Author Topic: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....  (Read 4212 times)

Sindawe

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Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« on: July 14, 2007, 07:41:26 AM »
Florida man owes $10,000 for child who's not his
Story Highlights
Man fights paternity case in which he's not the father and never knew the child
He owes more than $10,000 in child support
Case highlights legal complexity of paternity laws nationwide
One in every three children in America is born to unmarried parents

FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida (CNN) -- Francisco Rodriguez owes more than $10,000 in back child support payments in a paternity case involving a 15-year-old girl who, according to DNA results and the girl's mother, is not his daughter.

Rodriguez, who is married with two daughters and a son from his wife's previous marriage, is fighting for leniency. "It's not right. I'm not the father, " he said at a recent court hearing.

He says he knew nothing about the other girl until paperwork showed up about four years ago saying he was the father.

He now has DNA results that show the 15-year-old girl wasn't fathered by him. He even has an affidavit from the girl's mother -- a former girlfriend from 1990 -- saying he's "not the father" and asking that Rodriguez no longer be required to pay child support.

Yet the state of Florida is continuing to push him to pay $305 a month to support the girl, as well as the more than $10,000 already owed. He spent a night in jail because of his delinquent payments.

Why is he in such a bind?

He missed the deadline to legally contest paternity. That's because, he says, the paperwork didn't reach him until after the deadline had passed. Watch Rodriguez plead in court for a break »

"It's like you're drowning every day," says Rodriguez, a massage therapist.

Rodriguez's case highlights the legal dilemma states face over how to handle paternity cases. More than a third of children born in the United States are born to unmarried parents, according to the National Center for Health Statistics.

But paternity laws vary from state to state, according to the Center for Law and Social Policy (CLASP), a nonprofit organization that works to improve the lives of low-income families.

Some states have detailed laws to challenge paternity within deadlines, while others offer little guidance. In most cases, men have 60 days to challenge paternity, according to CLASP.

After that, it can be "challenged only on the basis of fraud, duress or material mistake of fact," CLASP said last year in an update to a report on paternity law.

"There are no perfect answers," says Susan Paikin of the Center for Support of Families in Delaware. "Deadlines are imposed so that when families are broken -- the legal process is handled quickly."

She says state legislatures and courts struggle with paternity cases, trying to strike the proper balance between children's rights and adults' rights, always keeping in mind any potential harm to the child.

"This is a struggle. It's not something easy for courts or legislatures," she says.

Paikin says it's especially tricky in cases where a father has raised a child thinking it was his, only to learn years later the child had a different father.

"Most men who have a relationship with their child don't think of their child in terms of DNA," she said. "The real issue in most of these cases is anger and money."

Tampa Police officer Michael Anderson understands that sentiment. He paid child support for more than 12 years -- a total outlay he says amounted to more than $80,000. But a DNA test after he and his wife divorced showed the daughter he thought was his was somebody else's.

He then separated himself and his feelings from the child.

"I stopped having a relationship with the girl right from the beginning, when I found out," he said. "It was hard, but I had to do it."

A Tampa court earlier this year disestablished him as father and relieved him of his future child support payments. But by law, he is unable to get back the $80,000 he already paid.

Carnell Smith, who founded a group called U.S. Citizens Against Paternity Fraud, wants mandatory DNA tests when a child is born to avoid legal wrangling and anguish.

"Unfortunately, today it's not a crime for someone to lie about which man is the father," Smith said. "The mother doesn't have to return the money and rarely, if ever, is she prosecuted for perjury, for fraud."

Rodriguez's odyssey began in 1990, when he says at age 16 he had a four- to five-month relationship with a woman CNN is not identifying. He says when the relationship ended, he did not hear from her again until child support papers arrived at his home in 2003.

"My wife and I both had a confused look, and we're wondering, 'Where is the DNA test?' " he says.

But it was long past Florida's deadline to contest paternity. A court had already named him the father three years before when he did not respond to notices to appear, notices he says he never received because he had moved a lot.

He was now on the hook for monthly child support, as well as $10,623 in back child support.

He eventually paid for DNA testing. The test showed he was not the father.

A judge has now ordered a court-sanctioned DNA test for Rodriguez and the 15-year-old girl. Rodriguez has taken that test; the girl and her mother did not show up for their appointment to submit to DNA testing and it's unclear if the girl has complied.

CNN has repeatedly tried to contact the mother, but has been unable to reach her.

Rodriguez and his family continue to wait for answers.

"It's hard when your daughter needs sneakers and you have to pay $305 or your husband goes to jail," said Rodriguez's wife, Michele. "It's just unfair."

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/11/paternity.cases/index.html

=========================================================

I'd be inclined to take the kid out to someplace REAL high and see if I could teach it to fly.  'Specially if the brooder was being a P.I.A. about the whole situation.
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Thor

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 08:45:49 AM »
Quote
Carnell Smith, who founded a group called U.S. Citizens Against Paternity Fraud, wants mandatory DNA tests when a child is born to avoid legal wrangling and anguish.

"Unfortunately, today it's not a crime for someone to lie about which man is the father," Smith said. "The mother doesn't have to return the money and rarely, if ever, is she prosecuted for perjury, for fraud."

Right there is the answer. Mandatory DNA testing in cases where there may be some question and prosecution for perjury &/or fraud. I don't think there should be any "time frame" to contest paternity, either.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2007, 09:07:21 AM »
The paternity and divorce laws in this country are a mess.  In the eyes of family courts men are nothing more than walking checkbooks for women.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 10:35:36 AM »
The paternity and divorce laws in this country are a mess.  In the eyes of family courts men are nothing more than walking checkbooks for women.


Which is why fathers are easily replaced by welfare checks.   sad
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MechAg94

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 10:53:52 AM »
Quote
Tampa Police officer Michael Anderson understands that sentiment. He paid child support for more than 12 years -- a total outlay he says amounted to more than $80,000. But a DNA test after he and his wife divorced showed the daughter he thought was his was somebody else's.

He then separated himself and his feelings from the child.

"I stopped having a relationship with the girl right from the beginning, when I found out," he said. "It was hard, but I had to do it."
I can understand the legal sentiment and separating yourself from the wife, but I doubt I could agree with he did.
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Strings

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 05:08:17 PM »
The child support system in this country has been screwed for years. I have a friend who pays for a child on the other side of the state. When postal rates increased, a couple of his checks got lost in the postal system: insufficent postage (he wasn't aware of the price increase). He said something to the lady in the agency's office about sending his checks from now on via certified mail (thus providing a paper trail): he was informed the office wouldn't accept such (he STILL can't get a straight answer as to why).

 Dealing with any of the "Child's Agencies" sucks. If you come to the attention of any of them, you can expect a fisting of monumental proportions (unless, of course, you really ARE a lowlife/deadbeat. They don't seem to want to target those)...

wmenorr67

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 05:42:58 PM »
I am currently dealing with this in a reverse sort of way.

Long story short my daughter finally realized I was not her "father" and started asking questions.  Well my wife answered them which included finding the "father."  Once we made contact with him, he finally demanded his rights as a "father."  Well part of those rights included about $35,000 in back support.  He is lucky that Oklahoma will only go back 5 years.

Well to shorten the story even more, we finally convinced him to settle for paying us about $14,000 of that.  Plus he decided that he really didn't want to be a "father" and has decided to sign over his rights to allow me to adopt.

Now the kicker is that my daughter has been living with my wife and myself for the past 11+ years.  But now I have to have a OSBI background check done on myself plus we may even have to kick in $500 for a DHS home study.  Our attorney is trying to get the home study waived.  Didn't have any luck with the background check being waived though.  Go figure that the government can give me a Top Secret clearance but to adopt a child that I have been raising for the past 11 years I have to submit to another background check and possible home study. angry
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nico

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 05:58:55 PM »
Quote
After that, it can be "challenged only on the basis of fraud, duress or material mistake of fact,"
The notion that there would be a statute of limitations on paternity is completely ridiculous. 

I agree 100% with the idea that the supposed father should have the legal right to request a paternity test before he is imposed with any legal responsibility for the child's welfare.  If the mother of the child doesn't comply with the test, she gets no money. 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if under the current system, once the guy's name is written on the "father" section of the birth certificate, he's responsible for the kid until he proves otherwise, essentially allowing the woman to hold out for months or years while the man is legally obligated to pay her money that, even if he is vindicated, does not have to be returned.  (sorry for the run-on sentence)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 06:33:41 PM »
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if under the current system, once the guy's name is written on the "father" section of the birth certificate, he's responsible for the kid until he proves otherwise...
It's even worse than that.  I've heard of cases where once the man's name is on the birth certificate, he's responsible no matter what, even he proves that he isn't the father.

There was one case, in Florida I think, where a man signed the birth certificate of a child even though he knew he wasn't really the father.  He did it out of kindness, so that the mother and newborn would have a family, a home, and a steady income.  The mother dumped him some years later and took up with another man, and sued to force the "non-father" to pay child support for the child that wasn't his.  The court ruled that interests of the child were more important than the interests of the "non-father", and that the "non-father" therefore had an obligation to continue providing his income to the mother and child even after sher kicked him out of their family.

SomeKid

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 08:26:28 PM »
Stories like this remind me that I really don't like marriage/commitment and to be wary of women.

If I ever do allow myself to father children, they will be tested immediately. No, the woman won't know. If it turns out I am being cheated on, I would quietly prepare for divorce, and totally blindside her with the papers.

Hopefully I won't be screwed by the system. (Modern America, land of the free, home of the slave, a nation of people hoping not to be the next victim of the system...)

Thor

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 09:00:34 PM »

Now the kicker is that my daughter has been living with my wife and myself for the past 11+ years.  But now I have to have a OSBI background check done on myself plus we may even have to kick in $500 for a DHS home study.  Our attorney is trying to get the home study waived.  Didn't have any luck with the background check being waived though.  Go figure that the government can give me a Top Secret clearance but to adopt a child that I have been raising for the past 11 years I have to submit to another background check and possible home study. angry

Sounds similar to what I went through when I was growing up. I saw my real father once, from the time I was two until I was 23. Child support was intermittent, at best. My step-dad & mom pretty much used the same tactic to get him to allow me to be adopted. However, there was no real "home study" performed, as this was in the early 70s.

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zahc

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2007, 05:43:07 AM »
The statute of limitations in Ohio, from what I understand, is one year. A week after my BIL's ex's child's birthday, he recieved paperwork from her for child support. The child isn't his and she knew it all along, but waited a year before she said anything to him. Now he's stuck paying child support on a kid that is not his while she is shacking up with another man (still not the real father) and he has only partial custody.
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HankB

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 08:21:00 AM »
I think I'd choose jail time before I'd pay for someone else's illegitimate kid.

And I'd use whatever money I had to publicize all I could about the idiot judge who ordered me to pay for someone else's kid - name, address, Social Security number, etc.

This kind of garbage is just so wrong it's almost beyond comprehension.
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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 08:59:27 AM »
This is one case where I'd welcome government intrusion.If the mother were required by law to have a paternity test done within,say,10 days of birth I think it'd be a good thing.Bill the mom for it too.

I believe that making it a legal requirement would give both parties an emotional "pass" as well.No trust issues,either it is or it isn't.No tears & screaming about not trusting the other.I read recently that the percentage of dads raising someone else's kids un-knowingly was in the double digits.

I'd expect this course of action to lead to a bit of tension during pregnancy.But,just like anything else,if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear.

I'd imagine that that some of those that choose to get married might take their vows a bit more seriously too.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 07:12:26 PM »
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if under the current system, once the guy's name is written on the "father" section of the birth certificate, he's responsible for the kid until he proves otherwise, essentially allowing the woman to hold out for months or years while the man is legally obligated to pay her money that, even if he is vindicated, does not have to be returned.  (sorry for the run-on sentence)
That goes the other way, too. I know a guy who several years ago was involved with a woman a few years older than he, and a real whack job. She got herself pregnant, then bailed out of the relationship. But ... she had (still has, as far as I know) a very well-paying job as a do-nothing assistant to the mayor, so she didn't need child support. She chose a different way of making life miserable for our hero -- he really wanted to be involved in bringing the kid up, so the "lady" simply refused to identify him (or anyone) as the father. Since she was financially able to take care of the hospital bills, there were no laws requiring that the father be identified.

This guy spent years, and thousands of dollars, going through the courts to be declared the legal father of his son. And once that had been established, the witch then took every opportunity to screw him regarding visitation, suitability as a partial custodial parent, and anything else she could think of.
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Strings

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2007, 12:29:55 AM »
I truly believe there is a VERY special level of Hell reserved for people who use their children as weapons against former partners...

 If there isn't, I'd happily volunteer to design and run it. The amount of damage these... people... do to their kids is enough to make me forget my more pacifistic tendancies...

LadySmith

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2007, 02:32:31 AM »
I can say that this is a mess that I will never ever have to face.
Nor will I ever cause anyone else to face it.
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Strings

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 02:46:25 AM »
Sorry... guess the whole "Dad wants to be involved, but mom blocks things" gets to me. I've seen the effects, and it REALLY pisses me off (the reverse happens too, but not as often)...

 on the other hand, one of "our" kids is the child of divorced parents. Mom has custody, but dad spends every possible hour with her (including being present for our "adoption"). Parents like him give me hope for humanity (something I need, given why we meet these kids)...

wmenorr67

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 02:56:20 AM »
The situation in my case is that my wife was not going to stop the "father" from seeing our daughter as long as that is what both of them wanted.  The problem arose when she would get to visit with him it was all about him and his wife.  Plus he complained about the amount of child support he was paying but went out and bought our daughter a horse.  Which she never really got to see or enjoy since he lives in NW Missouri and we are in Tulsa.
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Fly320s

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2007, 05:38:24 AM »
Now the kicker is that my daughter has been living with my wife and myself for the past 11+ years.  But now I have to have a OSBI background check done on myself plus we may even have to kick in $500 for a DHS home study.  Our attorney is trying to get the home study waived.  Didn't have any luck with the background check being waived though.  Go figure that the government can give me a Top Secret clearance but to adopt a child that I have been raising for the past 11 years I have to submit to another background check and possible home study. angry
This isn't directed at wmenorr67.

Why is a background check required for adoption, but not for having a child by birth?  Seriously.  If the welfare centers are that concerned about children, why aren't people screened prior to getting pregnant/giving birth?

Yeah, I know, personal liberty.  Bah.  Some days I wish for a totalitarian regime.
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Strings

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2007, 06:00:29 AM »
Fly320s: never dealt with Child Protective Services, have you?

 The reason a father doesn't need a background check before the mother gives birth is because they aren't already in The System. Once The System gets ahold of you, forget it!

Fly320s

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2007, 06:53:44 AM »
Fly320s: never dealt with Child Protective Services, have you?

Nope.  Hope I never need to.

Like my wife and I say, "We prefer to rent, not own."
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Werewolf

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2007, 07:52:51 AM »
Quote
Tampa Police officer Michael Anderson understands that sentiment. He paid child support for more than 12 years -- a total outlay he says amounted to more than $80,000. But a DNA test after he and his wife divorced showed the daughter he thought was his was somebody else's.

He then separated himself and his feelings from the child.

"I stopped having a relationship with the girl right from the beginning, when I found out," he said. "It was hard, but I had to do it."
What a total unadulterated ahole! The girl grew up believing that guy was her father and and he believed she was his daughter. A 12 year relationship tossed out the window because he found out he wasn't the sperm donor.

Fatherhood has way more to do with being there for the child, raising her, doing things with her, teaching her etc than it does with some common DNA.
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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 08:45:56 AM »
An ahole?Why?The guy put twelve years of his time,his effort,& his money into this girl.Only to find out that he had been defrauded.

That the girl had to find out that her mother was a whore & had to lose the only dad she's known is unfortunate.

To me it only makes sense to walk away.

 

Marnoot

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Re: Here is a mess I hope none of us ever have to face....
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2007, 09:17:33 AM »
An ahole?Why?The guy put twelve years of his time,his effort,& his money into this girl.Only to find out that he had been defrauded.

That the girl had to find out that her mother was a whore & had to lose the only dad she's known is unfortunate.

To me it only makes sense to walk away.

The man certainly has cause to have unkind feelings towards the mother, but I don't think he should just ditch the daughter like that. Such an attitude implies that the daughter never meant much to him more than what he thought was a continuation of his family line.

I'm with Werewolf on this one; it's not the girl's fault her mom defrauded her father (the guy that raised her, as a father, not the sperm donor). Frankly the girl must not have ever really meant much to him for him to just throw the relationship in the trash in such a way. If she did mean as much to him as a daughter normally does to a father, he's an a-hole and an idiot. The fact that her mom is also an a-hole does not in any way diminish his a-hole-ness.