Throwing shots high

[zxcvbob]

I posted this at THR yesterday and never got any replies.  Y'all are smarter than they are anyway.  (I'm still surprised nobody answered since they have more readers)

I took about 9 months off from Bullseye shooting, plus last summer when I did get to the range I mostly practiced rifle. Now I'm back in Bullseye and my scores suck bigtime. Last year I was shooting in the mid-250's, and now I'm having trouble breaking 200. It's coming back, but what's really killing my scores is I'm throwing some of the shots way high. And it's usually on the slow-fire target. The more time I have to take the shot, the worse I do.  I never throw a shot on rapid-fire, my groups there are just too big -- I can deal with that.

I looked at the shot analysis chart, and it says I'm "breaking wrist up". Not real sure what that means, but it kind of sounds like limp-wristing. I'm shooting a heavy long-barreled Ruger Mk II .22/45 if that makes any difference. Do I need to grip it tighter? Or get out the dumbbells and do wrist curls? Or practice shooting at a blank piece of paper so I don't rush the shot when it comes perfectly on target? Even on the slow fire, if I concentrate on slowing *squeezing* the trigger that helps.

Any suggestions?  I know, "Practice", but I also need to not waste ammo (until the market comes back) by practicing badly.  Thanks.

[AJ Dual]

Stupid question, you aren't using a different load, a faster .22LR? Even if it's the same, have you chronographed them?

Could be your grip and hold is still right, but the "hits" are the ones you're pulling down?

[zxcvbob]

I'm using Aguila standard velocity in the canary-yellow boxes because that's what I have a few thousand of.  It's what I shot last years, and it's the lightest-shooting ammo I've found that works the action properly.  I also have a few hundred Winchester Wildcat (?) that are a lot snappier.

I thought maybe I was "heeling" the gun, but the chart shows that would send them up and a little to the side, and not as high.

I need to get one of the Distinguished Experts to coach me a little.

[French G.]

Stupid question, you aren't using a different load, a faster .22LR? Even if it's the same, have you chronographed them?

Could be your grip and hold is still right, but the "hits" are the ones you're pulling down?

Interesting theory there.

Other possibilities. I've heard the "breaking wrist up" referred to as heeling, and that makes sense to me, an involuntary reflex to recoil where the meat of your palm presses in on the backstrap. Not sure if that applies to rimfire much. A fair amount of where a handgun hits has to do with what happens to the gun while the bullet is still in the barrel. That being why slower heavier bullets usually hit higher at 25 yards, the gun has more time to roll up before the bullet is gone. Could it just be a practice issue where your grip is not consistent and the gun is escaping your hand for the fliers? Or maybe your gun is dirty as crap? I don't clean a .22 much, but if accuracy is going, time to eliminate variables.

ETA, practice we can't do anymore. Best practice ever for my 9mm shooting was dumping many mags of .45. I have a hard time finding non-gun exercises that get the same muscles. But those were the days when a case of .45 was $190 and it lasted 2 weeks if I was lucky. Dryfire with a weighted gun?

[zxcvbob]

"The gun is filthy" is a good guess because I seldom clean .22's but I have been using a Boresnake at the beginning of each range session since I remembered that I have a .223 rifle snake and it will work just fine in a .22LR pistol.  That seems to have cured some feeding issues I was having with the Aguila ammo.

I'm sure it's some kind of flinch or grip problem, and it's made worse by the 7" barrel because the bullet stays in the barrel longer.

[geronimotwo]

do you typically line up your sights on the bottom of the bullseye?

[zxcvbob]

do you typically line up your sights on the bottom of the bullseye?

That's how I aim a revolver -- at least as well as I can see the bullseye.  I have a red-dot sight on the .22 and I put the dot in the middle of the black.

[Fly320s]

Start removing variables and possibilities.

- Shoot the pistol off of a rest. Is it shooting to point of aim?
- Have an excellent shooter shoot your gun. Is it shooting to point of aim?
- Change your grip. Try harder. Try looser. If you use two hands, squeeze harder with you off hand.
- Have someone balance an empty case on your front sight. Dry fire without making the case fall.

[T.O.M.]

Any change in your vision?  Getting reading glasses improved my fine target shooting with iron sights as I could see them clearer.

[RoadKingLarry]

Aim lower.

[Blakenzy]

I have the same issue with a 1911. At close range POA=POI. But past 15 yards or so bullets begin to strike high.

[Ron]

I have the same issue with a 1911. At close range POA=POI. But past 15 yards or so bullets begin to strike high.

My Rock River Arms Commander sized 1911 will shoot POA/POI up close and personal. In reality though the sights are set at 6 o'clock at 50 yards, "pumpkin on a post".

Why they sighted in a 4 1/4" gun for 50 yards is beyond me, especially a gun marketed as a carry piece.

All I can suggest regarding the OP is make sure you aren't releasing your grip as the shot goes off, maintain a consistent hold. In the past I've noticed that when I'm trying to not disturb my sight picture that I unconsciously loosen my grip. Having said that I guarantee you have more rounds downrange than me in a bulls-eye environment.

[280plus]

Well, first off clean the gun and see if that helps. Mine would consistently put the first round of slow fire in the 6 ring at 5 oclock. Thought it was me for the longest time. Cleaned the gun and it went away.

I second the motion for some benchrest time. You should be able to shoot a clean target from the bench.  Work on it till you can. maybe do 10 rounds from the bench every time to start your session.

Any disturbance to the gun as the trigger is squeezed is caused by anticipating the recoil. Never try to fire in response to the fact that your dot is in the middle. The gun will always go off AFTER it passes through the bull. Best to ignore the fact that the dot is moving all over the place and concentrate on a nice, slow, clean trigger squeeze so that the break of the trigger is a surprise! Dry firing can help, you may be able to identify what it is you're doing at release if you are not being distracted by the gun firing.

Have a friend watch you and have them load your gun one shot at a time with a dud in there once in a while to see what you do when it doesn't fire. Always a telltale method to see someone pull the trigger expecting the gun to fire when it doesn't.

I hear pushups are good for slowfire. Plus hooding a dumbell out there will help develop those muscles. Just don't over do it.

[zxcvbob]

I have some crappy Remington "target" ammo that I bought years ago that has a 10% or higher misfire rate.  Might be good for some ball-and-dummy practice so I can see WTF I'm doing when I think it's going <bang>  It doesn't work loading the mags with ammo and snapcaps myself, even if I don't look I subconsciously count the shots and figure it out.

[charby]

barrel might be leaded

[Myself]

Is your elbow consistently locked?

[280plus]

^^^ What he (she?) said! I have a bad habit of unlocking my elbow at the last couple shots of sustained fire and That'll sure put some flyers out there for you.

I have some crappy Remington "target" ammo that I bought years ago that has a 10% or higher misfire rate.  Might be good for some ball-and-dummy practice so I can see WTF I'm doing when I think it's going <bang>  It doesn't work loading the mags with ammo and snapcaps myself, even if I don't look I subconsciously count the shots and figure it out.

Funny, I was just telling a friend how the remington misfires about 10% of the time. There's you're answer! So it IS actually good for something. lol.

I've taken to using the remmy for slow fire and saving the last remnants of my CCI for timed and rapid. least ways if it misfires during slowfire it's no big deal. It DOES fly funny once in a while though. Doesn't seem as consistent as CCI. Or doesn't group as tight

[zxcvbob]

Is your elbow consistently locked?

I've never even heard of that.    I'll have to guess "no", although I'm probably more consistent on slow fire than timed or rapid.  One more thing to check... Thanks.

Do I want it locked or not?  Or will it work either way as long as it's always the same?

Funny, I was just telling a friend how the remington misfires about 10% of the time. There's you're answer! So it IS actually good for something. lol.

A lot of my friends cuss Remington "Golden Bullets", but I have pretty good luck with them.  These are labeled something like "Target 22" in a yellow plastic box, and they cost 2 or 3 times more than the bulk remmy GB's.

[280plus]

yes, you want your elbow and wrist locked

Good to know on the remington. Now to find some lol

[sanglant]

rem makes 2 versions of the "GBs" one is in a normal ammo package, good stuff. if there priming machine was running right.*

one in bulk pack, bet it's just as good. before it's packed and shipped.


YMMV

*do a search, i think it's been fixed now.

[280plus]

yes, I had heard it was a priming issue. Last batch we had of the 100 round plastic paks still showed about 10% failure rate. Not sure how old they are.

[zxcvbob]

I figured out at least part of it.  My grip was bad and the gun barrel was not inline with my forearm.  So I had to kind of twist my wrist to get the dot on the target.  I started checking that the dot was centered when I held the gun straight before I even raise it, and that helped a lot.

One of the more experienced shooters said I'm canting the gun to the right about 5 degrees.  Sure enough he's right.  I've tried making sure the gun frame is straight up and down -- but it feels unnatural and I don't think it makes any difference.  (at least I'm not tipping it 90 degrees -- I would have to get some of those HoMeBoY Nyte Sytes®   )

[French G.]

A cant is perfectly acceptable if it helps you position your wrist comfortably, is consistent and the sights hit in the right spot.

[280plus]

Yup, can't is not a problem. One of the best shooters I know starts straight but ends up canted almost 45* to the left at the end of a string.