Main Frames anyone?

[mtnbkr]

I agree with Tyme on the wireless issue.  I only use it when I can't run cable or when the computer in question needs to be mobile.  My fixed machines are all connected via cat5.

I don't see any point to gig ethernet in the home unless you're gaming or moving large files around.  For small to medium sized files, internet access, etc, 100mb ethernet is cheap and easy.  I wouldn't even worry much about a dedicated server.  Just have one main PC with a bit more hard drive space with some file shares, shared printers, etc.  It'll suffice nicely for whatever "server" needs the average family will have (I'm assuming centralized printer management, data storage, etc).  You don't even need a dedicated server OS.  You can do this nicely with Win2kPro and probably XPPro as well (haven't looked at the latter).  Sure, it won't win any geek points, but it'll get the job done for a minimal cost in time and funds.  Just set the "server" shares up with local user accounts that match those on the "client" machines.  Cheap, easy, and doable by most without a geek on hand.

Of course, you can buy a real server and run Linux with SAMBA, but it won't give you much functionality you're likely to take advantage of and you'll have to educate yourself on another platform (not altogether bad).

Chris

[mtnbkr]

I'll have to remember that when I want sit on my back deck with my Dell Inspiron laptop...

You just agreed with him.  He's talking about fixed stations where cable can be run, not mobile stations or situations where running cable is impossible (or nearly so).

Chris

[tyme]

Gigabit home dsl/cable routers are common?

I was wrong, it does look like a few gig-e home "routers" have been released, but they're >$100, and more than it would cost to get a 10/100 dsl/cable router and a separate gigabit switch.

O RLY?

Gewehr, did you miss the "for laptops" bit?

My former residence in Florida was a cinderblock bomb shelter thingie that was provided for me by the Air Force.

Somehow I don't think this is the typical home network situation.  Most people have crawlspace and/or attics and hollow walls where they can run wiring, and even if you can't do it yourself and need to pay someone, the 20x speed increase and superior characteristics of a non-shared wired medium make it more than worth it.  Wireless isn't free, either.  For desktops, you generally have to add wireless cards.

And out of curiosity, what speeds were you getting through those cinderblock walls?  Not everyone can live with speeds around 10Mbit and below.

[Gewehr98]

Tyme, we all know you're a professional computer administrator - hence the cheeky UTC comments in the time update thread.  You're not exactly the typical home computer user, either.  My guess is you carry over what's at work to your home applications, right?

Many, many of the home wireless network users I've met or assisted have expressed a serious desire NOT to run Cat5e cables around their houses.  Most often, it's the wives of the houses who lay the law down with respect to that, be it computers, telephones, HDTV, or high-end audio.  Myself, I hate seeing exposed wiring too, and go out of my way to hide it or minimize visible cable runs, it's not just my wife that has a thing against it.  When I did a stint as a Dish Network installer last year, I saw a lot of wireless networks in my neck of the woods, particularly folks who rent, and even the ancient farmhouses with sandstone walls.   

You get what you pay for, period.  That holds true whether it's paying somebody to snort spiderwebs in the crawlspace/attic, where they get to snake cable into walls and install wallplate boxes (Not me!), or putting a PCI wireless card in the desktop machine and pushing the Secure Easy Setup button on the Linksys WRT-54G wireless router sitting next to the cable modem.  The value is really up to the customer and their unique situation or desire.   

[tyme]

You get what you pay for, period.  That holds true whether it's paying somebody to snort spiderwebs in the crawlspace/attic, where they get to snake cable into walls and install wallplate boxes (Not me!), or putting a PCI wireless card in the desktop machine and pushing the Secure Easy Setup button on the Linksys WRT-54G wireless router sitting next to the cable modem.  The value is really up to the customer and their unique situation or desire.   

Consumers would rather have a painless wireless install because they don't understand the real costs involved.

The real costs are continuous frustration.  Occasional wireless disconnects are aggravating.  Highly variable speeds depending on ... (looking up BOFH excuse...) sunspots ... are aggravating.  Increased transfer times between computers are aggravating.  Neighbors using 802.11b/g/n equipment, or 2.4ghz mobile phones, can cause further reliability problems.

Planning for wired ethernet might be unpleasant.  Nobody wants to put new plates in walls or run wires in the attic or under carpeting.  But once it's all done, it just works.  You can rest assured that your neighbor's wireless toys won't impact your network performance.

Oh, and I'm cheeky about everything.

[Gewehr98]

You're looking at it from the professional point of view, Tyme - just like Jim March does when he pushes the Linux solution.  Problem is, we live in a world that's not professional, not everybody has a sysadmin, or IT guy  available, or wants to spend the $ to have somebody come into their home and set things up. Folks want quick and easy, we're an instant-gratification society. Sometimes homes are easy to set up (or already built) with wired or fiber optic Ethernet, sometimes they're not, and folks choose the alternative - you have to respect that.  Linksys, D-Link, and everybody selling wireless products are very much aware of that, and that's how their business works. 

For the techno-geeks and retired B-52 guys like myself, running wired Ethernet doesn't present an insurmountable challenge. However, this cheeky guy is also lazy and doesn't like a lot of wires running hither and yon, so he has a combination wired/wireless network at his residence, running wired where I can, wireless where I cannot or will not.  The wireless has gotten considerably easier over the last few years, too. On the router end, I push the little white Cisco logo button.  It flashes for a bit as it configures the whole schmear, then goes constant white - voila'!  There's that quick and easy thing again.

Wireless is here to stay, whether we like it or not.  Right now, if I fire up my Dell Inspiron, I can count 7 or more wireless networks within range of the laptop - that's not even taking into account the smart ones who have disabled their SSID broadcasts.  Granted, maybe 3 or 4 of 'em have encryption enabled, but they'll learn their mistakes eventually, and it's not up to me to teach them the error of their ways.



 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Tyme is orienting toward security. Nobody can tap your cat5. I understand what he says and means.

Seems to me I paid about $150 for my Netgear 845 Gb wireless router with draft N wireless. Sure works nice.

Yes, I have a nasty blue cat5 cable stretched across the floor in my living room from time to time. I can't help it. I ain't crawling in that attic any time soon.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Cromlech]

I take it that either nobody cared, or even read the post I made last page?

You can get 54Mbps (and in some cases more) connectivity between rooms in the house by way of the mains electric supply. This is what I have in my house. No extra wiring cluttering up the place, and it is far more reliable than wireless. Sure LAN is much faster than that, but it is comparable in speed to wireless.

http://www.asokausa.com/content/pluglink.html



 

[Gewehr98]

Cromlech, I read it. I, personally, don't care for Powerline Ethernet, myself.

The jury is still out on using one's household 115vac wiring as an Ethernet conduit. I would hope the system works on the power strip feeding one's desktop system.  Otherwise you have to free up an outlet on the wall somewhere for the transceiver, and another one for the second transceiver, or more if you're running several computers. Home wiring is neither shielded nor optimized for bandwidth, nor was it ever designed to carry anything other than 115vac current. Compare that to Cat5e, which was designed from the start to carry data.  If you have seperately metered sections of your residence, you've fragmented your network.  To prevent somebody plugging an extension cord into your external garage outlet at night and compromising your network, you get to use DES encryption, which then throttles you back to 14Mbps. That's still faster than cable modems can deliver, but there's a reason they consider Powerline Ethernet to be the solution for the 10% club that can't do either wired Ethernet or wireless Ethernet. 

[RevDisk]

I take it that either nobody cared, or even read the post I made last page?

You can get 54Mbps (and in some cases more) connectivity between rooms in the house by way of the mains electric supply. This is what I have in my house. No extra wiring cluttering up the place, and it is far more reliable than wireless. Sure LAN is much faster than that, but it is comparable in speed to wireless.

How much radio frequency interference is that thing tossing off?  I've heard of the tech many times, each time same story.  Cranks out more RFI energy than most military jamming stations.

[Cromlech]

I see it as a jack of all trades, but a master of none. It can do what wireless does in a concrete and lead bunker, so long as it has sockets. As to how much radio interference it throws off, I have no idea, I have nothing for it to intefere with as far as I know. Unless I am having my bollocks fried by it, I'm not too bothered.

Anyway, I thought he only needed it for internet use, which it is more than capable of. While on usenet groups  I max out the 4 meg connection all the time.

[RevDisk]

I see it as a jack of all trades, but a master of none. It can do what wireless does in a concrete and lead bunker, so long as it has sockets. As to how much radio interference it throws off, I have no idea, I have nothing for it to intefere with as far as I know. Unless I am having my bollocks fried by it, I'm not too bothered.

Anyway, I thought he only needed it for internet use, which it is more than capable of. While on usenet groups  I max out the 4 meg connection all the time.

Inside the US, the FCC controls the airwaves.  We have strict rules on usage of frequencies, as well as interference rules.  (I'm not happy with some of the frequency restrictions, but I'm thankful about the interference rules.)

If your PLC causes RFI into licensed or controlled frequencies, not good things.  PLC/BLC is currently OK'd by the FCC "at sufferance".  In english, the technology is obviously acceptable, but jamming restricted frequencies is not.  It is the operator's responsibility to know what frequencies they are jamming.

Isolated usage isn't generally too bad.  Random interference will occur.  Already does with consumer electronics on a regular basis, tis why you must turn off all electronics during take off and landing while on an aircraft.  Widespread usage on the other hand, I'm sceptical.  That's a LOT of RFI.  We'd essentionally be massively jamming the airspace over the US.

[Cromlech]

They must be really strict to worry about homeplug devices. 

[mfree]

"They must be really strict to worry about homeplug devices.  "

They are, because the last time they weren't you had dozens of folks with TRS-80 model I machines accidentally jamming airport communications. That's just kinda sorta unacceptable, y'know.

[mtnbkr]

Speaking of this, there is a big problem with BPL (broadband over power line) and amateur radio in Manassas.  The BPL devices in use are terribly noisy from an RF perspective.  The FCC keeps blowing it off, but the amateur radio community has quite a bit of documentation proving their point.

Chris

[Manedwolf]

I just hate wires and clutter, so I wouldn't ever want the wired mess.

I have the wireless base station and other stuff hidden in a closet, and my "computer" is a single MacBook Pro connected wirelessly from wherever I'm using it.

Outside, when it's nice out. I hate office caves.

[Cromlech]

They are, because the last time they weren't you had dozens of folks with TRS-80 model I machines accidentally jamming airport communications. That's just kinda sorta unacceptable, y'know.

Wow, that's a lot more powerful than I thought!

[lee n. field]

They are, because the last time they weren't you had dozens of folks with TRS-80 model I machines accidentally jamming airport communications. That's just kinda sorta unacceptable, y'know.

Forgot about that.  The Model I was notoriously radio noisy, if I recall right.  This was before the days when PC radio emmisions were regulated.

[Manedwolf]

They are, because the last time they weren't you had dozens of folks with TRS-80 model I machines accidentally jamming airport communications. That's just kinda sorta unacceptable, y'know.

Wow, that's a lot more powerful than I thought!

Well, recently, a guy in I believe California had authorities come to the door to charge him with operating an ELT beacon in a nonemergency situation, apparently the Coast Guard was pinpointing his house and all. Turned out his plasma TV was malfunctioning and putting out the exact frequency of a marine/aviator emergency locator beacon... 

[Cromlech]

  Haha.

[Sindawe]

Turned out his plasma TV was malfunctioning and putting out the exact frequency of a marine/aviator emergency locator beacon...

See!  Plasma may be fine for cutting torches or for driving interstellar warp engines, but it has NO place in an honest man's glass-teat!

[Manedwolf]

Turned out his plasma TV was malfunctioning and putting out the exact frequency of a marine/aviator emergency locator beacon...

See!  Plasma may be fine for cutting torches or for driving interstellar warp engines, but it has NO place in an honest man's glass-teat!

Works pretty good in headlights, too!

Unless you have a dumb friend that gets curious and goes to look close around the bounceback shield of your HIDs, which is about like looking at a welding arc. 

[Perd Hapley]

I find that tin cans connected by cotton string are terribly under-rated.