as anti-American? What about Dewey? And Wilson? And what about Hamilton?

I would have to study each of them in more detail.  I just read some scary things by Hamilton, in Madison's Const. Conv. notes.

However, I'm not claiming that this view of politics would be just as useful in other time periods. It is evident now, that the ideological battlefield is so arrayed, whether or not it was in the past.

[Perd Hapley]

America is distinguished by its founding document, the Constitution, a political document unlike any other in the world. The freedoms ensured in the Constitution and the limitations on government imposed by it are what make America unique.

Therefore, to be un-American is to violate the Constitution, or desire to twist its words to mean what they do not, to use it for means that it was never intended. There have been and are now plenty of people willing and trying to remake the Constitution to suit their ends, and those people are in both parties, and those people are un-American.

Er, something like that, but America predates her Constitution.  I wouldn't say the Constitution is the end-all, be-all of what it means to be American.

[kgbsquirrel]

Since I have nothing constructive to contribute at this time I'll just say this...

McCarthy called, he wants his catchphrase back. 

[Monkeyleg]

In re-reading my post, I'd say it's very incomplete, but it's a start.

Fistful, those who came before the Constitution--especially those who came for their particular freedoms--also define what is American.

The issue is exemplified by the battle over the Ground Zero mosque in which those who usually try to obliterate every vestige of religion in every public place are now using the First Amendment as a shield to buttress their arguments. They're perverting the Constitution to advance their agenda. (The imam trying to build the mosque doesn't help his cause by arguing that there are strip joints and betting parlors in the area, apparently oblivious to the fact that we were attacked by fanatical Muslims, not lap dancers and bookies).

[BReilley]

Not entirely.

There are some "conservative" positions which I find to be anti-liberty, and therefore anti-American.

For clarity purposes: would you say that anything anti-liberty is anti-American?

Er, something like that, but America predates her Constitution.  I wouldn't say the Constitution is the end-all, be-all of what it means to be American.

Exactly so - if it were, we wouldn't ever amend it.
The Constitution is an expression of American values as they could best be put to words.

Trouble comes when people violate its spirit by bending its words to suit their own purposes.

I believe there is a a place and a time for cries of "anti-American", and that is here and now.  It is quite plain to see that those in power are using the power of office(i.e. the government, or if you prefer, "big guys with guns") to extort from the general public.  That is directly contrary to the idea of America - which was created for the purpose of freeing the general public from the whims of an abusive and capricious government(or in this case, more of an organized crime ring).

[Tallpine]

For clarity purposes: would you say that anything anti-liberty is anti-American?

Philosophically, yes - from the standpoint of historical practice, unfortunately no. :(

[Ned Hamford]

Would you view men like FDR and LBJ as anti-American? What about Dewey? And Wilson? And what about Hamilton?

Yes, Yes,Yes,Yes, Mostly... got a soft spot for Hamilton, different times and whatnot, pragmatism... they were Making America after all, hard to use the same qualifiers for the founding fathers.

[grampster]

Anti Americanism is attempts by anyone who is a legislator or a citizen who supports attempts to subvert the Constitution by either passing or promoting laws deliberately defying its principals or slyly going around its principals.

  If a thing is a worthy proposition, then sell it on its merits.  If it appears to be at odds with Constitutional principals, then work to amend the Constitution.  That's why the provision to amend is in there.  It shouldn't be easy.  If it was, what's the point of the rule of law;  The Constitution is the foundation of the house of law.  The Constitution can be a living document, but only if it's principals are followed.  Strict constructionism allows for Constitutional modification, but using the framework in the Constitution.

I think most of what segments of the population have supported and what various and sundry politicians have been doing with respect to laws that have been passed for around 80 years is Anti American.  We have not been a true Constitutional Republic for a long time.

The Supreme Court should have squelched much of what is law today.  Several justices saying that their decisions should be influenced by what is done in other countries is also Anti American.

[TommyGunn]

I am very pro-American and I despise everything that is Un-American or Anti-American.




And if the rest of the 300+ million Americans agreed with me, elections would be unnecessary and Fox News would not be controversial. 

[longeyes]

America is a culture, with a history, with warts, some rather recent.  Our specific form of Constitution-based political liberty, enshrined in our Founding, is what ultimately matters, not some geography-based form of "race identification."

[BReilley]

The Supreme Court should have squelched much of what is law today.  Several justices saying that their decisions should be influenced by what is done in other countries is also Anti American.

But who are they to go against "an emerging consensus"?

[grampster]

An "emerging consensus" is anti American.  Rule of law VS emerging consensus.

[longeyes]

Emerging consensus is a euphemism for global mobocracy (with strings held by the political elite).

[Perd Hapley]

America is a culture, with a history, with warts, some rather recent.  Our specific form of Constitution-based political liberty, enshrined in our Founding, is what ultimately matters, not some geography-based form of "race identification."

Can you expand on that?  I hope you don't think I'm going for "100% Americanism," of the Ku Klux Klan type.

[Monkeyleg]

Can you expand on that?  I hope you don't think I'm going for "100% Americanism," of the Ku Klux Klan type.

So that's where the bed sheets disappeared to.

[longeyes]

Just that Americanism, to me anyway, is about our legacy political ideals.

[zahc]

I've often thought to myself, that although my political views might be seen as radical nowadays, really, I should describe my political philosophy of radically smaller government, radically freer markets, and radically fewer laws, as "American".

Basically, to me American means Enlightenment principles of rule of Law, with the added aspect that the rights are derived from our creator and not the King. 

[grampster]

Part of being an American is the right to fail and having to deal with the fallout from that mainly by yourself.

[BridgeRunner]

"American" means being a citizen of one of the United States of America or of DC. 

Condemning others' ideas as "Anti-American" because one doesn't agree with them is pretty much a godwin tactic, but with fewer swastikas and wrapped in a flag.  It's a great conversation ender, but isn't actually good for much of anything else.

I do think my national identity is more than mere lifelong residence within geopolitical boundaries, but I choose that over reducing my nationality to a bit of propaganda.

[French G.]

I'll worry about being Virginian, y'all figure the rest of the mess out, holler if you need armed support.