Author Topic: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner  (Read 7429 times)

MechAg94

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http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/03/09/man-killed-by-pit-bull-while-trying-to-help-dogs-ill-owner/
This is the meat of the article. 
Quote
Lt. Phil Redford says police believe the dog’s owner suffered a heart attack. The other man was attacked by the dog as he tried to resuscitate the owner.
A police department news release says both people were pronounced dead at a local hospital. Their names haven’t been released.

Maybe the downside of an overly protective dog.  Sad outcome.  I sort of wonder if the dog gave any indication of hostility before it attacked or if it showed up after CPR was in progress. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Ben

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2015, 04:21:58 PM »
That's really sad. It makes perfect sense that the dog would see performing CPR as an "attack" against its owner. An otherwise reasonable reaction by the dog that led to two deaths. If I walked into that situation, harsh as it sounds, I think I would stand off and just call 911 unless I had help or some way of distracting or removing the dog.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2015, 04:28:53 PM »
It's a scenario I have thought about at work. Over the years it's gotten to the point that while I don't own them, most the Anatolians are positive that they own me, and they protect what is theirs.
And I have been in a few situations where things got ugly because of this. It's really fun being in the middle of the dog fight because one dog decided the other dog was being to pushy with THEIR person. :o

Protective dogs can be a double edged sword at times.
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MechAg94

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2015, 05:11:21 PM »
Another question:  Are pitt bulls in the news so much because they are so common or because they cause problems? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

vaskidmark

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2015, 05:28:36 PM »
Another question:  Are pitt bulls in the news so much because they are so common or because they cause problems? 

IMHO it's because they are so scary.  Made that way by gangbangers who abuse individual animals as well as hold dog fights.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-study-which-dogs-bite-gershman-1991.php

The study is of dog bite fatalities, not all dog bites.

Quote
Dogs predominantly of chihuahua, golden retriever, labrador retriever, poodle, Scottish terrier, and Shetland sheepdog breeds were more common among nonbiting than among the biting dogs. None of the cases and only one control dog was a pit bull terrier.

Dogs predominantly of German shepherd, chow chow, collie and akita breeds were substantially more frequent among biting than nonbiting dogs. The total numbers of dogs mainly collie (n=9) and akita (n=5) breeds were small compared to the total numbers of German shepherd (n=47) and chow chows (n=40).

There are other studies that put golden retrievers and poodles/labradoodles among the fatal biters.  The small numbers of such as Dogo Argentinio and related breeds being kept as pets probably accounts for them not making the list.

Chihuahuas (the origin of the term "ankle biter") being marked as non-biters in spite of being the probable origin of the term "ankle biter".  Also missing from the roster of biters (although not fatally) are any of the herding dogs.

stay safe.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2015, 05:39:02 PM »
If a dog kills someone, it retroactively becomes a "pitbull".   ;/  (it's a news thing)



I don't like Cocker Spaniels and would never have one around children. 
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Balog

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2015, 06:40:49 PM »
Another question:  Are pitt bulls in the news so much because they are so common or because they cause problems?  

I've seen dog attacks initially reported as "pit bulls" where the actual dog was everything from a labrador retriever to a german shepherd. Idiot journos use "pit bull" like they use "assault weapon" because the glock has a "hi capacity murder clip!!!!"

eta:also, unless they do genetic testing then there's no real way of telling what actual breeds the dog is.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 06:45:17 PM by Balog »
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2015, 07:00:15 PM »
In addition to the fact that journalist identify the breed in the same method that they identify a Glock and idiot gang bangers like to make them mean, pit bulls can be scary

They are a fighting breed. Physically, they are capable of doing a lot of damage and mentally, they can be capable of doing a lot of damage.
It's one of those breeds where, yes, the owner and training has a lot to do with how they behave, HOWEVER (big however) the breed itself requires a level of training and socialization that is more than others. Many Staffordshire Bull Terrier lines have managed to breed out a lot of the sharper temperament, and there are plenty of shelter pits who wouldn't hurt a fly. The rest, well, I like them, but I don't generally trust them. Any mishandling can result in a truly dangerous dog, and due to the popularity of the breed, their are a lot of mishandled pits.

addition: Before the pit lovers around here try to jump me for what I've said. Yes, they are not the only breed that requires extra care. In fact, they are far from the only breed that requires extra care. Nor are they the only breed that gets in trouble for this kind of stuff.
IMHO, it is an owners responsibility to be fully aware of what their dog is capable of, without blinders or "oh, but that's my sweet baby."
Pearl (my profile pic) is my sweet Pearlie girl and my baby. She also can be very dog aggressive and sharp with strangers. I love her dearly, but I also don't let her "romp" in dog parks.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 07:23:44 PM by bluestarlizzard »
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2015, 07:02:05 PM »
I've seen dog attacks initially reported as "pit bulls" where the actual dog was everything from a labrador retriever to a german shepherd. Idiot journos use "pit bull" like they use "assault weapon" because the glock has a "hi capacity murder clip!!!!"

eta:also, unless they do genetic testing then there's no real way of telling what actual breeds the dog is.

Um, no, plenty of people can spot the difference between a pit and a lab.
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Balog

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 07:05:46 PM »
Um, no, plenty of people can spot the difference between a pit and a lab.


Plenty of "zomg pit bulls!!!!" have been genetically tested and id'ed as mutts with no pit ancestry whatsoever.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2015, 07:22:52 PM »
Plenty of "zomg pit bulls!!!!" have been genetically tested and id'ed as mutts with no pit ancestry whatsoever.

and plenty of "black labs" have come to where I work that were not labs, at all.

I've also come to the conclusion that most people are *expletive deleted*it at identifying dog breeds and characteristics.
"Okay, um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm angry, and I'm armed, so if you two have something that you need to work out --" -Malcolm Reynolds

vaskidmark

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2015, 08:56:51 PM »

I've also come to the conclusion that most people are *expletive deleted*it at identifying dog breeds and characteristics.

Oh, please!  As a trained observer I can differentiate between a pit bull and a gecko with 90% certainty most days, if the sun is not too bright or it is not too cloudy.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Calumus

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 01:36:13 AM »
One big problem with people humanizing dogs, is that they're surprised when a dog actually acts like one. I feel bad for the guy; but how was the dog supposed to know he was trying to help the owner? The dog was probably already distressed from seeing his owner drop, then a stranger appears (to the dog) to attack him. Pretty much any breed is going to have some defensive drive, this one just had the capability to do some damage. I'm not "making excuses" for the dog, but if I ever have to perform cpr or the heimlich in the future, I'll make sure to secure any dogs first.
 
As far as Pitbulls in the news goes, they're the EBR of the dog world. They make good headlines, so when there's a Pitbull bite it gets reported. When you look at the number of bites annually, you have to consider the number of the dogs that there actually are. About 3 million dogs are put down in shelters every year. A low estimate is that about a third of them are Pit/ Pit mixes, or just wrongly identified. So if around a million Pits are put down in shelters every year, what percentage of Pits end up in shelters? If its 10% that means there are 10 million Pits in the U.S.  I have a hard time believing that 10% of any breed ends up in a shelter. Dogsbite.org is a hardcore anti bull breed site. Think million mom march of the dog world.
   
  Unfortunately, Bull breeds are the current status symbol dog. In the 70's it was the GSD, then it was the Doberman, then the Rottweiller. In the early 90's Bullys got the nod, and they've had it longer then any other breed. Recently there's been some movement to athletic breed mastiffs, the Cane Corso, Presa Canario, etc. Same type of look; but even bigger and flashier. The only reason they haven't taken the crown faster is the higher price of admission. That's changing as more are making their way into petstores and turned into puppy mills. People unfortunately don't put any thought into what the breed of dog they think is cool looking, or cute, was actually created to do. Sally gets upset when her Jack Russell tears a cat to shreds, Bob gets annoyed when his Border Collie keeps nipping at his kids while herding them somewhere. We spent a couple hundred years hardwiring dogs to do specific things, if there's not a concentrated effort to breed those instincts out, they stay.

  I read recently (I can't remember where; but I'll try to find it) that it takes 7 generations of targeted breeding to lock in, or remove a drive in a dog. With actual breeds that have entered the show world, that effort has been going on for a while. I have a show line Staffordshire Bull Terrier. No one in his pedigree from the late 30's on was used as anything other then a show dog/pet; but before that it was 100+ generations of gladiators. He's always happy, loves everyone he sees to an almost embarrassing degree, and is eager to meet every dog he sees. He's been gone after by Pugs, Shih Tzus, Corgis, Labs, a seeing eye dog, and last week a Basset Hound. Doesn't even occur to him that maybe he should do something about it. However, he is big dog reactive. He had a 140# Bull Mastiff/Ridgeback go after him, and it was the only time he's responded. I got into this breed knowing full well the possible downsides to it. I socialized the crap out of him when he was young; but knew that at some point after he hit adulthood I'd find out what his adult tolerance of other dogs was. My Corso was easy, he got into his first scrap when he was 9 months old. After that I knew he was reactive. He'd never start anything; but wouldn't hesitate a second if teeth were bared. I took care of it by just being aware of other dogs' body language and avoiding them if they were likely to start trouble.  With my Stafford it was tougher, he made it to almost 3 before I got to know for sure if he'd react to anything. It was actually a relief finally finding out what I had to watch for. That's the thing with any breed, knowing what to watch for. A juvenile Aussie could sever a toddler's achilles like nothing just trying to herd, pretty much any terrier can be nippy, Labs don't socialize and train themselves. I've had more issues with Labs then any other breed.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 11:17:47 AM by Calumus »

Regolith

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2015, 03:27:39 AM »
<snip>

Paragraphs, dude, paragraphs.  :police:
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BryanP

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2015, 09:07:59 AM »
and plenty of "black labs" have come to where I work that were not labs, at all.

I've also come to the conclusion that most people are *expletive deleted*it at identifying dog breeds and characteristics.

True enough.  I used to have a dog who was the result of a midnight tryst at a breeder. He was 1/2 Springer Spaniel, 1/2 Rottweiler.  He looked like a stocky black lab with jowls.
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MechAg94

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2015, 09:15:36 AM »
Calumus comments are why I was curious if the dog was giving any warning signs when the good Samaritan arrived.  I guess unless there were other winesses or video, we won't know. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Calumus

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2015, 11:13:08 AM »
Paragraphs, dude, paragraphs.  :police:

 :lol: Sorry about that. Ended up rambling while I was trying to stay awake and finish setting up someone's new laptop.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2015, 11:14:01 AM »
Humanizing dogs

God that was a good post. We started beginner dog training class last night with a 5 month lab shepherd cross(best guess) and a 7 year old trainer. There was a a irish setter a chihuahua a pit/shepherd pup and a gorgeous  7 month old gsd thats already 70 pounds.
I had a hard time with watching some of the people. Some of these dogs are screwed.
The nice lady with the chi gave her dog about twice what it needs for total daily food intake. And that was just in treats in one hour.
With the couples there there was typically one person who was really a dog person and the other should get a stuffed dog.
Sadly one of the worst offenders was my wife. But my 7 year old dog trainer kicked her mom into line pretty quick.
I was reminded why i got outa the dig training game. And it was not the dogs
I am by nature competitive but the latino couple with the big gsd is gonna be tough to beat. The guys english is rough but i could not believe how focused and well behaved his pup was. Hes probably not beginner class material but his wife might be.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Firethorn

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2015, 03:14:02 PM »
Dad had a rescue dog genetic tested, he was 0/3 on guessing what he was a crossbreed of.

Once you start dealing with 'mixed', accuracy goes way down.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2015, 03:52:54 PM »
Yeah it is easier when it's only 2 or 3 breeds
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2015, 04:21:04 PM »
a cross is 2 breeds. most crosses are easy enough to tell at least one parent, especially as the more common breeds are the most likely culprits, based on simple population.

a mix or a mutt is when crosses and mutts get mixed up. Then it gets tricky.

and, then, of course, you have the "pure bred" labradoodles and goldadoodles and idiotdoodles, which are even easier since the owners won't freeking shut up about it.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2015, 04:30:52 PM »

and, then, of course, you have the "pure bred" labradoodles and goldadoodles and idiotdoodles, which are even easier since the owners won't freeking shut up about it.

They just get a kick out of saying "doodle"
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2015, 04:48:38 PM »
They just get a kick out of saying "doodle"

I enjoy saying doodle as well. It doesn't change the fact that the majority of them are stupid, obnoxious dogs with crappy coat who are always owned by idiots who want them to be fluffy but have never heard of a thing called a comb.
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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2015, 04:49:50 PM »
"He'd never start anything; but wouldn't hesitate a second if teeth were bared."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dq3S1mqn1I

Not sure if she actually smiled, but it's likely.

To us a smile is happy.  To animals, a smile is aggressive.

Cosmetic surgery was necessary to repair her lip.
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Calumus

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Re: Man Killed By Pit Bull While Trying To Help Dog’s Ill Owner
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2015, 05:43:07 PM »
To us a smile is happy.  To animals, a smile is aggressive.


Only applied to other dogs with my Corso, he was bomb proof with people.  He had his CGC, TDI and TT by the time he was 13 months old. The dog in the vid however was showing signs of stress from the first second. The constant licking of lips on top of his handler having his collar locked tight while a stranger man-handles his face. On top of that, she's got her face right up to a dog she's never met before. This is a canine equivalent of an ND. That bite was just a warning shot and would have been completely avoidable, if only the "handler" or the reporter had any dog sense.