Post by: MillCreek on September 29, 2008, 08:53:44 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 08:54:17 AM
This just in: the House rejected the bailout package. Stocks down 500 points.
The DOW was briefly down 690...!
Post by: buzz_knox on September 29, 2008, 08:54:45 AM
Post by: Nitrogen on September 29, 2008, 08:55:21 AM
This just in: the House rejected the bailout package. Stocks down 500 points.
My faith in government restored. I wonder how long THIS will last?
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 29, 2008, 08:58:37 AM
This just in: the House rejected the bailout package. Stocks down 500 points.
My faith in government restored. I wonder how long THIS will last?
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 09:08:13 AM
Post by: trapperready on September 29, 2008, 09:13:28 AM
Quote
If it didn't go to the Senate, Obama didn't have a chance to vote "present".
I don't think he ever voted "present" on purpose. He just kept mumbling "president", because he likes how that sounds.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 29, 2008, 09:17:45 AM
Quote
If it didn't go to the Senate, Obama didn't have a chance to vote "present".
I don't think he ever voted "present" on purpose. He just kept mumbling "president", because he likes how that sounds.
Lol, good one.
My faith in our system of government stayed nominal today rather than slipping yet another point. F the stock market, taxes aren't there to bail out bad economic times. They're there to protect the nation from external war-like or god-like forces and for truly disastrous relief projects when food doesn't grow and the world is like the first book of the Dark Tower series.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 29, 2008, 09:20:40 AM
They are holding the vote open, trying to persuade people to change their votes.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 09:23:40 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown_1483
They are holding the vote open, trying to persuade people to change their votes.
They are holding the vote open, trying to persuade people to change their votes.
The gavel fell already. The Dems are stamping their feet?
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 29, 2008, 09:24:33 AM
Quote
More than enough members of the House had cast votes to defeat the Bush administration-pushed bill, but the vote was held open for a while, apparently as efforts were under way to persuade people to change their vote.
Post by: yesitsloaded on September 29, 2008, 09:24:47 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 09:27:32 AM
Pelosi doesn't want to see it die. More than a few democrats said no to this one.
Then maybe she shouldn't have had her liberals stuff a 3 page bill with another 97 pages of porkbarrel entitlements, handouts to ACORN, La Raza and the Urban League, and all sorts of other garbage.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on September 29, 2008, 09:28:05 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 09:28:54 AM
did they get the earmark ACORN funding cut out this weekend?
Not last I checked. It still had the "give lots of preferential stuff to minorities" bits in it, too.
Pelosi also called for a voice vote. Coward. That got knocked down.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 29, 2008, 09:32:30 AM
Put behind a link because of naughty language.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 29, 2008, 09:36:57 AM
Need to clean out some of the stupid rats that don't know how to invest, I like the sign. At least it gives 'em instructions.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 29, 2008, 09:45:38 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 29, 2008, 10:01:09 AM
http://cspanjunkie.org/?p=635
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 29, 2008, 10:10:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvFByVfc8S0&feature=related
Post by: Intune on September 29, 2008, 10:15:41 AM
blaming repubs for the crisis. Smart. "How To Influence People & Curry Favor" must be sold out... Can Obama supporters stop chanting "Socialism NOW!" long enough to figure out that this bill was detrimental to the American citizen?
93 Dems just went up in my book and a bunch of Repubs who votes YES went down. I need to find out how my TN reps voted. Party lines might get a bit blurred this Nov for Intune.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on September 29, 2008, 10:18:08 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 29, 2008, 10:20:01 AM
93 Dems voted NO and Empress Pelosi made a highly partisan speech BEFORE the vote blaming repubs for the crisis. Smart. "How To Influence People & Curry Favor" must be sold out...
Yeah, rumor is that they had the votes to pass the bill before Pelosi botched it with her speech. I'm glad she did it, but dayum, is she ever incompetent.
blaming repubs for the crisis. Smart. "How To Influence People & Curry Favor" must be sold out... Post by: Intune on September 29, 2008, 10:20:23 AM
Post by: makattak on September 29, 2008, 10:22:22 AM
93 Dems voted NO and Empress Pelosi made a highly partisan speech BEFORE the vote blaming repubs for the crisis. Smart. "How To Influence People & Curry Favor" must be sold out...
Yeah, rumor is that they had the votes to pass the bill before Pelosi botched it with her speech. I'm glad she did it, but dayum, is she ever incompetent. blaming repubs for the crisis. Smart. "How To Influence People & Curry Favor" must be sold out... This is a year of surprises for me.
I had never thought I would wish Hillary had won the nomination.
Now I'm thinking something I thought I'd never say:
"Thank you, Nancy Pelosi"
Post by: agricola on September 29, 2008, 10:24:08 AM
Post by: slingshot on September 29, 2008, 10:24:31 AM
What happens now?
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 10:25:51 AM
Voters overwhelmingly have indicated their displeasure with this bill. My question is.... are voters not informed? Don't we understand? Did the Congress do a poor job of explaining what the bill actually does? What happens if no bill is passed? What is the merit of an insurance approach? The Democrats say it won't work.
What happens now?
What happens now?
What happens now is a long overdue correction. And instead of the toxic slop of mortgages being handed to fiscally responsible people, it gets dumped over the heads of the people who caused it.
Maybe they'll learn something.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 29, 2008, 10:33:57 AM
What happens now?
I think what happens now is they try again, maybe with a slightly different approach or a slightly different bill. The people at the top want this bailout, and I doubt they'll give up on trying to get it.
Post by: Oldskoolfan on September 29, 2008, 10:40:27 AM
Pelosi doesn't want to see it die. More than a few democrats said no to this one.
Then maybe she shouldn't have had her liberals stuff a 3 page bill with another 97 pages of porkbarrel entitlements, handouts to ACORN, La Raza and the Urban League, and all sorts of other garbage.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 10:42:43 AM
Pelosi doesn't want to see it die. More than a few democrats said no to this one.
Then maybe she shouldn't have had her liberals stuff a 3 page bill with another 97 pages of porkbarrel entitlements, handouts to ACORN, La Raza and the Urban League, and all sorts of other garbage.
Michelle Malkin's blog broke it down quite nicely, and mention of that has been all over the news for days. It was stuffed with pork. Including gifts to the very groups that threatened banks with accusations of redlining if they did not grant NINJA loans to "disadvantaged" and "low income" people to get them in houses...that, surprise!...they couldn't keep up with the payments on!
Post by: Kwelz on September 29, 2008, 11:00:34 AM
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 11:03:17 AM
People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing. As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
Did you actually read the bill? The only one I see saying that are Pelosi and company.
$700,000,000,000. Look at how big that number is.
Post by: Northwoods on September 29, 2008, 11:07:29 AM
People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing. As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
NO WE DON'T!!I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
I want to see this bailout go down in flames. I want the irresposible businesses to fail. If that leads to another "Great Depression" (hint: it won't) then I'm OK with that. Even with the possibility of me winding up as part of the collateral damage.
Nobody learns anything without some pain being involved. This country needs the pain from these failures to teach us the truth: Debt is Dumb, and Cash is King. Lehman, Merril, Bear, et al failed becuase they waaayyy overleveraged themeselves and failed to maintain even minimal cash reserves. If they'd kept to the old 12:1 rule they'd have been able to weather this storm just fine.
Post by: Kwelz on September 29, 2008, 11:13:18 AM
Call me crazy but I want to be able to make my house payment, buy a car, have credit, and otherwise live my life.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 11:16:31 AM
I am not with Pelosi and Co. In fact I am heavily involved with the republican Party. However I disagree with people who say they are fine with the country hitting another Depression. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. I have family that work at banks that aren't in bad shape (hint they aren't tellers) and trust me people a lot smarter than any of us agree that something has to be done or we are going to be in a world of hurt.
Call me crazy but I want to be able to make my house payment, buy a car, have credit, and otherwise live my life.
Call me crazy but I want to be able to make my house payment, buy a car, have credit, and otherwise live my life.
Again. DID YOU READ THE BILL?
Because all I'm hearing right now, "Oh noes, another depression if we don't pass it!" is just parroting the talking points. Did you analyze what the bill will and will not do yourself, or are you repeating what someone told you?
Stop and think about it.
Post by: makattak on September 29, 2008, 11:16:46 AM
People really need to take the time to read up on a bill before they cheer about it failing. As much as it pains me to say this, WE NEED THIS BILL!
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
I don't think a lot of people realize the implications of the market going the direction it is. Business are not going to be able to cover daily and weekly expenses, banks are going to no longer be able to loan to companies or individuals and it will only get worse from there.
We can point fingers and cuss and argue about the cause and whom is to blame for this, but if we don't fix it now then we are all in trouble.
Perhaps something should be done to aid the market as the government is the cause of this current potential crisis. However, this bill is NOT a good solution.
I am an economist by training. I have even lectured on Financial Crises specifically.
This is not a crisis yet. Not by a long shot. It does, however have the potential to become a financial crisis. A little more financial aversion to risk will not be detrimental in the long run.
In the short run, this will hurt.
Having the government take over the financial system will hurt FAR MORE in the long run.
This is the nature of government, they offer short term solutions to long term problems...
It will be decidedly bad if we fall into a recession. We will not have another Great Depression unless the government decides to screw around and kill the economy like they did during the first one. (For those who don't know: FDR didn't save us from the depression, he turned it INTO the Great Depression. His policies were what prolonged the depression throughout the 1930's).
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 29, 2008, 11:19:53 AM
Remove the shackles that force lending institutions to give mortgages to "minorities" who don't have down payments and can't afford houses, just because they are "minorities."
Allow stupid investors to fail and become chum for good investors.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 29, 2008, 11:22:02 AM
The only thing that saves us going forward is de-regulation.
Remove the shackles that force lending institutions to give mortgages to "minorities" who don't have down payments and can't afford houses, just because they are "minorities."
Allow stupid investors to fail and become chum for good investors.
Remove the shackles that force lending institutions to give mortgages to "minorities" who don't have down payments and can't afford houses, just because they are "minorities."
Allow stupid investors to fail and become chum for good investors.
And yet this bill gave more incentives to those same groups! It was like adding gasoline and matches. ACORN and other groups would have gotten more money to help put more people, down-payment-free, in houses they could never pay for.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 29, 2008, 11:47:26 AM
Post by: The Annoyed Man on September 29, 2008, 02:10:06 PM
Now local banks are actually seeing increases in deposits as they are not in the game and as such are not having their houses burn down around them. 95% of all mortgages are not in default.
By privatizing profit and socializing losses you are creating economic fascism by definition.
This bill or anyone like it is the wrong solution to this problem. The free market solution must be allowed to prevail. By doing so the country will rebound faster and more robustly. Banks make their money by lending. Don't let the Doomsayers convince you that credit will freeze up. It will not. But it will become unavailable to those who can neither pay for it or use it wisely. Which is a wonderful thing.
Jim
Post by: Intune on September 29, 2008, 03:01:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68D9XrqyrWo
Yeah, we're gonna bail yer butt out now. NOT!
Post by: Perd Hapley on September 29, 2008, 07:02:08 PM
Post by: Intune on September 30, 2008, 02:02:32 AM
"Hold their feet to the fire?" Screw that. That's what we should have done 10-15 years ago. Now we're at the tar & feather, run out of town on a rail or BURN THE WITCH point. Tax payers are tired of being buggered. Folks are MAD.
There is one section of society not royally pissed off. They have their hands out & live on the dole. Barry is their savior.
I challenge any Obama/Biden supporter to defend the Dems on this issue. The gauntlet is thrown. Any Barry supporter. And if you can't muster a plausible defense for this asinine behavior how the hell can you vote for a guy that would implement this x10?
Sickening.
Post by: roo_ster on September 30, 2008, 05:17:06 AM
Because we'll be in the same place a few years from now, shelling out big bucks, unless Congress (at the minimum) deal with the gov't-side causes.
Post by: roo_ster on September 30, 2008, 09:46:08 AM
I thought as much. Too many solid companies took it in the shorts and the sharp guys are busy buying them up.
Not the end of the world.
Symbol Price Change
S&P 500
1,155.30 +48.91 +4.42%
Symbol Price Change
DJIA
10,733.66 +368.21 +3.55%
Post by: slingshot on September 30, 2008, 10:28:09 AM
Post by: Intune on September 30, 2008, 10:33:49 AM
Well, as of 1345CDT, the markets are back up about half of what they lost yesterday.
I thought as much. Too many solid companies took it in the shorts and the sharp guys are busy buying them up.
Not the end of the world.
Great, now what do I do with this bowl of gruel? Guess I'll take this noose, er, I mean rope back to the hardware store. Sheesh, where's the Hale-Bopp guys when one needs a good doomsday story...
I thought as much. Too many solid companies took it in the shorts and the sharp guys are busy buying them up.
Not the end of the world.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on September 30, 2008, 04:41:40 PM
WASHINGTON, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate agreed to vote on a $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday night that will include an increase in the amount of bank deposits insured by the FDIC to $250,000 from $100,000, a Senate aide said on Tuesday.
Post by: Northwoods on September 30, 2008, 05:07:34 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN3047749420080930
WASHINGTON, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate agreed to vote on a $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday night that will include an increase in the amount of bank deposits insured by the FDIC to $250,000 from $100,000, a Senate aide said on Tuesday.
I have no problem with the increase in FDIC insurance limits. It's been $100k for, what, 2 decades at least? Long as I can remember anyway. But, I guess this means I need to call my senators to tell them to oppose the bailout. If they want to change the "mark to market" rules on the sub-prime mortgage bonds, extend FHA style insurance to the mortgages in those sub-prime bonds, and suspend cap-gains taxes I'm cool with it. But no taxpayer money should go to buying those bonds or in any way bail out failing companies.
WASHINGTON, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate agreed to vote on a $700 billion financial bailout package on Wednesday night that will include an increase in the amount of bank deposits insured by the FDIC to $250,000 from $100,000, a Senate aide said on Tuesday.
Post by: Monkeyleg on September 30, 2008, 07:05:31 PM
Quote
Well, as of 1345CDT, the markets are back up about half of what they lost yesterday.
Ever heard the term "dead cat bounce?"
As for the Dem's, I knew with 100% certainty that they'd load this bill down with more giveaways. They just can't help themselves. Besides, if the bailout succeeded in calming the markets, the credit would go to Bush. Can't have that.
I like some of the Republicans' idea of giving the targeted companies insurance, with the companies paying the premiums. I don't like giving the companies anything at all, but we'd be in for some real hard times if more banks start to fail.
Post by: freakazoid on October 03, 2008, 09:34:32 AM