20ga over-under advice?

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm hoping to get drawn for turkey this year, but even if not, I'd like to go out for dove this fall and winter again.  Something I do with my brother and dad some years.

My current bird gun is an ancient Winchester M12.  I'd like to get an over/under, and I think 12ga is a bit overkill for little doves.

Looking online this morning at Bass Pro just for an idea of what's available and it seems that nothing under $1000 gives me blued barrels.  CZ cerakotes the barrels green, Mossberg seems to be painted black, not sure on the Savage/Stevens.  Who is TriStar?  Stoeger appears to be blued, but they have a funky trigger that the first pull sets the hammer mechanically for the second pull, rather than using recoil from the shell to do that.  Seems recoil method is more prominent.

Browning's Citori Hunter Grade 1 is nice.  It's $2k though.  A bit more than I want to spend.

[charby]

12 gauge is not over kill for doves. I shoot doves with 1oz of 8 shot. Nothing is shredded.

I have been looking at a 20 gauge sxs just for something different. I'm probably going to get the CZ Bobwhite with an English stock.

[BobR]

I grew up hunting dove with a 12 gauge. It works just fine. The last foray into dove hunting was Eurasian Collared Dove at a friends wheat farm in WA. I set up a blind near the silos and left it there. Then I moved in with a scoped 22 bolt using shorts at about 35 yds and sniped the crap out of those things. Lots of fun. Collared dove are an invasive species, check your regs, there may not be a limit/season/etc on them where you live. If shot during mourning dove season they do not count to your daily limit if so. It was like that in WA, I ate dove all year.

TriStar is Turkish, I have heard nothing but good about them.

If you wanted to move away the OU then Mossberg makes a nice, blued, affordable pump in 20. Anytime you start looking at OU the price goes up pretty quick. Also don't dismiss a Remington 1100 in 20. When I was shooting skeet every day I had Remington 1100s in 12,20,28 and .410. Il loved shooting those guns, especially in the smaller bores. You can go all day long.

But like you said, a blued OU is a thing of big bucks it seems.

bob

ETA: Charles Daly may have just the thing you are looking for.  https://www.charlesdaly.com/product.php?id=593

ETA (again) You can whack Eurasian dove all year long and as many as you want. You just need to know where you are because certain areas do have regs for them, probably to protect the native population from getting shot from misidentification, https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/19120248/2023-24-Dove-and-Pigeon-Regs.pdf

[MechAg94]

I have used a 12 gauge for dove with no issues. 

I have seen Rem 1100 shotguns show up occasionally on a local fishing forum.  Sometimes a 20 gauge shows up.  I bought one off a guy a couple years ago and now have a late 1960's vintage 1100 that is pretty nice.

[HankB]

Instead of getting overly fixated on brand or gauge, pay more attention to gun fit. A cheap gun that fits you will put you on target faster & more reliably than an expensive gun that doesn't. And as already pointed out, you CAN get "light" 12 ga loads.

I have a Citori skeet gun and a trap gun, both have seen a lot of use and are still tight, and of course they happen to fit me very well. I'm surprised (but shouldn't be) that they're going for ~$2k now.

About 35 or 40 years ago a bunch of Sarasketa O/Us came in from Europe and a friend of mine got one. (I think there were a couple of companies making these under similar names - he had one of the really cheap ones.) He DID say he expended some effort making the gun right - he deburred the internal parts carefully, and then had the machine shop at work dip the parts in a case pot to harden them, as they were on the soft side.  AFAIK it worked OK for him.

[Tuco]

If you're used to a Model 12, then you'll probably prefer a O/U with a  high profile reciever and/or barrlels that sit above your hand.

I'm a SxS guy, and shoot best with a low profile OU, one where the barrels are wrapped by the forend and sit closer to my palm.  For me at the time it was the Browning 425, the Ruger Red Label, and a Beretta series beyond my price range.
I recall most o/u guns put the sighting plane too high for my shooting style.  I never went through with the purchase, but knew what i needed- because of what i would shoot best.

The only way I could find out was try some out during skeet league and spend a lot of time at the shops pulling up on exit signs and trying to trace the wall/ceiling lines.

[Tuco]

And another thing..
Like charby and bobber said, 12 isnt too much for dove. Fast 7/8 or 1oz loads sound right.  Shooting 20 gauge equivalents through a 6lb gun will turn quickly unpleasant.
But the gun.  A 20 is attractive because its smaller, more agile, lighter than a 12 - in theory.
In my experience this is true when you get into higher end guns built on a proper 20 gauge action.  Some makers will put little tubes on a 12ga frame and call it good.  I'm not naming names but some 1980s Japanese 3" 20s were just logs.
And speaking of 3" 20 ga.  If you think you'll need a magnum load (turkey you say?) you don't want a light gun. Patterning turkey loads in my +8 lb 835 is torture. Don't do it to yourself. Just get a 12.
In the "reasonable" price range there are so many more 12ga o/u to choose from made by the ususal suspects.

But yeah, a well balanced, sub 6lb 20 is a delight.  Just don't expect it to do the work of a 12.

[French G.]

I always wanted a Ruger red label but then I am not much of a shotgunner. Buy all of them you might want and sell whatever doesn’t grow on you.

[Ben]

Another guy here who says to go with the 12. I've always done my upland hunting with a 12 gauge. I used to use a Red Label and liked it. I have no idea what they're going for now. Back in the boomer days, they were the best bang for the buck.

I currently use a DeHaan SxS 12 gauge for upland. It handles like a dream. I do an annual pigeon shoot in Oregon, where they fly in big numbers and fast and furious. No issues with the gun's weight for fast shooting. As others have said, a GOOD 20 gauge double can be a dream, but it does limit you.

[K Frame]

I don't hunt anymore, but in years past I had no problems taking dove with 12 gauge and 7 1/2 shot.

These days all of my shotgunning is on clay birds. I'm particularly fond of my Stevens 311 SxS 20 gauge. It's an older one from the 1950s, but man is it fun.

[Cliffh]

I've never shot a Tristar, only assembled & sold them.  The first Tristar O/U I put together cut the *expletive deleted*it out of my finger.  The edges of the lever under the forearm that releases the forearm to assemble/disassemble was/is sharp!  At least on the 7 or so I've had in my hands.  The stock & forearm are lightweight plastic.  Keeps the weight down, but it sure feels cheap.

[charby]

Going from an old Win Model 12 to a modern shotgun with interchangeable choke tubes is going to be a delight for you.

Only reason I want a 20 gauge SXS is just mainly to have a lightweight field gun and have a classic feel. Pheasant populations aren't the greatest in Iowa these days, so I might as well enjoy my days afield with my new pup.

My main field firearm is a Benelli SBE, harvested a lot of fowl with that.

Regarding turkeys, I'd rather have a 12, they can be tough birds to humanly kill. That being said, I still use a 2 3/4" heavy field load in #6, because I like to decoy and kill them at 10-15 yards. Yes my shotgun is a 3.5" 12, but I reserve the 3.5" shells for shooting Canada geese.

[HankB]

I don't hunt anymore, but in years past I had no problems taking dove with 12 gauge and 7 1/2 shot.

These days all of my shotgunning is on clay birds. I'm particularly fond of my Stevens 311 SxS 20 gauge. It's an older one from the 1950s, but man is it fun.

The first gun I bought myself after turning 18 was a Savage Fox B-SE SxS. Still have it - took more than a few birds with it.

An SxS shotgun is traditional for peasant hunting.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iAcQVIokg

[K Frame]

"The first gun I bought myself after turning 18 was a Savage Fox B-SE SxS. Still have it - took more than a few birds with it."

NICE! Always wanted a Fox.

Friend of mine in high school used to use his Dad's Fox Sterlingworth from the early 1930s. I think his grandfather originally bought it. 12 gauge. Beautiful gun. We were shooting one day when he reloaded it and shut the action. The right barrel fired. He reloaded it, closed the action, and it fired again. Something had broken internally and when the action shut the hammer fell. IIRC took a couple of months to get it fixed.

I'm pretty sure it was that gun that gave me my love for SxS doubles.

Given the choice between a SxS, an O/U, or a pump, I'll pick the SxS first and the pump second.

[AZRedhawk44]

So you guys telling me to stick with 12 in my shopping, here's my full plan.

The only 2 hunting shotguns I have in the safe right now are a single shot .410 and that beat up M12.  I have really enjoyed being out stomping the desert for dove with family, and Alexis has come with my brother and dad and me a couple times and enjoyed it too, but she hasn't brought anything down with the .410.

My thinking with a 20 O/U is on several lines.
1.  I kinda dig how O/U shotguns can be taken apart in the middle easily.  My Jeep is kinda narrow and putting a full length bird gun in the back assembled is hard.
2.  If I go alone, I can take the 20 or the M12, whichever I like better.  I'm kinda annoyed by the M12 because it has some magazine tube tension issues, but it works and I take birds with it.
3.  If I go with Alexis, she could use this proposed new 20ga instead of the .410 and get better results.  She doesn't like the kick of 12ga, but .410 isn't getting the job done.  She can hit clays, but you can see them take a couple pellets and wobble but not break.  That .410 doesn't pattern well at all.
4.  Owen is probably about 3-4 years away from being able to join us both, starting off with the .410 with some hand-thrown clays and maybe his first couple dove outings, but the same problems will probably apply to him as apply to Alexis.

I'm definitely going to need a 20ga at some point here soon.  Length of pull for my 6'3" frame is going to be drastically different for them... it's possible that any 20ga O/U I buy is suited to my size and not well suited to them.

[AZRedhawk44]

This bug isn't going away, and I think it's going to end up manifesting in a 12ga steel receivered O/U somehow, on Charby's and others' recommendations to stick with 12.

I've got 3 contenders.

1. CZ Drake Southpaw.  Seems they reverse the barrel release on the southpaw variant, which is nice.  This is the only lefty-friendly model of the 3 I'm looking at, but I don't see the release being a major issue (though right-biased stocks could be an issue on others).  But they do a black chrome instead of bluing, which is bothersome.  Pistol-grip stock.  I believe it's a white dot front sight.  Extractor with no ejection, which I could see as nice given I will mostly be hunting in the desert, and dove and quail seem to enjoy cholla clusters.  Seems I can get this for around $800.  No point stepping up higher on CZ's product line if I really want bluing; all their O/U shotguns are chrome finished.

2.  Franchi Instinct L.  This is going to be around $1400-$1500.  Case hardened steel receiver, blued barrels.  Fiber optic front sight.  Prince of Wales stock.  Despite being "right handed" that seems to only apply to the barrel release orientation, not to any part of stock grip design or cheek pad.  This checks all the boxes I think I want, I'm just unsure what a Prince of Wales stock grip feels like compared to a pistol grip.

3.  Browning Citori Hunter Grade 1.  Knocking at $2000.  Blued receiver and barrels.  Silver bead front sight, I think I'd rather have fiber optic.  Pistol grip stock.  Nominally right handed, but again it looks very neutral in orientation much like the Franchi.  Japanese made rather than Turkish for the CZ, and Italian(?) for the Franchi.  This is probably the safest bet for me to go with, and least likely to regret getting.  I'd most likely want a different front sight on it though.

Anyone have insight on a Prince of Wales stock cut?

[Ben]

No stock advice, but as a lefty, I've never had an issue with any break lever on a SxS or OU gun. They have all been really easy to work.

[Tuco]

I run a P.O.W. grip on my double trigger SxS.  It's a compromise.  As someone who shoots Churchill I should prefer a straight grip, but I'm used to POW.
My 30" 391 autoloader has a competition style pistol grip, right handed, with a flared cap. That -in theory- locks the hand and wrist in the same position every time offering consistency on the line. But I'm not in it for the money and shoot all clay games from low gun. Even 27 yard trap, or cutthroat, and the pistolgrip isn't a problem.
I personaly like the P.O.W. on a grouse gun, especially in the thicket, because i need handling  options chasing the dog though aspen. I will take the 391 for winter pheasant (open country) and its not uncomfortable.

[charby]

Start combing pawn shops and gun shops, you might find something lightly used that is what you want.

I hardly ever purchase a new firearm, unless it's something I "must" have.

I would prefer a blued CZ and I may just start looking for a used one.

[K Frame]

I'm left-handed, but I'm right eye dominant, so shooting from the right shoulder it is.

[AZRedhawk44]

I think I'll go to Bass Pro today, since they have a high end gun room for high-fallutin' snob sporting arms.  I should be able to at least get a feel for a prince of wales grip vs straight vs pistol grip on an O/U, and get that question answered.

[Kingcreek]

Good fortune to you in your search.
I got a 20g Ithaca model 37 for Christmas right before I turned 14. I hunted everything with it including a couple truckloads of wild Nebraska ringnecks.
When I got out of college I thought I needed a 12g and why not a double? Found an almost new browning BSS with 26” barrels. It was a death ray on pheasants and quail. Must fit me pretty good.
My dad liked it but wanted a 20g for himself. They were long discontinued and I told him he would never find one. Darned if he didn’t find a NIB BSS with fixed IC/MOD choked. I now have it and it is sweet, makes the 12 feel heavy and slow.
When my wife wanted to try hunting with me and the dog, I found a very rare browning micro lightning citori with shorter LOP and 23” barrels and screw in choke tubes. It probably hasn’t had a box of shells through it in 30 years. I can’t hit with it because it doesn’t fit me and wife gave up on it many years ago. It’s not for sale but I sure like having it around maybe for one of the grandaughters.

[grampster]

I hunted all sorts of small game with my dad's Ranger double barrel 20 ga for many years, including my 1st deer using a Brenneke slug.

[K Frame]

"I got a 20g Ithaca model 37 for Christmas right before I turned 14."

The Ithaca 37... another one of my weaknesses.

I have my Dad's Featherlight 12 gauge with the corncob forearm. LOVE that gun, even if it beats the everloving *expletive deleted*it out of me.

I've been considering getting one in 20 gauge for some time, but it has to have the corncob forearm. It's such a classic look.

The Ithaca Gun Company also brought out a version of the 37 in 28 gauge. That one has also been plucking my banjo strings, so to speak...

[Kingcreek]

Mine is the featherweight delux newer than the corncob forestock. Gee it would be over 51 years ago. Dad got one just like it that we picked up on our way to Nebraska that fall. My sister now has it.
I had a 20g with plain barrel and cob forestock but sold it years ago. Wish I had kept it too.