Game over for Republicans - NOW what?

[AZRedhawk44]

The last 4-8 years of those messages being beaten to death is what lead to a Republican loss. If those really were how the majority of republican voters felt, than Tancredo, Fred Thompson or Brownbeck would have been the Republican candidates.

Care to show me any successes in those three fields that can be lain at the feet of a conservative federal leadership?

Didn't think so.

Progress on any of those fronts would have demonstrated value in the current Conservative crop.

Instead, we got fear-mongering against gays/illegals/abortions but no progress made against any of those boogiemen.

I can drop the gay issue just fine, and let the abortion issue be settled at the state level.

But the illegal alien enforcement plank HAS to stay, and actually get pushed.  That is one of the core failures of the McCain camp.  Good old Senator John "God's Children" Lettuce McCain.

[MillCreek]

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in a couple of years, to see if the various grim predictions being made here come true. 

[roo_ster]

The last 4-8 years of those messages being beaten to death is what lead to a Republican loss. If those really were how the majority of republican voters felt, than Tancredo, Fred Thompson or Brownbeck would have been the Republican candidates.

Two of those three ideas can be easily tied to GWB and the last one loosely.

Beaten to death? 

GWB pushed zero pro-life initiatives and gave only infrequent lip-service.  He was in favor of mass immigration & amnesty.  His position on gay marriage is that taken by every presidential candidate & vice presidential candidate from the Republicans & Democrats since the issue came about, to include BHO.

And my claims for the issues' popularity was not WRT Republicans, but the general population.

Also, you might have noticed that:
1. The conservative vote in the Republican primaries was split several ways.
2. While these issues are popular, they are not the only issues.  Three issues does not a coalition make.  Add things that may not be dear to fundies, but are dear to other coalition partners (fiscal conservatism, strong defense, law & oerder, etc.) and you start to have a coalition.

Until Nixon activated the evangelicals, Republicans had been a minority party for 40 years.  Their addition to the Republican coalition made the Republicans a majority party, able to compete nationally.  Toss them over the side and you can expect another 40 years in the wilderness.

Sorry, your analysis does not stand up to reality.

[GigaBuist]

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in a couple of years, to see if the various grim predictions being made here come true. 

Pre-Bush tax levels and maybe another AWB are the only realistic damages.  Basically the crap we got under the Democrats from 1992-1994 could happen again.

The other fears are, well, more like the kinda thing you'd have seen on DU in 2000, 2002, and 2004.  Not exactly based on sound reasoning.

[Manedwolf]

It will be interesting to revisit this thread in a couple of years, to see if the various grim predictions being made here come true. 

If we still have internet access in most communities. Who knows?

Or if this board is allowed to exist. It could be "hate speech" because it mentions guns.

[Antibubba]

Where they gonna go?  They'll stay home, like they did before they became politicized in reaction to the excesses of the 1960s.  See, politics is not the driving force in their lives.  They can and have lived with minimal interaction in the political sphere.

But if they were to retreat again, their numbers would be replaced by people chased off by them.  Really, I'm not socially conservative, except for the Second Amendment--I'm generally pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, etcetera.  I'm fiscally conservative--not as conservative as Ron Paul, but in general agreement with the Austrian school.  And the GOP has forgotten fiscal conservatism.  They too have lavishly spent money that doesn't belong to them, but this time around, Deficit Spending wasn't beneficial--not that it was last time, but in the 80s it looked like a good idea.

I want a party that will stay out of my wallet, my computer, and my bedroom*.  Surely I can't be the only one.






*And who aren't narcissistic Libertarians.

[Zed]

What's Next?

Hm, lets see.

Likely......

• Economy will continue to crumble.
• AWB II (Likely a total Simi-Auto Ban) will appear, and probably be rammed or snuck trough somehow (Likely With no Sunset or Grandfathering).
• A Ban on .223 .308 .338 .50BMG .45 .40 9mm (Basically anything bigger than a .22lr)  will likely at the very least make several appearances.
• Ammo Tax
• Other New & Higher Taxes
• 2nd Great Depression
• Civil War/Revolution if things crumble far enough and the general population are not as Dumbed down and Mentally Numb as we fear.

[roo_ster]

But if they were to retreat again, their numbers would be replaced by people chased off by them...Surely I can't be the only one.

Not hardly...to both.

You aren't the only one, but you are uncommon.  Compared the 30% of the population that self-identifies as evangelical, your particular issue-set-group is small taters.  Heck, I wished there was an army of anti-bubbas out there that rivaled the size of the evangelicals to help the coalition.

But, it is not the reality.  Push out the fundies and expect to lose more & more often. 

[AZRedhawk44]

McCain was a killjoy to the party and depressed turnout.  It's because he was a centrist.

If the party nominated a good Conservative, and adopted a handful of planks from the Libertarians, and STUCK TO THEM, they'd have the votes they needed.

1.  Small, limited government.
2.  Fiscal responsibility.
3.  States rights, People's rights (honor the 10th Amendment).
4.  For that matter, honor the other 9 while you're at it.

It ain't big, sexy, PatriotActWallStreetBailOutUnilateralWarmongering^TM, but I think we'd get along fine anyways.

[longeyes]

Priority One: militancy.

We don't have to lie down and roll over.  We know what they want to do, but we can put up enough of a fight that they decide it's not worth the aggravation.

I too expect major economic convulsion.

But that may help us: Obama could end up having to resign long before his term's over.

I still believe the cultural and demographic changes in America that have accumulated over four decades almost ensure that conservatives will never have a plurality again.  We will end up having to separate to survive, call it what you wish.

[French G.]

Can I order my "Don't blame me I didn't vote for the Socialist" bumper stickers yet?

[Perd Hapley]

The pro-life position is not a fringe issue, supported only by fundies.  It is a mainstream point of view, supported by legions of people who are not necessarily religious and/or not necessarily conservative.  The same goes for homo marriage, which suffered heavy, HEAVY losses in state-wide votes four years ago.  And I might add that the issue brought many conservatives to the polls, to put Bush over the top. 

I don't think I even need to bother refuting the nutty idea that illegal immigration is only opposed by some radical fringe. 

Actually I blame the right wing fringe, when conservative thinking non Republicans hear the word Republicans they think of the right wing fringe.

Republican party needs to build a foundation in fiscal conservatism and smaller government. Personal freedom and the ability to succeed financially if one puts in the hard work.

The Republican party needs to step away from the right to life, anti gay marriage and hard core anti-immigration. People look at these ideas and some of the people who beat these ideas at the pulpit as lunatics. I actually can't blame them either, there are some kooks I have met.   

No wonder Obama won, when even some of you conservatives think those three common sense positions are "right wing fringe."  Go ahead and blame me, Charby.  I'll blame you.  Deal? 

[stevelyn]

The Republican party needs to step away from the right to life, anti gay marriage and hard core anti-immigration. People look at these ideas and some of the people who beat these ideas at the pulpit as lunatics.

I agree. I think that's what really fuels the hostility that the left exhibits toward republicans or at least republican candidates. I also think these non-issues are what clouds up the areas where everyone seems to agree.

In the end everyone, be they gun owners, gay, pro-choice or whatever just want to be left the hell alone to do their thing and make a living without interference from someone else.

Also, most people AREN'T anti immigration. They are anti-illegal immigration as am I.

I live in a commercial fishing community with an on-shore processor where the vast majority of the employees are foreign nationals. All of them, with an exception of perhaps a dozen over the course of 7 years, are here legally going through the motions and processes that will eventually to US citizenship if they choose to do so.
Why should foreign nationals who are here illegally and haven't went throught the requirement to be here, be rewarded the same as those who've paid their dues and followed US law?

[seeker_two]

If anything, now is the time to let the Republican party in your area know that, if they don't get their act together & flush the neo-con(-artists) out of the party and return to their conservative roots, that another party can and will take their place....

...maybe now the GOP will listen to its base....

[buzz_knox]

Pre-Bush tax levels and maybe another AWB are the only realistic damages.  Basically the crap we got under the Democrats from 1992-1994 could happen again.

The other fears are, well, more like the kinda thing you'd have seen on DU in 2000, 2002, and 2004.  Not exactly based on sound reasoning.

A depression is extremely likely given the social programs Obama wants to push and the tax increases he is guaranteed to put in (even elimination of the Bush tax cuts could do that).

The Middle East will likely pop, either due to Israel going proactive rather than being thrown under the bus or the US pulling out of Iraq and Iran moving in.  So, gas will climb once again.  Since drilling here is now a dead issue, and the utility industry knows it's in his sights, watch for power costs to skyrocket.  This, of course, leads up back to the depression.

The likely scenario is economic turmoil like nothing the last few generations have seen, combined with even more aggressive manuevering to replace the US on the global scene by Russia and China.

[buzz_knox]

In the end everyone, be they gun owners, gay, pro-choice or whatever just want to be left the hell alone to do their thing and make a living without interference from someone else.

If that's the case, then why does the left tell us how we must live, how we must think, and that we must not just tolerate other lifestyles but support them?  Obama is the classic example:  if you want to keep what you earned, you are selfish and the full power of government will be used to take some portion (which you have no control over deciding) of it from you.

There are control freaks in both parties.  They tend to turn the parties.  Right now, the control freaks on the left have total control. 

[Pb]

I believe strongly in right to life.  A pro-abortion republican party would be one I could not accept.  I don't think that is a fringe issue.

[Ron]

If the Republicans jettison the Christian right and allow the left to implement their cultural Marxism without resistance they will be a permanent minority party.

[Manedwolf]

If the Republicans jettison the Christian right and allow the left to implement their cultural Marxism without resistance they will be a permanent minority party.

Why? They didn't need it when Goldwater created modern conservatism. They didn't need it for Reagan to rise to greatness.

The Falwell era was after that, on the downside.

[Ron]

Reagan doesn't get elected and re-elected without the Christian right.

Newt and the gang do not take over congress without the Christian right.

[Manedwolf]

I think the problem was more when the visible symbol of the Christian right became the opportunistic televangelists with their giant shiny holy Rolexes and pleas for money.

[wmenorr67]

What's Next?

Hm, lets see.

Likely......

• Economy will continue to crumble.
• AWB II (Likely a total Simi-Auto Ban) will appear, and probably be rammed or snuck trough somehow (Likely With no Sunset or Grandfathering).
• A Ban on .223 .308 .338 .50BMG .45 .40 9mm (Basically anything bigger than a .22lr)  will likely at the very least make several appearances.
• Ammo Tax
• Other New & Higher Taxes
• 2nd Great Depression
• Civil War/Revolution if things crumble far enough and the general population are not as Dumbed down and Mentally Numb as we fear.

No, because they will only have about 2 years to take care of it.  Because once they screw everything up the 2010 elections will make the 96 Republican storm look like a gale.

[Ron]

I think the problem was more when the visible symbol of the Christian right became the opportunistic televangelists with their giant shiny holy Rolexes and pleas for money.

The whole stereotype of the religious right that has been presented (based on some reality like all stereotypes) and the ham handed pandering the Republicans have done is a big part of the problem.

I don't need (and I suspect most evangelicals would agree) an offensive against gay marriage, constitutional amendments enshrining Christian doctrine or non religious/marginally religious politicians pretending to be devout.

I just want assurances they will not actively undermine the culture, err on the side of protecting life and stand as a firewall against those who would enshrine materialism/cultural Marxism as the state religion.  

[Nitrogen]

If the Republicans jettison the Christian right and allow the left to implement their cultural Marxism without resistance they will be a permanent minority party.

Someone explain this to me:
Why are so many people that on one hand say, "Get the government out of my life" also people that say "we gotta ban gay marriage and abortion!"

The solution seems simple to me.  Give the liberals the abortion and gay rights issues, and let them have it in their states; repealing all federal laws on abortion and gays.  In return, they repeal all federal gun laws, allowing the individual states to make their own laws.

I don't see anything in the constitution that gives the federal government power over homos, guns, or abortion.

[makattak]

Someone explain this to me:
Why are so many people that on one hand say, "Get the government out of my life" also people that say "we gotta ban gay marriage and abortion!"

The solution seems simple to me.  Give the liberals the abortion and gay rights issues, and let them have it in their states; repealing all federal laws on abortion and gays.  In return, they repeal all federal gun laws, allowing the individual states to make their own laws.

I don't see anything in the constitution that gives the federal government power over homos, guns, or abortion.

And as a Christian opposed to Abortion and Gay Marriage, I quite agree. (Except for guns, the constitution clearly gives the federal government power to PREVENT gun regulations: "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." No mention of Congress like in the First...)

These (Abortion and Homosexual Marriage) are morally repugnant. However, there is no federal law against murder (well... shouldn't be), nor should there be a federal law against abortion. These are state issues where our focus should be. I am a firm federalist.

However, it is the purpose of the federal government to ensure that the foolishness of other states does not adversely affect mine. (Defense of Marriage Law- other states need not recognize gay marriages from more liberal states.)

One thing I find interesting- so many people here are firmly defending liberty and property, as well they should.

Shouldn't LIFE be defended as well? (Life, Libery and Property...)

(Edit: also, somewhere in the recent flurry of postings, I broke 100. Huzzah. )