Author Topic: I fear for our country  (Read 17935 times)

neviander

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I fear for our country
« on: November 04, 2008, 11:53:25 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know every issue inside and out, but I've been listening to every voice I could hear for the past year and a half and the potential for damage to this country in the next 4 is seemingly unprecedented. 

But as I see the republican presidential candidate lose, and a lot of long standing republican senators and representatives losing, I think of how weak kneed, noodle spined and cowardly the republican party has become.

The republican party is supposedly the "right wing" party, that stands for Christian values.  In what way, in the last 8 years or so, has the republican party, as a majority, stood up for Christian values?  Not only are the libs completely disillusioned by Barack and all of his cronies, but the republican base itself has a lot to complain about.  Conservative standards have been compromised away by greedy, noob/coward republicans for long enough and I believe what has happened tonight is a big fat example of that.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot, I would thou wert cold or hot.  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."  Rev 3:15-16
I know everyone here isn't a Christian, but doesn't the concept apply?

Should this administration bring terrible things, may we see the error of our ways and rebuild, stronger, and better.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 09:46:38 AM by neviander »
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Nitrogen

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 12:20:38 AM »
I remember hearing liberals say the same stuff 4 and 8 years ago.

Guess what.  We're still here.
We'll still be here in 8 years.
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Jeff B.

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2008, 12:25:24 AM »
46,843,332 voters or 47.47% of the voting public did not sign on for this trip.  Despite the soothing speeches promising bipartisanship, within six months, the long knives will be out, and that 47.47 % will have grown to well over 50%.

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neviander

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2008, 12:34:37 AM »
6 months sure, but what about the remaining 42 months.
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taurusowner

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 12:37:43 AM »
I can't really say what I feel right now as it would violate a number of forum regulations as well as possibly open myself up for some sort of investigation.

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 12:39:49 AM »
I can't really say what I feel right now as it would violate a number of forum regulations as well as possibly open myself up for some sort of investigation.

The same Probably goes for a great many.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 12:42:41 AM »
Quote
In what way, in the last 8 years or so, has the republican party, as a majority, stood up for Christian values?

The Republican party hasn't stood for anything at all.
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GigaBuist

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 12:50:38 AM »
The Republican party hasn't stood for anything at all.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

Although I would like to amend that:  "The Republican party hasn't stood for anything conservative at all."

We're seeing something you might call "blowback" based on previous actions of the Republican controlled government.  It ticked a lot of people off, they remembered that, and they're taking their frustration out on the Republicans in the polls tonight.

neviander

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 12:54:09 AM »
I agree, I just don't like the shoot-yourself-in-the-foot retort that the conservative base has chosen.  Krikey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but if it's broke, FIX IT, don't break it more!
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longeyes

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 01:49:49 AM »
"Thanks, we needed that."

Maybe that's what we should be saying.

McCain would have bought us some time but he would also have lulled us into more complacency while continuing what is essentially a nation-destroying agenda.

I suggest we take a constructive view of this and realize we need to make a tough, honest appraisal of how we need to re-build a viable party (even if it's not the GOP).
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Standing Wolf

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2008, 08:06:34 AM »
Quote
I suggest we take a constructive view of this and realize we need to make a tough, honest appraisal of how we need to re-build a viable party (even if it's not the GOP).

I concur with you, and would like to give your idea a nudge forward: to the extent we attempt to breathe new life into the Republican party, we doom our efforts to certain failure.

We need a conservative party. We need to abandon all thought of trying to be the larger of two parties. The Republican party has failed by standing for precisely and exactly nothing.

Sooner or later, it stops making sense to pour money into a car with rust-eaten fenders, rust holes in the floor, cracked glass here and there, an engine that burns a quart of oil every 30 miles, a muffler full of holes, a transmission that works sometimes, seats with split upholstery, and four bald tires and no spare in the trunk. Yes, I know some people continue to pour money into such vehicles, but a.) they're more expensive to keep on the road than new cars, and b.) they still don't even work as basic transportation.

It's time to junk it. It's scrap iron. Just because guys who work in junk yards can salvage some of the parts doesn't mean it's of any value as a car.

Off the top of my head, I'd guess a third of American voters would embrace or largely embrace the principles of a conservative party, but only on two conditions: 1.) it would actually have to have principles, and 2.) it would actually have to live those principles.

Remember the famous "Contract with America?" It turned out to be high-sounding empty rhetoric. We, the people saw it and heard about it, liked it a lot, and embraced it with open arms. It was an amazing success; unfortunately, it only appeared to be real.

To the extent a conservative party attempts to be a large and/or dominant party, it will necessarily fail. Why? Because we have a more than century-old tradition of looterism in the United States. At least a sizeable plurality of Americans have let themselves be turned into wards of the state. Attempting to appeal to those people is moral, intellectual, and political suicide.

A genuine, successful conservative party could, should, and would be the tail that wags the dog: the tail the leftist extremists and semi-independent wards of the state have no choice but to work with. We don't have a multiple-party tradition in the United States. We have an ostensible two-party arrangement under which both parties vie for the purported "center" of the political spectrum while actually advancing leftist so-called "ideas." McCain is no less a looter than Obama: merely a looter with a slightly longer time table. Bush was no less a looter than Gore: merely a looter with a slightly longer time table.

A true conservative party would take a public stand against looterism and actually uphold its stand—live its principles—instead of trying to dress up yet another variety of looterism in slick-sounding new rhetoric. I can be done. It could be done. It should be done.

All that saidâ„¢, I've to confess I doubt it will be done: far, far, far too many of us continue to think in terms of two large parties, and anyway, very few of us are actually willing to live by principles.
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buzz_knox

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2008, 08:20:40 AM »
All that saidâ„¢, I've to confess I doubt it will be done: far, far, far too many of us continue to think in terms of two large parties, and anyway, very few of us are actually willing to live by principles.

Even if it could be done, it would take so long to accomplish that there would be nothing left to save of the nation.  It's either convert the Republicans using this defeat, try to have a new party convert the wasteland the US will become while said party grows, or have a revolution.  Personally, I'm leaning towards the first option.

Leatherneck

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 08:39:14 AM »
I agree with Buzz; the only practical solution is for us of a conservative bent to rally behind a conservative leader (Palin?) and bring the GOP back to the unabashedly conservative principles we believe in.

The one thing I fear is the tendency for us to allow ourselves to be branded "Christian Conservatives." Look, I have absolutely nothing against churchgoing Christian people, and I share many values with them. But I do not like wearing Christianity on my sleeve as a badge of honor. Religion should be free and private. It should not be the badge of politicians.

TC
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Manedwolf

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 08:54:56 AM »
The one thing I fear is the tendency for us to allow ourselves to be branded "Christian Conservatives." Look, I have absolutely nothing against churchgoing Christian people, and I share many values with them. But I do not like wearing Christianity on my sleeve as a badge of honor. Religion should be free and private. It should not be the badge of politicians.

Goldwater was quite angry that the Republican party had so entwined itself with that.

makattak

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2008, 09:06:08 AM »
I agree with Buzz; the only practical solution is for us of a conservative bent to rally behind a conservative leader (Palin?) and bring the GOP back to the unabashedly conservative principles we believe in.

The one thing I fear is the tendency for us to allow ourselves to be branded "Christian Conservatives." Look, I have absolutely nothing against churchgoing Christian people, and I share many values with them. But I do not like wearing Christianity on my sleeve as a badge of honor. Religion should be free and private. It should not be the badge of politicians.

TC

But I do not like wearing Christianity on my sleeve as a badge of honor. Religion should be free and private. It should not be the badge of politicians.

Wow.

Alright, it's been said enough that I can't abide it any longer. Religion should be FREE. I guess I missed the part in the Constitution which said:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof so long as the people keep it to themselves"

I've got a surprise for you. There are a LOT of Christians in this country.

Not only that, there are a lot of Christians who believe that the government that governs best, governs least.

We also believe there is a fight not only for our country, but also for our society (they are two seperate entities).

If you want to throw us under the bus, that is your choice. Keep in mind though, attacking your allies is a bad idea.

I came here to discuss how to get back to conservative principles. Instead, I get- It's all theese FUNDIES FAULT!!!!

Why not blame people who failed to be true to conservative principles: small government and low taxes.

Somehow, I don't think people voted in the Democrats because they were trumpeting how they would give free abortions to all and gay marriage in every house!

The Democrats said they would be FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE and CUT TAXES.

DOESN'T THIS MAKE YOU ANGRY at the Republicans for giving up that issue?

The Democrats knew they couldnt' win on social issues. Yet, you want to give up those issues just like the Republicans gave up economic issues.

Isn't this beyond foolishness?
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neviander

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2008, 09:44:54 AM »
Now that I've slept on it, scrapping the entire system and starting over does sound like a good idea; it's still not going to be fun.  Everybody wants to get rid of the cancer, but no one wants to endure the chemo treatment.
"be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

wmenorr67

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2008, 10:11:15 AM »
Just remember if something were to happen to Obama who becomes President.  And I think he would be worse.  And if something were to happen to both of them before a new VP could be appointed think of who is second in line.  And I know we don't want her as President.
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qdemn7

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2008, 10:45:53 AM »
The republican party is supposedly the "right wing" party, that stands for Christian values.  In what way, in the last 8 years or so, has the republican party, as a majority, stood up for Christian values?  Not only are the libs completely disillusioned by Barack and all of his cronies, but the republican base itself has a lot to complain about.  Conservative standards have been compromised away by greedy, noob/coward republicans for long enough and I believe what has happened tonight is a big fat example of that.

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot, I would thou wert cold or hot.  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."  Rev 3:15-16
I know everyone here isn't a Christian, but doesn't the concept apply?

Should this administration bring terrible things, may we see the error of our ways and rebuild, stronger, and better.

As a 51 yr. old white male, IMLHO, the single biggest mistake the Republican Party has ever made has to become seen as the party of "Conservative Christians" and "Christian Values". This has driven away people who are fiscal Conservatives but not religious Conservatives. People who are in fact offended and driven away by the Evangelical fervor of people who want to convert the US into a Theocracy.  Ayn Rand was a profound proponent of Freedom and was an Atheist. So religious faith and desire for Freedom do not have to go together.

I see absolutely no difference between a Leftist trying to foist his Socialist Morality down my throat, and Rightist trying to do the same with their Old Testament interpretation (sin, sin, sin, sin and more sin) of the Bible. Both are trying to foist their narrow morality onto me and restrict my freedoms.

The last 30 years have been a marriage of strict convenience between the Fiscal Conservatives and Religious Conservatives. That marriage is now coming to an end and divorce is in high order.

Nitrogen

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 10:51:34 AM »
I agree with Buzz; the only practical solution is for us of a conservative bent to rally behind a conservative leader (Palin?) and bring the GOP back to the unabashedly conservative principles we believe in.

The one thing I fear is the tendency for us to allow ourselves to be branded "Christian Conservatives." Look, I have absolutely nothing against churchgoing Christian people, and I share many values with them. But I do not like wearing Christianity on my sleeve as a badge of honor. Religion should be free and private. It should not be the badge of politicians.

TC

Palin is an ignorant fool.  Show me someone like Goldwater and I'll get behind him or her.

PS: Stop sounding like the Liberals did in 2004.  They predicted the end of all civil liberties then, just like many are predicting the end of them now.  Liberals learned from their losses, and so will conservatives.
God, I hope so at least.  Obama scares me a bit.  The thought of someone like Pelosi, Reid, or other of the upper tier democrats in congress and the house scare me a lot more, empowered.

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taurusowner

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2008, 11:01:48 AM »
I'm keeping my AR-15 until I die.  If I end up dying at 86, or 26 for whatever reason.  And I'm sure you can imagine what that reason might be.  It's mine and it will stay mine until I'm cold.

roo_ster

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2008, 11:10:27 AM »
Palin is an ignorant fool.  Show me someone like Goldwater and I'll get behind him or her.

I revere the memory of AuH2O.

But, he was a loser.  BIG, FREAKING, CAPITAL "L" LOSER.  Big enough a loser with enough of a drag on other Reps to help LBJ usher in whole new swaths of socialism into America.

It took a crafty Nixon to activate those stinky fundies to muck together a coalition to wrest the POTUS from the Dems.

Reagan, though not a great church-goer himself, understood that and used his gifts to add even more to the coalition.  He managed to blow the Dems outta the water twice and even get his RINO VP GHWB elected.

Regards,

roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2008, 11:42:16 AM »
Quote
But, he was a loser.  BIG, FREAKING, CAPITAL "L" LOSER.  Big enough a loser with enough of a drag on other Reps to help LBJ usher in whole new swaths of socialism into America.

Don't forget he was betrayed and backstabbed by a lot of the Republican powerbrokers.
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charby

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2008, 11:44:53 AM »
But, he was a loser.  BIG, FREAKING, CAPITAL "L" LOSER.  Big enough a loser with enough of a drag on other Reps to help LBJ usher in whole new swaths of socialism into America.

He lost because the VP of an "popular" assasinated president was seeking reelection. Votes of sympathy.


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K Frame

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2008, 11:50:03 AM »
I'm keeping my AR-15 until I die.  If I end up dying at 86, or 26 for whatever reason.  And I'm sure you can imagine what that reason might be.  It's mine and it will stay mine until I'm cold.


Chill out, Taurus.

I'm sure you'll survive the gun confiscation shock troops from the United Nations.  :rolleyes:
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neviander

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Re: I fear for our country
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2008, 02:06:36 PM »
Quote
I see absolutely no difference between a Leftist trying to foist his Socialist Morality down my throat, and Rightist trying to do the same with their Old Testament interpretation (sin, sin, sin, sin and more sin) of the Bible. Both are trying to foist their narrow morality onto me and restrict my freedoms.
Any Christian that actually reads their bible does not try to force their point of view on anyone.  Disasters such as prohibition was mob rule, not Christianity.
"be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."