Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 230RN on July 29, 2010, 03:48:10 PM
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So your Colorado Xcel Energy electrical bill went up, eh?
Last month the "Tiered Rate" billing for electrical usage took effect in Colorado.
Excerpt from Xcel's web page at
http://www.xcelenergy.com/Colorado/Residential/ManageMyAccount/UnderstandingMyBill/Pages/colorado-tiered-rates.aspx
“Tiered” Rates Customer Q&A
What is a “tiered” or “inverted block” rate?
Under a tiered rate structure different prices are charged for specific amounts (or “blocks”) of electricity used during a month, measured in kilowatt hours (kWh). Each successive tier indicates more electricity used. The first tier is charged a lower rate while the next tier is subject to a higher rate.
Why are you implementing a tiered system?
The Colorado Public Utilities Commission (“CPUC” or “PUC”) requested that we provide several tiered rate options as part of Phase II of our May 2009 Electric Rate Case. We provided the requested options, and recommended a summer-only, two-tier rate structure as a bridge to more accurate time-of-use rates sometime in the future. Other parties in our rate proceeding recommended year-round inverted rates and three or four tiers.
On March 29, the PUC approved a two-tiered rate structure during the summer months (June-September) for all our Colorado residential customers. (In a rate case, Phase I determines the cost of service. The second phase determines the specific charges for customer classes to recover the costs identified in Phase I.)
The rationale for tiered rates is to more accurately reflect the cost of providing electricity service to customers. Our costs are higher during the summer, so the tiered rates provide a “price signal” to customers who can choose to use less electricity to manage their energy bills. We deliberately moderated the gap between the two tiers to lessen the impact on customers. In the winter there is no justification for the higher price signal.
What are the two rates?
For 0-500 kWh per month, the cost is 4.6 cents per kilowatt hour. For use that exceeds 500 kWh, the cost is 9 cents per kWh.
How long will the tiered rates be in effect?
A two-tiered rate structure will be in effect each year from June 1 through September 30, until the Commission modifies our residential rate structure in a future proceeding. During the other eight non-summer months, you will be charged the lower Tier 1 rate for electricity used.
So, as Rick Wagner says at
http://www.gjsentinel.com/opinion/articles/income_redistribution_is_behin
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What really bothers me is the fact that all this also increases revenue for local and state governments.... bigger bill, bigger sales taxes.... right? Does this sound like a conflict of interest for the Public Utilities Commission to you?
Up yours, Xcel --and the bureaucrats you rode in on.
Terry, 230RN
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we got tiered rates here, but the more you use the less per kilowatt hour rate you pay.
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we got tiered rates here, but the more you use the less per kilowatt hour rate you pay.
but that makes to much since. it will never be allowed to continue. :facepalm:
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Welcome to the club. I'm in a condo, relatively conservative in my energy use (rarely use a portable A/C unit I have, don't keep TV, lights, or computers on all day, CF bulbs, etc.) and I'm in the low end of tier 3 here every month.
I'm not sure what I would have to do to stay in tier 1. I think it would be no electricity use except for lights and maybe the fridge.
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i hope i'm wrong, but have you tried turning everything off, and checking you meter? sounds like you might have a parasite. [tinfoil]
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Wait till the Sturmobamfuher puts a cutoff switch on your electric and gas 'cause you've used your proletaiashare of fuel.
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Oh, I'm not hitting the 500 kWh threshold at all. If I go over 300 a month, it's a lot. (I get down to around 150 kWh in fall and spring.) Main thing is I don't use the dishwasher except rarely, to keep the seals OK, and I disconnected the electric stove --use only the microwave, unless I want to fire up the Coleman camper grill to broil something. I'm a world-class, Gold-Medal-Winning Cheapskate.
So I'm not squawking on my own behalf, I'm squawking on Principles.
My dog isn't being gored and I don't have an ox in this fight.
I'm just bellyaching about the sneaky income redistribution principle and the fact that the Public Utilities Commission, whose members are appointed by Colorado politicians (the Governor), must have an inherent conflict-of-interest in allowing this Income-Redistribution to happen --since any rate increases result in increased revenue to the state because of the increased sales tax on the increased cost per kWh over 500 --goldarned nearly double.
Terry, 230RN
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I don't understand which principle is being violated here. There is no redistribution going on. If they were giving away watts to poor people it would be redistribution.
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I don't understand which principle is being violated here. There is no redistribution going on. If they were giving away watts to poor people it would be redistribution.
It's being redistributed into the state governments pockets. Please don't tell me you don't see the conflict of a state appointed board controlling the prices of something that state sales tax is collected on do you? Not to mention that due to it being state controlled and not controlled by supply and demand that the price is likely artificially high.
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^It's also being redistributed in the sense that the higher prices would not apply to smaller (hence, usually, poorer) households, only to the larger homes and those evil industrial users. (I'm in a small senior citizens' apartment, so as I say, my ox isn't being reamed.)
So my main gripe is, as RaspberrySurprise put it better than I, "Please don't tell me you don't see the conflict of a state appointed board controlling the prices of something that state sales tax is collected on do you? "
And if you want to see some socialist BS, take a look at this PR ("propaganda") effort to convince us that it's "fair"."
http://coloradoenergynews.com/2010/06/tiered-rates-are-fair-rates/
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It's the principle of the thing.
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If they were giving away watts to poor people it would be redistribution.
In a sense it's supposed to be, as 'poor' people theoretically use less power, and 4.6 cents is likely below cost - I pay more like 10 cents*, and I'm in the region. Of course, that might include taxes.
Of course, this isn't necessarily true, as it also subsidizes single middle class people, people who have gas heaters, rich people who have spent the $$$ to reduce their energy load while poorer people hang onto older, less efficient appliances, etc...
*Hmm... $8 customer charge, 7.646 cents/kwh summer, 6.907 winter. Plus a 3.8% 'interim rate adjustment'.
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No I don't see how the tiered system violates some principle.
If your complaint is the state is setting the rate of something they tax, your complaint is with the state controlling the rate AT ALL, not the tier.
If your complaint is redistribution, I will point out they are "subsidizing" the first 500KW for rich and poor people. Even if the poor people are less likely to use more than that, they would be charged the same rate if they did.
While it IS social engineering, so are a thousand other things our governments do at many levels. My pet peeve is Virginia Power, our local utility monopoly, has rates and taxes controlled by the state. They donate a fair amount of money to charities I object to, but i have no other option except turning off the power. So again, your (and my) complaint is with the state controlling the utilities, not with the tiered system.
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Isn't this discrimination against the poor undocumented immigrants who are living 30 or 40 in the same house...?
:P
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It could be worse. You could be in California, paying $.40/kWh for your power due to all the "fairness" issues.
My girl out here in DAvis pays around that for her family's power usage via PG&E. Central Valley dwellers are nearing revolt due to the price of electricity out here.
California's terrible attempt at deregulation, along with near universal contempt for building any new generation for years put thm in this position.
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Isn't this discrimination against the poor undocumented immigrants who are living 30 or 40 in the same house...?
:P
nah.
they don't need water pumps(anchor babies carry buckets)
don't need heat(sheer number of people in the house heats it up)
don't need A/C(open the windows, what's it matter if the humidity ruins the house the bank owns it anyway)
=D as the man said, "the grass(pot) is always greener"
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Post transferred to PM
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Gas and electricity for domestic use are not subject to Colorado state sales tax.
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Whoops! My gaffe. I've been misreading the 3% Franchise Fee as a sales tax. Seems to me there used to be a state sales tax on the bill, but that must have been years ago.
Franchise fees are collected by local governments.
Thank your for correcting that gross error, Pat McCoy, and welcome aboard!
:(
Terry, 230RN