Running power to an outbuilding ??

[RoadKingLarry]

My wife decided she needed a workspace of her own to get her salvage/junking/flea market crap out of the house before I decided to move onto my boat.
She scored a pretty good deal on a repo 12x28 portable building. It's already pretty well insulated and some wiring has been put in but it was never finished.
We set it up fairly close to my shop building and I plan to run at least 2 circuits to the she-shed off of the breaker panel in my shop.
My thoughts is to run 2 runs of 10/2 from my breakers to the she-shed via buried conduit to a small breaker panel and giver her two 20 amp ckts for lighting and to run a small window AC unit or a small space heater as appropriate . Just stepping it off and guestimating it will be about a 60' run.
Another option would be to run a single 220 line to a breaker box in the she-shed and split that off. I've got 200 amp service to the shop and quite a bit of open space on the breaker panel there.

There won't be any major loads to worry about except the heat and A/C, lights and a few 110 outlets for light duty power tools.

It's been more than 15 years since I've done any serious electrical work so I've got to refresh myself before I get started but I remember seeing similar discussions raised here before and figure this would be a good place to start.

[charby]

If I was doing it, I would run 220 to the shed from a 50amp breaker and put a 50 amp panel in the shed.

That way if you ever need 220 it will be there for you.

[dogmush]

What Charby said.  Depending on my ground and shed entries and exits I might not even bother with conduit.  Some 10/3 or 8/3 direct burial wire. (UF-B? I think? They have some that's rated for it)is a smaller ditch, and no pulling of wire.

[RocketMan]

Check with your AHJ before you start.  While most locales follow the National Electrical Code, some put their own interesting spins on it.

[RoadKingLarry]

Check with your AHJ before you start.  While most locales follow the National Electrical Code, some put their own interesting spins on it.

I don't have to worry about inspections or inspectors with "issues", all I have to worry about is safe and NEC compliance for insurance purposes, and that ain't rocket science :).

I'll probably end up running direct bury cable and 220 after looking at that some more.

 

[Fly320s]

You want 8/3 for direct burial.  See here: http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/8-3-UF-B-Wire-w-Ground.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiA1dWyBRDqiJye6LjkhfIBEiQAw06ITnmgX3a5gLbqok44gWyVnClTEjURKBwsHC0k7yw_800aAvWF8P8HAQ

[MikeB]

If it were me I'd use the 8/3 direct burial mentioned by Fly320s and do a 220 to a new breaker box. You would be slightly under 3% voltage loss at 60' with 10 gauge and 120, but that doesn't account for wiring in the structure or if it is really a bit over 60'. With 8 gauge  and 220 you should have little voltage loss, probably less than 1%.

I did something similar for a friend to light up her riding ring at her horse farm, but longer distances. I did a 220 run about 200' feet out to the riding ring using 4 Gauge direct burial aluminum through a relay in the barn and then split it into two 120 circuits that ran another 200 feet or so for to the three sets of lights on both sides of the ring.

In the spring I'll be doing almost exactly the same thing you are doing as well running electric out to my barn, but that is about 180' for me.

[cornerrow]

If I was doing it, I would run 220 to the shed from a 50amp breaker and put a 50 amp panel in the shed.

That way if you ever need 220 it will be there for you.

That would also be my idea if I had the chance.

[zahc]

Running power to it also changes it from a 'shed' to a proper building. This may have property tax implications if it were ever to be assessed.

[RoadKingLarry]

Running power to it also changes it from a 'shed' to a proper building. This may have property tax implications if it were ever to be assessed.

Not sure how they work it here since it isn't on a permanent foundation but that's a hit I'd accept if it came down to it. Of course it wouldn't be to hard to hide the line coming in to the building. Just run it a little farther and come up through the floor with the feed from the main panel.

[markdido]

220, 221, whatever works! 

[charby]

220, 221, whatever works! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3kxAA2L4Q

[Ben]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3kxAA2L4Q

What movie is that from?

[Fly320s]

Mr. Mom.

[Ben]

Mr. Mom.

Thanks! Never seen it. I'll have to check it out on the Netflix.

[K Frame]

220, 221, whatever works! 

Nice pull!

[K Frame]

What about running an above ground line instead of burying it?

Or, even running two overhead lines from the existing panel, each 20 amp, and branch them into the she shed?

[RoadKingLarry]

Above ground would be a bigger PITA to run in then buried line. The area on my place where it sits is about the only part of the property that isn't full of sand stone boulders and limestone cap rock 10" deep.

[tokugawa]

No matter how you run the wire, a conduit in the ditch is dirt cheap and potentially very useful. Camera cable, hard wired phone, alarm wires, etc. The ditch is the expensive part.

[Firethorn]

You all have it ALL WRONG.  For a proper outbuilding, minimal loss of power, Roadking needs to run three phase 600VAC out there, assuming he doesn't want to do a 3kV DC run.   

 

More seriously, I think I'd do a 10/3 run for it.  You still want the neutral wire for when you're only really using 1 phase.

[RoadKingLarry]

No matter how you run the wire, a conduit in the ditch is dirt cheap and potentially very useful. Camera cable, hard wired phone, alarm wires, etc. The ditch is the expensive part.

I gots a good shovel and a tractor with a ditch digger plow, making a ditch is cheap.  I'm still pretty sure whatever I run will be in conduit,  good, cheap insurance.

[RocketMan]

To heck with digging a ditch and laying expensive copper wire.  Get a Mr. Fusion.

[KD5NRH]

Great uncle Johnny had his detached garage powered by three of these and about a roll and a half of electrical tape:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-51952-Extension-Cord-Indoor-Brown-with-Tamper-Guard-12-125V-13A/44295104

Worked fine for at least 20 years that I know of.  Of course, he did have the sense to make sure the outside connections were heavily taped and firmly stapled under the eaves of the house and garage.

[K Frame]

Great uncle Johnny had his detached garage powered by three of these and about a roll and a half of electrical tape:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-51952-Extension-Cord-Indoor-Brown-with-Tamper-Guard-12-125V-13A/44295104

Worked fine for at least 20 years that I know of.  Of course, he did have the sense to make sure the outside connections were heavily taped and firmly stapled under the eaves of the house and garage.

Ah, right up there where an overload would start a nice roof fire.

I like that!

[Nick1911]

You all have it ALL WRONG.  For a proper outbuilding, minimal loss of power, Roadking needs to run three phase 600VAC out there, assuming he doesn't want to do a 3kV DC run.  

 

More seriously, I think I'd do a 10/3 run for it.  You still want the neutral wire for when you're only really using 1 phase.

This is good advice.

10/3.  Put it on a double 30a, with the neutral going to the neutral bus bar, ground to ground.

That gives you two independent 30A @120v circuits, and up to 30A @240 for bigger stuff (AC/heat)... 7.2kw available power.

You may have to derate if the run is too long to stay under 5% voltage drop at 30A draw.