Author Topic: Why Have Public Schools At All?  (Read 3257 times)

roo_ster

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Why Have Public Schools At All?
« on: June 13, 2007, 12:45:01 PM »
Public Ed 101
Why have it?

By Jonah Goldberg

Heres a good question for you: Why have public schools at all?

O.K., cue the marching music. We need public schools because blah blah blah and yada yada yada. We could say blah is common culture and yada is the governments interest in promoting the general welfare. Or that children are the future. And a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Because we cant leave any child behind.

The problem with all these bromides is that they leave out the simple fact that one of the surest ways to leave a kid behind is to hand him over to the government. Americans want universal education, just as they want universally safe food. But nobody believes that the government should run 90 percent of the restaurants, farms, and supermarkets. Why should it run 90 percent of the schools  particularly when it gets terrible results?

Consider Washington, home of the nations most devoted government lovers and, ironically, the city with arguably the worst public schools in the country. Out of the 100 largest school districts, according to the Washington Post, D.C. ranks third in spending for each pupil  $12,979  but last in spending on instruction. Fifty-six cents out of every dollar goes to administrators who, its no secret, do a miserable job administrating, even though D.C. schools have been in a state of reform for nearly 40 years.

In a blistering series, the Post has documented how badly the bureaucrats have run public education. More than half of the District of Columbias kids spend their days in persistently dangerous schools, with an average of nine violent incidents a day in a system with 135 schools. Principals reporting dangerous conditions or urgently needed repairs in their buildings wait, on average, 379 days & for the problems to be fixed, according to the Post. But hey, at least the kids are getting a lousy education. A mere 19 schools managed to get proficient scores or better for a majority of students on the districts Comprehensive Assessment Test.

A standard response to such criticisms is to say we dont spend enough on public education. But if money were the solution, wouldnt the district, which spends nearly $13,000 on every kid, rank near the top? If you think more money will fix the schools, make your checks out to cash and send them to me.

Private, parochial, and charter schools get better results. Parents know this. Applications for vouchers in the district dwarf the available supply, and home schooling has exploded.

As for schools teaching kids about the common culture and all that, as a conservative I couldnt agree more. But is there evidence that public schools are better at it? According to the 2006 National Assessment of Educational Progress history and civics exams, two-thirds of U.S. high school seniors couldnt identify the significance of a photo of a theater with a sign reading Colored Entrance. And keep in mind, political correctness pretty much guarantees that Jim Crow and the civil-rights movement are included in syllabi. Imagine how few kids can intelligently discuss Manifest Destiny or free silver.

Right now, theres a renewed debate about providing universal health insurance. For some liberals, this simply means replicating the public-school model for health care. (Stop laughing.) But for others, this means mandating that everyone have health insurance  just as we mandate that all drivers have car insurance  and then throwing tax dollars at poorer folks to make sure no one falls through the cracks.

Theres a consensus in America that every child should get an education, but as David Gelernter noted recently in The Weekly Standard, theres no such consensus that public schools need to do the educating.

Really, what would be so terrible about government mandating that every kid has to go to school, and providing subsidies and oversight when necessary, but then getting out of the way?

Milton Friedman noted long ago that the government is bad at providing services  thats why he wanted public schools to be called government schools  but that its good at writing checks. So why not cut checks to people so they can send their kids to school?

What about the good public schools? Well, the reason good public schools are good has nothing to do with governments special expertise and everything to do with the fact that parents care enough to ensure their kids get a good education. That wouldnt change if the government got out of the school business. What would change is that fewer kids would get left behind.


I can't find anything to disagree with on this one.
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BozemanMT

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 02:13:24 PM »
there's nothing public about government schools
Reason #1 to home school
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 02:50:55 PM »
Quote
Really, what would be so terrible about government mandating that every kid has to go to school, and providing subsidies and oversight when necessary, but then getting out of the way?

What if they got out of the way altogether?  Let me decide whether my children will read or know how to divide, thank you very much. 
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Ron

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 03:06:26 PM »
Letting the gooberment do something as critical as education was a bad bad move. Great intentions, not so good results compared to what could have been.

We need to start the de-evolution of the public schools post haste.


Boomhauer

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 03:54:50 PM »
Quote
Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?

To instill the Communistic and Socialistic values, of course.

Karl Marx, anyone?

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roo_ster

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 05:38:22 PM »
Jean Jacques Rousseau was the original modern totalitarian philospher.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 06:13:39 PM »
The ancient one being Plato.  Man, I hate the ancient Greeks. 
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K Frame

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 07:51:13 PM »
why?

Gotta have some place to warehouse all the substandard students, otherwise they'd just roam the streets in packs.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 02:14:36 AM »

Quote
Really, what would be so terrible about government mandating that every kid has to go to school, and providing subsidies and oversight when necessary, but then getting out of the way?

I don't want my future son or daughter to go to school at all.
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tyme

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 08:40:02 AM »
Quote
Gotta have some place to warehouse all the substandard students, otherwise they'd just roam the streets in packs.
What about after they graduate?  *Growl*
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K Frame

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 08:42:34 AM »
Quote
Gotta have some place to warehouse all the substandard students, otherwise they'd just roam the streets in packs.
What about after they graduate?  *Growl*

What the hell do you think prisons are for?

Geez, for a moderator you're mighty dumb. Were you warehoused or something?  cheesy
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tyme

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 08:44:07 AM »
In kindergarten.  I guess it never wore off in 12+ years of non-government schooling.  Sad
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ConfuseUs

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2007, 09:29:12 AM »
Umm, the U.S. Constitution requires that there be public education IIRC from my public school days. So that's one reason why we have public schools, because to do otherwise is unconstitutional. As a general rule the return on investment over the history of the country has been good.

The government is the prime mover behind things like highway construction, reservoir building, police forces, etc. but a lot of products and services that the government "provides" are actually produced by contractors in the private sector. The gripe that many people have about the public education system is that it is a poorly performing government monopoly, and the private sector options effectively price out anyone who isn't high income. So a lot of people would really like to see the heavy hand of government taken off of education and replaced with private contractors who will be more accountable to the public. This is because the system is an impenetrable cabal of administrators, teachers unions, boards of education, etc. who are ultimately accountable only to growing the size of the system, not operating it for it's intended purpose.

MechAg94

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 10:49:03 AM »
I could live with public schools, but I think the Feds and State governments should stay out of it.  The local counties, cities, or school boards can run it with 3rd party non-Profit accreditation groups.  I hesitate to even say the states and Feds should set standards because if they do, it will only open up the door for running them again.
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HankB

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2007, 10:49:39 AM »
Umm, the U.S. Constitution requires that there be public education IIRC from my public school days. So that's one reason why we have public schools, because to do otherwise is unconstitutional.
Would you kindly cite the text? Thank you . . .
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K Frame

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 10:55:28 AM »
"Umm, the U.S. Constitution requires that there be public education IIRC from my public school days."

No offense, but your public school days didn't do much for your education on the Constitution.

There is no such requirement in the Constitution.
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tyme

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2007, 11:22:51 AM »
I wouldn't put it past some public schools to hand out doctored (and by "doctored" I mean "edited for clarity") versions of the Constitution.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2007, 02:44:29 PM »
Umm, the U.S. Constitution requires that there be public education IIRC from my public school days. So that's one reason why we have public schools, because to do otherwise is unconstitutional.

Thank you for providing us with a wonderful example as to why public schooling should be abolished. Cheesy
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2007, 04:28:31 PM »
Quote
A standard response to such criticisms is to say we dont spend enough on public education. But if money were the solution, wouldnt the district, which spends nearly $13,000 on every kid, rank near the top? If you think more money will fix the schools, make your checks out to cash and send them to me.

What if the parents (those who give a flying fickled finger of fate) were given that money (with the restriction that it could only be used for education), 10 of them could could get together, hire a teacher for $80,000 a year and have $50,000 left for a building and school supplies.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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roo_ster

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2007, 05:42:10 PM »
Sergeant Bob:

That's $50K/per YEAR for infrastructure & equipment & such.  That buys a lot of office space and stuff to put in it for 11 souls (teach + 10 pupils).  Just think how much you could lease, with tech refreshes every 2 or 3 years.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2007, 06:38:21 PM »
Umm, the U.S. Constitution requires that there be public education IIRC from my public school days. So that's one reason why we have public schools, because to do otherwise is unconstitutional.
Would you kindly cite the text? Thank you . . .

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matis

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2007, 06:45:19 PM »
There is NO way to fix or reform the public schools.

This is especially so since they became enamored of multiculturalism and diversity, which can only destroy any society which embraces them.

How can any school satisfy the diverse values of multicultural (and Balkanized) parents?


Close the government schools and free up their resources to allow parents to choose the school that teaches what they want their children to learn: religious schools, various flavors of secular schools and so on.

Even those parents who are genuinely interested cannot possibly counter the  focused efforts of the entrenched teachers unions, politicians, "administrators", bureaucrats (sp?), special interest groups (gay "rights", animal rights, global warming) and etcetera. 


My daughter attended a religious school until 3rd grade, when I took her out and we home schooled her for the next 6 years until 8th grade.  It cost less than $500 year and that's because we splurged.  It can be done on $200-300 year.

She graduated her religious high-school as valedictorian, just completed an additional year's study in Israel and is now touring the country before returning home.


Would you turn over your kids to the post office to teach them what is true and what is important in life?  If not, why would you imprison them in the government school system?


We get what we deserve.  By allowing the govenment schools to continue we sacrifice not only our children but the future of this once great country.

(Sorry, but this is one of those topics that TRULY p/ss me off!)


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roo_ster

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2007, 08:08:12 PM »
Preach it, Brother matis!

We are starting our kids out in a private religious school...one we have seen quite a few products of that are fine kids.  We have high hopes.  If it doesn't work out, though, we'll homeschool.  Between my wife and I, we're good up through college-level coursework in most subjects to include math & sciences.

I consider my school taxes a complete and utter waste.
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SteveS

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2007, 04:41:37 AM »
I went to an excellent public school and received, IMO, a good education.  Our daughter will start public school next year.  Homeschooling is always a good option.  There are plenty of religious schools, but I do not follow their beliefs, so I won't consider them. 
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Art Eatman

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Re: Why Have Public Schools At All?
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2007, 05:47:48 AM »
The article is about what public schools have become, not what was intended or what they were.

The intent was to spread the cost among the public at large, with poor folks' kids able to get an education--and education would not longer be available mostly to the relatively well-to-do.  Anm educated populace benefits everybody, including those with no children of their own.

But that was in theschool-daze of Latin, math up to at least Analytic Geometry and Spherical Trig.  Serious efforts at reading and writing.  History and government (Civics) and chemistry and physics.

Self-esteem was earned by meeting challenges.

And if you sassed a teacher, shame on your sorry butt.  Not just at school; it was worse at home.

Art
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