Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: roo_ster on January 24, 2011, 11:27:47 PM
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I have one of these already:
36" Elephant Octagon Cane - Plain
http://www.enasco.com/product/C07434N
and one of these:
66" Plain Wood Octagon Stick and Sorting Pole
http://www.enasco.com/product/C00111N
en route.
I intend to:
1. Open up the crook of the cane with some boiling water
2. Sand both down a bit to smooth out some rough spots
3. Install metal (brass, coper, or steel) ferrules/end caps on both
4. Finish them with either tung oil or naval spar varnish
Installing the ferrule will involve me and a utility knife carving the end down to a tight fit, some sort of adhesive, and likely a brass nail.
A fancy one: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=63218&cat=1,330,43243
Less fancy: http://www.treelineusa.com/walking-sticks-and-canes/stick-tips/carbide-hiking-stick-system.html
Even less fancy: http://www.pexsupply.com/Cello-WP17-16-1-Copper-Cap-953000-p
My top question is "Do I finish the wood and then install the ferrule (understanding that J Weld or some other sort of glue will hold it on) or do I install the ferrule and then finish the wood?"
My concerns are twofold:
1. If the wood is not finished under the ferrule, water will get in there and eventually ruin the end of the wooden cane.
2. Will adhesives stick to a varnish or tung oil finish?
Some ferrules use only a tight fit, a hole in the side of the ferrule, and a brass nail though that hole.
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1. If the wood is not finished under the ferrule, water will get in there and eventually ruin the end of the wooden cane.
What I like to do under fittings, is soak some thin superglue into the wood, then use thicker superglue to attach the fitting if necessary. You're basically sealing the wood with a hard acrylic.
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My top question is "Do I finish the wood and then install the ferrule (understanding that J Weld or some other sort of glue will hold it on) or do I install the ferrule and then finish the wood?"
Chicken, egg. Egg, chicken. Ahhhh, the eternal debate rages on... =D
Brad
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Chicken, egg. Egg, chicken. Ahhhh, the eternal debate rages on... =D
Brad
Do people use JB Weld to fix chickens?
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Unless you're going to cover the wood under the ferrule completely with glass bedding or superglue, I'd finish it. (I'd use pure tung oil - not tung oil "finish" - the same way I do gunstocks.)
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My ferrels on my HI khurkuri have a black hardened tar filler that keeps it together
JB weld / PC7 / gorilla glue would be the modern solution
nice sticks:
http://newtlivesayknives.com/WEAPON_CANE-HICKORY.htm
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Gorilla Glue has a solvent property that would likely power right through any kind of finish, even spar varnich (to which it would probably bond chemically due to the polyurethane). Problem is it foams up as it cure and the spillage/overage can be a complete bear to remove.
Brad
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Unless you're going to cover the wood under the ferrule completely with glass bedding or superglue, I'd finish it. (I'd use pure tung oil - not tung oil "finish" - the same way I do gunstocks.)
Hmm, I think JB Marine Weld may be the way to go, as it talks about its use as a water sealer, laminate, etc.
http://jbweld.net/products/marine.php
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjbweld.net%2Fimg%2Fmarineweld_lrg.jpg&hash=940cdee14e85ac468126aa96bda12c2a3e9e226d)
In this case, I would install the ferrule first, making sure all wood under it was coated with the JB Marine Weld, in addition to using it as a filler and adhesive. When I finish the wood, use masking tape to keep the tung oil off the metal (though some sites say it can be used as a rust-inhibiting metal finish).
I think I made a mistake in buying this:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100178851/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homedepot.com%2Fcatalog%2FproductImages%2F300%2Fa9%2Fa9032e50-7136-4045-a571-8a17521044a7_300.jpg&hash=76662f99bb23d190e8c918c969f086146b452258)
Maybe I ought to return it and buy some of this:
http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realmilkpaint.com%2Fimages%2Fprod-oil.jpg&hash=33786139374d1fdefacbbd7fdbdfb11fe43099b7)
And some of this to cut it:
http://www.realmilkpaint.com/citrus.html
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realmilkpaint.com%2Fimages%2Fprod-Citrus.jpg&hash=52f4b4e6893f3da299c98cf5386b907731895fb6)
I do believe the cane is hickory. Would this require more than usual thinning of the tung oil? Most instructions say to thin the first few coats 1:1 unless it is a really dense when it ought to be 2:1 thinner:oil.
Cool! I just learned some use it on flooring. We just had our wood floors refinished (poly finish), but the sources also talk about using it on concrete. Schweet! If I ever buy a house built on a slab, I'll rip out any nasty flooring, prep the slab, and finish in tung oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil
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I don't think much of the citrus solvents.
When I finish a gunstock, I use pure tung oil from Woodcraft. After sanding and feathering the wood, the first coat is 3 parts "odorless" mineral spirits and 1 part tung oil, slathered on heavily; I keep the stock wet for 15 or 20 minutes; the idea is to force the wood to absorb as much as possible, and as deeply as possible. (Which isn't as deep as you'd think.) I let it drip off for a while, then wipe off the excess before it gets tacky. Let dry thoroughly.
Second coat, 2 parts mineral spirits to 1 part tung oil . . . then 1:1, then several thin coats of pure tung oil interspersed with wet sanding, using (you guessed it) more tung oil on the sandpaper. Later coats use less and less tung oil, until just a couple of drops will coat the entire stock. You stop when you have the desired degree of gloss. If you want a really shiny finish, there are buffing compounds you can use . . .
Be sure to wipe off the excess at the end of each coat, and let things dry between coats, or else you'll have a thick, gooey, mess.
Adding a little Japan drier (got mine at Home Depot) will help each coat dry faster, but I still allow 24-48 hours between coats, depending on the weather.
Oh, and be careful how you dispose of the rags - they can start a fire.
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Oh, and be careful how you dispose of the rags - they can start a fire.
What's a little spontaneous combustion among friends.
Brad
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I don't think much of the citrus solvents.
When I finish a gunstock, I use pure tung oil from Woodcraft. After sanding and feathering the wood, the first coat is 3 parts "odorless" mineral spirits and 1 part tung oil, slathered on heavily; I keep the stock wet for 15 or 20 minutes; the idea is to force the wood to absorb as much as possible, and as deeply as possible. (Which isn't as deep as you'd think.) I let it drip off for a while, then wipe off the excess before it gets tacky. Let dry thoroughly.
Second coat, 2 parts mineral spirits to 1 part tung oil . . . then 1:1, then several thin coats of pure tung oil interspersed with wet sanding, using (you guessed it) more tung oil on the sandpaper. Later coats use less and less tung oil, until just a couple of drops will coat the entire stock. You stop when you have the desired degree of gloss. If you want a really shiny finish, there are buffing compounds you can use . . .
Be sure to wipe off the excess at the end of each coat, and let things dry between coats, or else you'll have a thick, gooey, mess.
Adding a little Japan drier (got mine at Home Depot) will help each coat dry faster, but I still allow 24-48 hours between coats, depending on the weather.
Oh, and be careful how you dispose of the rags - they can start a fire.
Now, that there ^^^ is a post & a half!
Thanks!
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Second coat, 2 parts mineral spirits to 1 part tung oil . . . then 1:1, then several thin coats of pure tung oil interspersed with wet sanding, using (you guessed it) more tung oil on the sandpaper. Later coats use less and less tung oil, until just a couple of drops will coat the entire stock. You stop when you have the desired degree of gloss. If you want a really shiny finish, there are buffing compounds you can use . . .
What grit sandpaper?
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400 - 600 grit.
Coarser than 400, and you'll start to see scratches.
Finer than 600, and you're just polishing.
But this varies by technique, type of wood, how thick you've already built up the finish, etc. YMMV.
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a liquid resin epoxy will seal the wood better than most sealers/finishes, and are known for being a decent adhesive as well. raw wood would be ideal for both aspects. i like the idea of copper for the cap, but steel will outlast the others.
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A while back at Hobby Lobby I found some "Resin Epoxy" mix that I absolutely love to use.
It's basically a 1:1 mix that forms a super durable shell.
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Since I discovered Fiddes Hard Wax Oil, I've not used Tung Oil, Spar Varnish or Boiled Linseed Oil or anything else. I used it on a hardwood floor and was so impressed, I use it on my walking sticks and gun stocks.