Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on September 08, 2011, 02:35:15 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/longshoremen-storm-wash-state-port-damage-rr-144921214.html
Is this domestic terrorism?
... or is this akin to certain cold night in Boston, in December of 1773?
From where I stand, reading this:
The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility, but the company has hired a contractor that's staffing a workforce of other union laborers.
I call it terrorism.
This is not protest of a government policy. They are not controlling stockholders of the company in question, being shut out of decision-making-processes that they might have a right to participate in.
They are employees, that have declared their demanded wages to be higher than the company is willing to pay. They are free to offer their labor elsewhere. The company has obtained alternate labor from less expensive sources.
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no charges? why the heck not?
and the union pres needs to get cuffed and stuffed too
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I'm not sure it fits the definition of terrorism. No political goal, they just want the jobs. More like old school extorsion, mob style. "work our way or not at all"
That said:
Six guards were held hostage for a couple of hours after 500 or more Longshoremen broke down gates about 4:30 a.m
cutting brake lines and spilling grain from car at the EGT terminal
One sergeant was threatened with baseball bats
They were led by ILWU International President Robert McEllrath, who said they would return.
Just on general principals, I think they need to arm the security guards and tell them that I'd understand if they were in fear of their life if anyone tried to break down the gate. Next time, the police should respond to several mags worth of bodies outside the grain terminal fenceline. If were' going to pretend to be civilized, we can't allow the uncivilized to dictate our behavior.
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The International Longshore and Warehouse Union believes it has the right to work at the facility,
Bwahahahahahaha.
no charges? why the heck not?
Hey don't taze me bro, police is union just like us. we union stick together.
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I'd be perfectly okay with local PD swat units (multiple... for a total of about 50 officers or more) setting up fixed position LMG emplacements.
8 SAW's around the perimeter, with roving patrols armed with M4's and a 2 dozen man rapid response team on-site would make short work of a violent mob of 500 people, as long as they were unarmed.
Just on general principals, I think they need to arm the security guards and tell them that I'd understand if they were in fear of their life if anyone tried to break down the gate. Next time, the police should respond to several mags worth of bodies outside the grain terminal fenceline. If were' going to pretend to be civilized, we can't allow the uncivilized to dictate our behavior.
However, if they are already at the point of property destruction... I expect many of them are already covertly armed with handguns. An overt show of force with LMG emplacements and swat units will probably result in the next mob, if they choose to rise to the challenge, will be armed with long guns. 500 poorly trained folks with various long guns will most likely defeat a 50 man force with LMG and automatic weapons. Depends on how passionate the attackers are for their cause, or how much the defenders want to defend.
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However, if they are already at the point of property destruction... I expect many of them are already covertly armed with handguns. An overt show of force with LMG emplacements and swat units will probably result in the next mob, if they choose to rise to the challenge, will be armed with long guns. 500 poorly trained folks with various long guns will most likely defeat a 50 man force with LMG and automatic weapons. Depends on how passionate the attackers are for their cause, or how much the defenders want to defend.
Isn't Blackwater looking for a new employer? >:D
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Anyone (including other unionistas) who hate NAFTA ought to kick these guys square in the nads.
The a big part of the (unspoken) purpose of NAFTA was to open Mexican and Canadian ports and railways up to avoid the Longshoremen and the exorbitant port fees that supporting their six-figure pay and Cadillac bennies commands here in the U.S.
So the next time a minivan full of Girl Scouts is pancaked by a northbound Mexican 18-wheeler with shot brakes, you can thank the law of Unintended Consequences and the Longshoremen's union. =|
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IIRC, union goons (mostly coal miners) on the receiving end of hot lead from Thompsons when they went on a violent rampage had as much to do with passage of the 1934 NFA as anything the "official" gangsters were doing in Chicago . . .
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500 poorly trained folks with various long guns will most likely defeat a 50 man force with LMG and automatic weapons.
Are you serious?
Give me 2 days to set up the premises and I will defend any kind of harbor facility from such a 500-man force. And I am a military-historian, not a soldier. Any APS member with military experience will work out a far better plan than me. A police or milirary professional would do it faster, easier, and cheaper. A 50-man force is probably excessive, even, to use on a gang of rioters.
(the above statement is a technical observation and is probably not applicable due to financial, legal, and insurance realities)
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However, if they are already at the point of property destruction... I expect many of them are already covertly armed with handguns. An overt show of force with LMG emplacements and swat units will probably result in the next mob, if they choose to rise to the challenge, will be armed with long guns. 500 poorly trained folks with various long guns will most likely defeat a 50 man force with LMG and automatic weapons. Depends on how passionate the attackers are for their cause, or how much the defenders want to defend.
Nah; gun emplacements are easy to armor well beyond the ability of anything up to and including .50BMG. Just need heavy plate set in the right places with gaps to shoot from. Even rigging that up with big heavy stuff that's already on site at a railyard shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Remember that an attacker needs to advance, and thus either needs to carry all his cover or be exposed while moving between existing cover, while a defender is just fine with stuff that's been hoisted into the ideal spot ahead of time.
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Easy simple technical solution:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.21.by%2Fpub%2Fnews%2F2011%2F04%2F1302009844927668.jpg&hash=85c86d485a661368f13acbef29a26b86f6dc7c38)
Sentry turrets.
The device here shown is designed by a Belorussian arms company specifically for the purpose of defending key sites (harbor and electric facilities) from terrorist attack. It's designated A3 (Anti-Armor, Anti-Air, Anti-Terrorist). The turrets are modular, accepting a variety of weapons, and semi-autonomous, controlled/overseen by personnel in a remote command module. I am sure that American ingenuity and free enterprise can contrive a similar, or better, contraption.
It's armored against small arms fire. There's nothing a mob could do to it short of drowning it under the weight of their bodies.
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Meh....a few snipers in key locations would settle that problem easily.... :cool:
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Meh....a few snipers in key locations would settle that problem easily.... :cool:
That's another approach; an automated system with rubber bullets or other LTL stuff, backed up by snipers with suppressed rifles in case attackers start using lethal force. Trying to spot a good sniper who's had time to choose his spot in an industrial environment would make a needle in a haystack easy by comparison.
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Not hearing anything but a loud wet SPLAT as the ringleader's head is turned into a mist would tend to take the wind out of just about any violent mob.
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Not hearing anything but a loud wet SPLAT as the ringleader's head is turned into a mist would tend to take the wind out of just about any violent mob.
Indeed. As one of my defensive pistol instructors said (in only half-jest), "Shoot the mouthy one."
:)
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Didn't the Israelis meet with some success using suppressed .22s on rioting Arabs?
Rock throwing mob, and suddenly a rioter's leg goes out from under him with a little hole in the knee . . . and no idea of where it came from.
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Azred: I think militarizing cops even further is probably a bad idea. How about we just make it clear that private companies using lethal force against violent mobs is legal and protected?
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That's another approach; an automated system with rubber bullets or other LTL stuff, backed up by snipers with suppressed rifles in case attackers start using lethal force.
Lead is cheaper than rubber nowadays..... :cool:
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Azred: I think militarizing cops even further is probably a bad idea. How about we just make it clear that private citizens using lethal force against violent mobs is legal and protected?
Amended for clarity. =D
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IIRC, union goons (mostly coal miners) on the receiving end of hot lead from Thompsons when they went on a violent rampage had as much to do with passage of the 1934 NFA as anything the "official" gangsters were doing in Chicago . . .
First bombing by Army aircraft was against US citizens, specifically striking workers.
That was then. Now the unions are the goons, and have govt support.
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They served a purpose once. There needs to be a union, for unions, =D
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They served a purpose once. There needs to be a union, for unions, =D
Like the guys from the homeless shelter the unions hire to fill in picket lines, as 1099 contractors to get around having to do any witholdings, give any benefits, or pay them minimum wage... =D
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Like the guys from the homeless shelter the unions hire to fill in picket lines, as 1099 contractors to get around having to do any witholdings, give any benefits, or pay them minimum wage... =D
I started a thread here a while back about a union firing one of its employees for trying to unionize.
Ah, here it is: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=25670.0
:facepalm:
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This:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System
The best defense is making the attackers scream like little bi$&hes.
I want a handheld version for randomly messing with people.
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Hasn't it failed testing?
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Hasn't it failed testing?
No, works extremely well. It failed politics--turns out shooting people is fine, making them feel like they are on fire without hurting them isn't.
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What I find interesting about this whole Longshoreman Union dispute is that the port operator was bringing in another union to do the operations. So the Longshoreman Union was protesting being replaced by another union. Hmmm. I guess union solidarity only goes so far.