Author Topic: Obama's first test?  (Read 4704 times)

Jamisjockey

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Obama's first test?
« on: November 05, 2008, 05:57:50 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081105/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_medvedev
Quote
Russia to deploy short-range missiles near Poland       MOSCOW – Russia will deploy short-range missiles near Poland to counter U.S. military plans in Eastern Europe, President Dmitry Medvedev warned Wednesday, setting a combative tone that clashed with global goodwill over Barack Obama's election.

In his first state of the nation speech, Medvedev blamed Washington for the war in Georgia and the world financial crisis and suggested it was up to Washington to mend badly damaged ties.

Medvedev also proposed increasing the Russian presidential term to six years from four — a change that could deepen Western concern over democracy in Russia and play into the hands of his mentor, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, who has not ruled out a return to the Kremlin
continued in the link

That didn't take long for someone to want to test Barry.  Just surprised it was Russia and not a Middle Eastern country.  Cold war Redux?
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taurusowner

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 06:49:46 PM »
They know a weakling and a pushover when they see one.  This is just the beginning.

Manedwolf

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2008, 07:19:26 PM »
Russian drinking contest. They just took a belt of vodka, pushed a glass and bottle across the table, and are staring intently at Obama.

nico

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2008, 07:32:01 PM »
that's interesting.  I saw a story on BBC America this afternoon saying that the Russians were lukewarm about obama winning, but relieved that he won, isn't Bush, and doesn't have a "cold war mentality."  I guess they meant he's a pushover. . .

De Selby

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 07:58:16 PM »
Yeah, I guess invading Georgia and then stating that they were possibly going to attack Poland wasn't testing Bush-that was all about Obama.

Reality check: the Russians already tested America by destroying one of its allies, and proved that America can't do much in response.  This is hardly a "let's show Obama" moment.
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waterhill

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2008, 08:00:50 PM »
Maned, you nailed it...

F'in scary...

charby

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 08:10:03 PM »
that's interesting.  I saw a story on BBC America this afternoon saying that the Russians were lukewarm about obama winning, but relieved that he won, isn't Bush, and doesn't have a "cold war mentality."  I guess they meant he's a pushover. . .

Mendvedev also failed to mention Obama in his state of the nation address today also.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article5090077.ece

Quote
The President failed to congratulate Mr Obama or even to mention him by name during the 85-minute address televised live across Russia.
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Jamisjockey

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Meh
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 08:16:10 PM »
Yeah, I guess invading Georgia and then stating that they were possibly going to attack Poland wasn't testing Bush-that was all about Obama.

Reality check: the Russians already tested America by destroying one of its allies, and proved that America can't do much in response.  This is hardly a "let's show Obama" moment.


Moving missles to the Polish border the day after the election is a coincidince.  You're right, how foolish of me.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 08:18:25 PM »
Quote
Mendvedev also failed to mention Obama in his state of the nation address today also.

So? I've been doing my best not to think about that individual all day.
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agricola

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 08:40:27 PM »
Reality check: the Russians already tested America by destroying one of its allies, and proved that America can't do much in response.  This is hardly a "let's show Obama" moment.

Perhaps, though I would put money on them testing him once he is in office - lets say some kind of "independent revolt" in the Crimea, for instance.  Something thats obviously them doing it (for domestic reasons) but with enough deniability that the cretins in the EU, and possibly Obama, can weedle their way out of actually doing anything, and blame Bush for overextending NATO.   

As for this, I dont think they will go after Poland at this stage - if for no other reason than it would shake Germany and France out of their complacency.

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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2008, 10:10:56 PM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2008, 10:14:29 PM »
last night at the white house rally:



"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

De Selby

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 10:39:39 PM »
Perhaps, though I would put money on them testing him once he is in office - lets say some kind of "independent revolt" in the Crimea, for instance.  Something thats obviously them doing it (for domestic reasons) but with enough deniability that the cretins in the EU, and possibly Obama, can weedle their way out of actually doing anything, and blame Bush for overextending NATO.   

As for this, I dont think they will go after Poland at this stage - if for no other reason than it would shake Germany and France out of their complacency.



You are absolutely right in foreseeing this kind of thing, and in calling it testing.

What I'm pointing out is the silliness of tying this to an Obama election-Russia does not care who is elected, and moving missiles is much less aggressive than the full on invasion they already launched in the past.  Obama's foreign policy campaign record and perceived (on the American right, mainly) wimpiness is not the reason that Russia is moving its missiles around-this is part of a longer program that already tested GW Bush.
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grey54956

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 10:56:58 PM »
The Russians are not going to go after Poland.

1.)  That would start an honest to goodness WWIII.

2.)  The Poles are not to be trifled with...  They were generally feared and respected for hundreds of years, and would probably go bat $#@t crazy on the Russians if they came a knockin'.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 01:25:39 AM »
Quote
The Poles are not to be trifled with...  They were generally feared and respected for hundreds of years, and would probably go bat $#@t crazy on the Russians if they came a knockin'.

Yeah, they're some real tough cookies, those Poles.  They did exceptionally well when standing up to 1938-vintage German Blitzkrieg tactics...
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2008, 01:54:32 AM »
Yeah, they're some real tough cookies, those Poles.  They did exceptionally well when standing up to 1938-vintage German Blitzkrieg tactics...

One would think that they have their own version of "Never Again" when it comes to this.
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De Selby

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2008, 04:53:59 AM »
Yeah, they're some real tough cookies, those Poles.  They did exceptionally well when standing up to 1938-vintage German Blitzkrieg tactics...

With advances in defense technology, they might even hold out against an assault for a full hour this time.  Frightening stuff.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2008, 05:10:49 AM »
Yes, they lost against multiple invading, technologically-superior enemy armies.

Now go look what they did when they last fought the Russians alone.
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SADShooter

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2008, 09:51:49 AM »
I'm sure the Polish troops who've served admirably with us in southwest Asia would appreciate the 1938 comparison.
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Joe Demko

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2008, 11:50:12 AM »
Yeah, they're some real tough cookies, those Poles.  They did exceptionally well when standing up to 1938-vintage German Blitzkrieg tactics...

How well do you suppose the 1938 US Army would have fared in exactly their place?
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charby

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Re: Obama's first test?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2008, 01:33:43 PM »
Here is another test and this isn't coincidental either.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L1162196.htm

Quote
ANALYSIS-Saudi king seeks sense of Obama policy on U.S. trip 06 Nov 2008 10:55:02 GMT
Source: Reuters
 By Andrew Hammond

RIYADH, Nov 6 (Reuters) - Wary about the direction of U.S. policy in the region, Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah will have a chance to put out feelers to president-elect Barack Obama during a visit to the United States next week.

The Saudi monarch and his delegation will attend a two-day United Nations session in New York on an "interfaith dialogue" he launched this year and then attend a summit of world leaders in Washington on the global financial crisis.

"They will do their best to sound out what the president is going to be like, but these sorts of things always take time," said Saudi political analyst Khaled al-Dakhil.

Obama's election pitch featured a promise to end U.S. dependence on Middle East oil within 10 years, open dialogue with Iran and a draw down of the U.S. presence in Iraq.

Those all have the potential to deeply trouble the Saudi leadership, which has relied on an oil-for-security U.S. alliance since the 1940s that has survived regional upheavals and kept the Saud family in power against often tall odds.

A message of congratulation from the 85-year-old king to Obama, 47, betrayed what was on the Saudi leadership's mind.

"On this occasion we praise the strength of the firm historical bonds between the two friendly nations and hope for the peace and justice and strengthening of security and stability in the Middle East region," it said.

Saudi media showed few signs of a preference during the long presidential campaign.

Diplomats in Riyadh say the Saudi rulers felt comfortable with outgoing president George W. Bush, based on a history of close personal ties with the Bush family and the Republicans.

But Obama's slogan of "change we can believe in" could lead to a host of foreign policy shifts troubling to conservative rulers suspicious of anything suggesting breaks with the past.

"The portrayal of Obama as a candidate of change has disturbed them," said Kent F. Moors, an energy policy expert at Duquesne University in the United States.

POST 9/11 STRATEGY

The absolute monarchy has consolidated its domestic and international position after the debacle of the Sept. 11 attacks of 2001, where 15 of the 19 al Qaeda militants were Saudis.

The ruling elite in Saudi Arabia's traditionally closed Islamic society has expanded its political, economic and military ties with the outside world towards Asia and Russia, diluting its historic dependence on Washington's good will.

"The potential for friction related to energy policy is probably overblown," said Greg Priddy of Eurasia Group. "The long-term trend is going to be a gradual decline in U.S. oil consumption and more crude from Saudi Arabia going to Asia."

Priddy said U.S. and Saudi interests coalesced over the hit Iran is taking from low oil prices. Riyadh shares U.S. concerns that Iran's nuclear energy programme is a cover for plans to develop nuclear weapons, a charge Tehran denies.

The rise of Shi'ite power Iran following the U.S. invasion of Iraq, toppling a Sunni Arab regime that acted as a bulwark against any Iranian expansionism, has formed the main concern of Saudi foreign policy since 2003.

"I think he (Obama) will have a tough time with Iran. I'm one of those who are convinced Iran is after a nuclear weapon," said Dakhil. "This will give a chance for the Saudis to back the new president and to earn his standing and cooperation."

Saudi rulers, who see themselves as the bastion of majority Sunni Islam, fear Washington could cut its own deal with Tehran that would make Shi'ism a key part of a new regional political order at peace with America.

Riyadh fears a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq could consolidate Shi'ite power there at the expense of Sunni Arabs who Saudi leaders want to have a bigger share of the political cake.

Another unwelcome change would be renewed U.S. interest in spreading democracy. The government has instituted some social reforms to improve the country's image and dilute the power of clerics, but Islamists could gain even more power in a vote.

A U.S. diplomat made a pointed reference to democracy and "open society" in a speech before Saudi journalists at an embassy election night party in Riyadh this week.

Dakhil said Saudis could not help but be struck by the vibrant popular participation in U.S. politics. "They have already made the connection and the comparison," he said.
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