Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on May 11, 2011, 01:01:29 AM
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I like to finish out each day with a bit of entertainment, so I do two things every night. One is to read a couple of comic strips. The other is to read the letters to the editor in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. The letters are almost always funnier.
Today there was one on CCW laws in Wisconsin. The logic is so convoluted that I got a brain cramp. Here's a sample:
Please remember that the main reason one wants a gun is because one imagines needing a gun. But one of the reasons that person has never actually needed a gun in the past was because he or she was not carrying one.
The rest of the letter is here (http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/121532944.html).
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Pure genius.
Let's see if I can mimic this logic. Simply by carrying condoms on my person, I can vastly increase my chances of having a spontaneous orgy - and in fact, the reason I have never encountered a spontaneous orgy is because I do not run around with condoms at all times.
I may test this logic out next week in the vicinity of South Padre Island.
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But one of the reasons that person has never actually needed a gun in the past was because he or she was not carrying one.
Who says I have never actually needed a gun in the past?
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Who says I have never actually needed a gun in the past?
Because you're alive right now. That's their argument.
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Because you're alive right now. That's their argument.
So, are those people evil, or just stupid?
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So, are those people evil, or just stupid?
Yes.
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Monkeyleg, you bastard. I read the quote
Please remember that the main reason one wants a gun is because one imagines needing a gun. But one of the reasons that person has never actually needed a gun in the past was because he or she was not carrying one.
And I can feel my IQ dropping every time I read it. It's killing my brain cells. I could smoke some crack and do less damage than that sentence did. It's simply that *expletive deleted*ing retarded. It makes absolutely no sense at all.
It's much like this strip:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fnerd_sniping.png&hash=47bcff36d65b6a904dcf18a90bd4771d3b8d3530)
We should turn this type of logic around and use it on them. It'd be a field day...
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I too can feel little grey cells fleeing my skull cavity as I try to comprehend teh stoopid.
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I think what they are trying to say is a variation on the "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" idea. They are saying that if you didn't have a gun, you would find a non-violent solution to whatever comes your way.
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I think what they are trying to say is a variation on the "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" idea. They are saying that if you didn't have a gun, you would find a non-violent solution to whatever comes your way.
And they truly believe that. They think a gun will only "escalate" the problem and if you just talked calmly everyone would work it out.
They also may know that if they had a gun they would use it on people with whom they are angry and believe we are just the same.
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I think what they are trying to say is a variation on the "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" idea. They are saying that if you didn't have a gun, you would find a non-violent solution to whatever comes your way.
Nobody is actually literally stupid enough to believe that.
...I hope.
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Nobody is actually literally stupid enough to believe that.
...I hope.
You've not met enough starry-eyed liberals.
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I'm in graduate school.
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I'm in graduate school.
I'm aware of that. Israeli starry-eyed leftists may have more of reality smacking them in the face what with being surrounded by enemies.
American leftists live in a nice, safe cocoon.
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I have met a person who personally kissed Yassir Arafat. On the mouth. And who believed the founding of Israel was 'the Holocaust of the Palestinian people'. The fact he had been a decorated combat infantryman in 1973 changed little.
I have met a person who believed technological progress is evil. I have heard a person say "Of course Indian children are happy not to be starving due to Borlaug's work, but, on the other hand..."
I have seen people who disrupted classes to hold 're-enactments' of the terrible suffering of the Palestinian people at security checkpoints.
I have seen people - many of them Jews - put on fake 'Palestinian' garb and disrupt studies by shouting "With blood, and fire, we will regain Palestine!" in Arabic.
The bar is set really low here.
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I think what they are trying to say is a variation on the "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" idea. They are saying that if you didn't have a gun, you would find a non-violent solution to whatever comes your way.
They? You mean it took more than one person to write that letter, and it still was full of specious (at best) logic?
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You've not met enough starry-eyed liberals.
But he's talked to some of our moderators...
Speaking of stupidity and confrontation, there were two small towns where I grew up, that developed a rivalry. Some mouth-breather actually wrote to the paper, suggesting that the two towns have a rumble, to decide which town was best.
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But he's talked to some of our moderators...
Speaking of stupidity and confrontation, there were two small towns where I grew up, that developed a rivalry. Some mouth-breather actually wrote to the paper, suggesting that the two towns have a rumble, to decide which town was best.
I think I saw Springfield and Shelbyville do this on 'The Simpsons'.
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I don't even worry about it anymore. Since the Legislature scheduled the first hearing for tomorrow, that's a really good sign CCW has been fast-tracked, and we may well see a vote by June.
Any objections by the population at large, or the likes of Jeri Boniva at WAVE are moot. We just need to ride the legislature to get the best bill we can. I suspect we'll get an ultra-clean shall-issue bill, and that the Constitutional Carry bill is sacrificial to draw the bulk of the fire of anti's and libtards.
The fact that the Constitutional Carry bill has some big oversights like forgetting a second tier of optional shall-issue permits for reciprocity with other states makes me think this is a throw-away bill.
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The fact that the Constitutional Carry bill has some big oversights like forgetting a second tier of optional shall-issue permits for reciprocity with other states makes me think this is a throw-away bill.
Even with Republicans having control of both chambers and the governor's office, and having stood up to the public unions, they're not going to take a beating for passing permit-less carry.
I suspect that the constitutional carry bill was introduced to mollify those who demand nothing less than permit-less carry ("See? We tried."), and also to make it seem like they were being reasonable by passing a bill that requires permits, rather than that risky and dangerous constitutional carry bill.
Of course, the only reason that Republicans are going to pass a carry bill is because they imagine that they need to pass a carry bill. One of the reasons that they never needed to pass a carry bill was that Wisconsin never had one. (For those of you in Rio Linda, please reference the quote from the letter in my first post).
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Even with Republicans having control of both chambers and the governor's office, and having stood up to the public unions, they're not going to take a beating for passing permit-less carry.
I suspect that the constitutional carry bill was introduced to mollify those who demand nothing less than permit-less carry ("See? We tried."), and also to make it seem like they were being reasonable by passing a bill that requires permits, rather than that risky and dangerous constitutional carry bill.
Of course, the only reason that Republicans are going to pass a carry bill is because they imagine that they need to pass a carry bill. One of the reasons that they never needed to pass a carry bill was that Wisconsin never had one. (For those of you in Rio Linda, please reference the quote from the letter in my first post).
I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush. I have Grothman and Strochota representing me, both of which would want to pass the Constitutional carry on principal* if nothing else. On the other side are the squishy rinos like luther olsen who need to be voted out.
*They would pass it just so that no new state bureacracies are formed for licensing. :laugh:
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Let's see if I can mimic this logic. Simply by carrying condoms on my person, I can vastly increase my chances of having a spontaneous orgy - and in fact, the reason I have never encountered a spontaneous orgy is because I do not run around with condoms at all times.
More accurately, because tons of people survived driving before seat belts were mandatory, (or even available) seat belts are absolutely unnecessary. Moreover, seat belts cause wrecks and should be banned.
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Well, no - I haven't been murdered yet.
But then if I had, I wouldn't be needing a gun anymore either.
;/
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This is also ironic, because it's the current State Supreme Court affirmative defense to being caught illegally carrying right now.
"You must have a reasonable belief that you may be the victim of violent crime by having been a victim once before." [tinfoil]
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"You must have a reasonable belief that you may be the victim of violent crime by having been a victim once before."
I was attacked by a cat once, does that count?
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I was attacked by a cat once, does that count?
"A moose once bit my sister . . ."
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Before this thread goes all Monty Phython... In the Permit Carry bill, is there a non-resident permit ? And if so what hoops do you have to jump through to get one ?
I'd really prefer not to go to Centre Co. PA to renew my permit.
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Before this thread goes all Monty Phython... In the Permit Carry bill, is there a non-resident permit ? And if so what hoops do you have to jump through to get one ?
I'd really prefer not to go to Centre Co. PA to renew my permit.
If I read it right there's a reciprocity set up, basically if they accept Wisconsin's, Wisconsin will accept theirs.
Wait, are you an out-of-stater living in and parasitically feeding off the resources of true Wisconsinites?
Cause I don't know about that, other than shame on you. =D
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The last two or three bills as originally written provided instant reciprocity with all issuing states. That provision was one of the first gutted in each legislative session.
Please get people to keep pressure on the Repub's to keep that provision in the bill. I'd like to be able to carry legally (for a change) when I'm in Wisconsin (although now with my mom and dad gone, I won't be there very often).
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What I'm now understanding from the NRA CCW bill workshops held at the local Cabela's store is that they want ideally to pass BOTH bills. With two bills, I just assumed "one or the other", I was stuck in the "box" and honestly just didn't consider that passing both bills would be the two-tier system with permitless carry for everyone, but still having optional permits like AZ and AK has.
I still think the constitutional bill is a long shot, and could very well still just be a throw away distraction to draw fire from the anti's to let the shall-issue bill through cleanly, however I'm much more optimistic that they're actually serious about it. =)
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If I read it right there's a reciprocity set up, basically if they accept Wisconsin's, Wisconsin will accept theirs.
Wait, are you an out-of-stater living in and parasitically feeding off the resources of true Wisconsinites?
Cause I don't know about that, other than shame on you. =D
No, *Charlie Brown sigh* I live in Illinois .
My folks live in Indiana and I have friends that I visit in Missouri (NOT Fistful), so as long as I have a permit from somewhere in the known universe I could legally carry in those states. Pennsylvania's was $25 and the Centre Co. Sheriff (denny nau (http://www.dennynau.com/)) was very pro-2A. You could mail in your app, a copy of your FOID (http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/), a check and get your permit in a week or so. Good in ~17 states, but primarily the two I visit. Pennsylvania changed the law this year. No more mail in apps. You have to appear in person. It's 596 miles one way. Hard to justify with gas at $4.00+ per gallon.
I could get either a UT or FL, but it's like $175+ for a Utah permit or $200+ for Florida once you pay for the class, then getting fingerprinted, and then those state's fees.
That's why I asked whether either Wisconsin bill will have Non-resident permits. Wisconsin could make a killing selling permits to those of us on the other side of the Cheddar Curtain, aka Flatlanders or FIB's.
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No, *Charlie Brown sigh* I live in Illinois .
My folks live in Indiana and I have friends that I visit in Missouri (NOT Fistful),
=( :'(
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Here's another gem from this evening:
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CONCEALED CARRY
Proposal opens dangerous box
The Wisconsin Legislature twice has passed a concealed-carry bill, and twice it was vetoed by then-Gov. Jim Doyle. It is clear that Gov. Scott Walker will approve some form of a gun bill, and that concerns me.
I am not alone on this. The vast majority of law enforcement personnel is strongly against this legislation also. The bill proposed by Sen. Pam Galloway is irresponsible and ridiculous, allowing just about anyone to carry a gun with no training and not having to get a permit from the state.
How ironic that guns would be banned from the state Capitol and other government buildings but would be allowed just about anywhere else, including in plain sight in a car.
How ironic that hunters need training before being issued a license, but not the rest of the population who would want to carry a gun.
What about the argument that guns are needed for protection? Most people who use a gun, other than for hunting and sport, use one as a form of aggression, not protection. What is to prevent a person from using a gun in a road rage situation or after having had too much to drink if a gun is so easily available?
I was proud that Wisconsin was one of only two states that does not have this Wild West philosophy. I think whatever form of this concealed-carry law is passed will only open up a very dangerous Pandora's box.
Sue Schmitt
Wauwatosa
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Ms. Schmitt is still reading from the 1990's Brady Bunch talking points. Doesn't she know that the 2000-2011 version is to say that guns are too complicated for regular folks to operate?
I didn't realize that I owned a gun to use as a form of aggression. I must have been sleepwalking the last time I shot somebody.
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Ms. Schmitt is still reading from the 1990's Brady Bunch talking points.
Proponents of carry restrictions are always talking like this is the 1990s, and concealed carry laws are something new and potentially dangerous. I suppose they get away with this because most Americans are unaware of the progress made in the past 25 years.
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Proponents of carry restrictions are always talking like this is the 1990s, and concealed carry laws are something new and potentially dangerous. I suppose they get away with this because most Americans are unaware of the progress made in the past 25 years.
True, but the irony is in the turnabout. In the 1990's, the Brady Bunch argued that guns made it too easy to kill people. As the number of shall-issue states grew, they changed their talking points to say that guns are too difficult for the average person to use for defense.
One point I forgot to address about the above letter is Ms. Schmitt's statement that the " vast majority of law enforcement personnel is strongly against this legislation..." Wisconsin's CCW bill has (or at least had when I was there) the support of the Milwaukee Police Association, the Wisconsin chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police, and the Wisconsin chapter of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America. In 2006 the bill's authors also finally got the support from the Wisconsin State Troopers Association after they made a couple of minor amendments.
I think Ms. Schmitt just awoke from a coma.
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True, but the irony is in the turnabout. In the 1990's, the Brady Bunch argued that guns made it too easy to kill people. As the number of shall-issue states grew, they changed their talking points to say that guns are too difficult for the average person to use for defense.
One point I forgot to address about the above letter is Ms. Schmitt's statement that the " vast majority of law enforcement personnel is strongly against this legislation..." Wisconsin's CCW bill has (or at least had when I was there) the support of the Milwaukee Police Association, the Wisconsin chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police, and the Wisconsin chapter of the Law Enforcement Alliance of America. In 2006 the bill's authors also finally got the support from the Wisconsin State Troopers Association after they made a couple of minor amendments.
I think Ms. Schmitt just awoke from a coma.
On the latter point, all she needs to do is make things up or state what she imagines to be true. Facts just confuse things.
On the former point, I noticed something similar. Back when the argument was over possession of guns, I read a couple of articles that said most rapes occur outside the home, therefore having a gun will not help a rape victim. More recently, when the argument had shifted to carrying guns, an anti-gunner claimed that most rapes are committed in the home, so carry will not help.
But of course, the anti's are always contradicting themselves on the skill level required by guns. They have never wavered from the belief that violent people find guns easy to use, while peace-loving people find them almost useless (because the bad man will just take it away). They would have us believe that a man defending himself from a home invasion will have his gun used against him, while a man experiencing road rage will maintain a deadly control over his weapon.
But I'm sure you've heard all this before.
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Ms. Schmitt is still reading from the 1990's Brady Bunch talking points.
And so is our own damn governor :mad:
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So can someone answer my question. I've gone to several different WI carry sites, (including WGO [barf]), and can't find an answer anywhere.
Will Wisconsin be issuing non-resident permits ?
And if so how, and how much ?
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If they stick to the bill as written in 2005 and 2007, there was no provision for issuing non-resident permits. I just looked through the 2011 bill, and it appears to be the same as the previous bills.
You'd think the Republicans would take advantage of their numbers and insert a non-resident permit clause.
It's not too late to call legislators.
If nothing else, there's this paragraph:
Treats a permit, license, approval, or other authorization issued by another state in the same manner as a license issued under this bill if the individual who possesses the authorization submitted to a background check to determine if the individual is prohibited from possessing a firearm.
Since no mention of residency of the other issuing state is mentioned anywhere in the bill, I take that to mean that non-resident permits would be valid, so you could get an FL or UT non-resident permit to carry in WI.
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Yeah, with reciprocity why pay for yet another permit and give your info to a state not your own?
If you can't get one in your own state, why not just get a Utah or FL which already cover damn near every state and have the system down?
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Yeah, with reciprocity why pay for yet another permit and give your info to a state not your own?
If you can't get one in your own state, why not just get a Utah or FL which already cover damn near every state and have the system down?
True enough. Also, if the bill goes through as written with no training requirements, but did have a provision non-resident permits, most shall-issue states wouldn't recognize the WI permits because of the lack of training.
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Yeah, with reciprocity why pay for yet another permit and give your info to a state not your own?
If you can't get one in your own state, why not just get a Utah or FL which already cover damn near every state and have the system down?
Because I don't want to pay the ~$200 and a day+ to do the training and then get fingerprinted (electronically and only certain LE agencies will do and then they charge for it and give you the hairy eyeball for getting a UT or FL CCW permit, Welcome to the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Illinois.). Like I said I could send in a app, a check for $25, a copy of my Illinois FOID and get a permit good for five years.
*sigh*
Virginia'a or New Hampshire's is $100, I'll have to see whether their good for 4 or 5 years and go with the one that's the longest.
I do think that Wisconsin is missing out. Think of all the FIB's and Flatlanders that cross the Cheddar Curtain and would pay to be able to CCW. Another way for the State of Wisconsin to vac-u-suck more cash out of our wallets....
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I do think that Wisconsin is missing out. Think of all the FIB's and Flatlanders that cross the Cheddar Curtain and would pay to be able to CCW. Another way for the State of Wisconsin to vac-u-suck more cash out of our wallets....
Oh, absolutely. Wisconsin almost never misses a chance to grab any money from anyone the politicians can find. In this case, though, there's enough people afraid of what Wisconsin citizens will do when carrying. Imagine what some out of state people would do! They might shoot people just for fun when they're on vacation in Door County!
From January of 1990 through April 30, 2011, Florida issued 1,976,774 permits. (Interestingly, only 5,491 were ever revoked for crimes after licensure, of which 168 were revoked for any crimes involving a firearm). At $75 a pop plus $42 for the FBI fingerprint card, that's some pretty decent walking around money for the state legislature. Hell, that kind of money could almost pay for a trip for Michelle Obama and her friends.
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Think of all the FIB's and Flatlanders that cross the Cheddar Curtain and would pay to be able to CCW.
There's a company that specializes in helping people who live in areas like that.
http://www.uhaul.com/
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There's a company that specializes in helping people who live in areas like that.
http://www.uhaul.com/
Wisconsin is where FIB's go to vacation in the summer and shoot bambi in the fall. They also go there in the winter to ice fish, snowmobile and drink. Spring is about the only time we don't head north. Wisconsin is Illinois' (especially the Chicagoland area's) Playground.
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Wisconsin is where FIB's go to vacation drink in the summer and shoot bambi drink in the fall. They also go there in the winter to ice fish, snowmobile and drink. Spring is about the only time we don't head north. Wisconsin is Illinois' (especially the Chicagoland area's) Playground tavern.
Fixed it for you
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Wisconsin is where FIB's go to vacation drink in the summer and shoot bambi drink in the fall. They also go there in the winter to ice fish, snowmobile and drink. Spring is about the only time we don't head north. Wisconsin is Illinois' (especially the Chicagoland area's) Playground tavern.
Fixed it for you
Back when Wisconsin's drinking age was 18 and Illinois 21, even moreso. I was one of them....
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We'll still have to disarm at the IL border, but when WI finally passes CCW, it'll really be a nice addition to get some more security for my Yellow Margarine smuggling ring. =D
(No, really, this was a popular pastime in WI up until 1967...)
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(No, really, this was a popular pastime in WI up until 1967...)
I remember it clearly and remember even more clearly when my dad didn't make an "oleo run", and I then had to knead the dye packets into that gray goop that the WI stores were allowed to sell.
WI has always been a socialist paradise, hasn't it?
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I remember it clearly and remember even more clearly when my dad didn't make an "oleo run", and I then had to knead the dye packets into that gray goop that the WI stores were allowed to sell.
WI has always been a socialist paradise, hasn't it?
Well, then, "Each should shoot according to their abilities, and each should receive ammunition according to their needs." =D
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From the newspaper that keeps giving, I give you tonight's letter to the editor:
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CONCEALED CARRY
Law would take state back to Wild West
According to Will Steinhaus' May 12 letter to the editor, Wisconsinites need "constitutional carry." Avoiding school zones, not being able to carry in a vehicle and other "red tape" under Wisconsin's current open carry law is too "impractical."
Never mind that road rage would take on a whole new meaning, and one could legally be strapped on the sidewalk next to children playing at recess.
Steinhaus and those who agree with him demonstrate how far some are removed from reality. It is ridiculous to tie up the court systems with such nonsense when real problems loom, such as a diminishing public school system, high unemployment and skyrocketing tuition for higher education.
The future of Wisconsin, as Steinhaus and friends see it, will be uneducated and jobless so long as it is allowable to carry deadly weapons.
Some inner city Milwaukee neighborhoods with little education, high unemployment and a sizable percentage carrying firearms (though many times not legally) yield the highest murder rates in the state.
How will the rest of Wisconsin fare under similar circumstances? It is time to concentrate on issues that better society, not attempt to devolve back to the Wild West.
Brian Holmes
West Allis
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Is this guy even aware that there are forty-nine other states in the United States, much less forty-eight other states with some form of CCW? Couldn't the Journal Sentinel editors put a little disclaimer after his letter to indicate that they're publishing it as satire?
Wild West? Road rage? Boy, wait until this guy sees the first episodes of "Seinfeld" and hears about Bill Clinton, the governor of Arkansas. It looks like the 90's will be an interesting decade.
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This is the best part:
The future of Wisconsin, as Steinhaus and friends see it, will be uneducated and jobless so long as it is allowable to carry deadly weapons.
I don't know what it means, but it's funny. It's also funny that he's already forgotten his position from the first part of the letter, where he said that carrying deadly weapons was already legal in Wisconsin.
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It is ridiculous to tie up the court systems with such nonsense when real problems loom, such as a diminishing public school system, high unemployment and skyrocketing tuition for higher education.
What does this person think the courts do?
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Some inner city Milwaukee neighborhoods with little education, high unemployment and a sizable percentage carrying firearms (though many times not legally) yield the highest murder rates in the state.
Good timing. This happened right outside my workplace yeasterday: http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/121901049.html
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Good timing. This happened right outside my workplace yeasterday: http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/121901049.html
Yeah, no need for self defense in WI.
I once had a reporter call from a small, minority-focused newspaper. One of his first questions was, "why do we need to let people carry weapons in Wisconsin?" I told him that, despite assurances from the former governor that Wisconsin was a safe state, there were over 12,000 homicides, assaults, rapes and other violent crimes every year. His response was basically, "so what?", to which I said that if he can accept 12,000 violent crimes as a tolerable level of violence, then there was nothing for us to talk about.
I also love this line you quoted:
Some inner city Milwaukee neighborhoods with little education, high unemployment and a sizable percentage carrying firearms (though many times not legally) yield the highest murder rates in the state.
A "sizable percentage" carrying firearms, "though, many times not legally"? Buddy, nobody is carrying firearms legally in the inner city or anywhere else in the state unless he/she is wearing a badge. Those people carrying are criminals or, once in awhile, a law-abiding citizen trying to protect himself from criminals, a protection you want to remain illegal.
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one could legally be strapped on the sidewalk next to children playing at recess.
So ... ???
Funny thing was when one of my daughters asked why all daddys didn't carry a gun to protect their children? =)
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A "sizable percentage" carrying firearms, "though, many times not legally"? Buddy, nobody is carrying firearms legally in the inner city or anywhere else in the state unless he/she is wearing a badge. Those people carrying are criminals or, once in awhile, a law-abiding citizen trying to protect himself from criminals, a protection you want to remain illegal.
Dick,
I was just quoting a snippet from the letter. I totally agree with you, even if the 'potential victims' who live and work in this area don't.
I just quoted that portion to put an exclamation point on the fact that there are a lot of criminals running amongst the unarmed and very much naive liberal population.
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Dick,
I was just quoting a snippet from the letter. I totally agree with you, even if the 'potential victims' who live and work in this area don't.
I just quoted that portion to put an exclamation point on the fact that there are a lot of criminals running amongst the unarmed and very much naive liberal population.
Dick knows that. You're not uh... knowing he knew you knew you er... ???
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Yes, I didn't know that he knew that I knew that he knew.....
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What? What did I knew? ;)
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I don't know....FIRSt BASE!!!
Oh yeah, the reason I posted on this.... you think the letters to the editor are brain killing? watch this...if you dare.
It's safe for work, but it's definately nsfbc....not safe for brain cells....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TOmYwnfXKU&feature=share
The title alone should make your heads explode.
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Simple logic defies this.
If we gun owners truly were the bloodthirsty lot they say we are, none of them would be here to argue with us. =)
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Oh yeah, the reason I posted on this.... you think the letters to the editor are brain killing? watch this...if you dare. It's safe for work, but it's definately nsfbc....not safe for brain cells....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TOmYwnfXKU&feature=share
I'm glad I saw some of this guy's videos. That way, after he blows up his local GOP campaign headquarters, I can say I knew him when. Let us briefly ponder three of his interesting ideas.
1. If marijuana is legalized, all farmers will switch to the much more lucrative cannabis crop. No food will be grown.
2. Unless gun owners load their weapons with rubber or synthetic bullets, they are premeditated murderers. Synthetic bullets are best; they are like clay or chewing gum.
3. Most NRA members are former klansmen. (He does not supply figures on how large this would make the KKK.)
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Owww! My head!
That guy is so far out there that I'd bet Sarah Brady would disavow any connection with him.
Sadly, his very existence makes the case for the pro-abortion crowd.
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More deliciousness from Timothy Allen Campbell:
http://gotimothy.dyndns-free.com/
I will donate One Thousand Dollars to be used Towards Lawyer Fees to make sure the automobile manufacturers pay Ashlyn Schaffer one trillion dollars, or get their spinal cord cut as the Bible demands. It's their Choice. The automobile manufacturers knew that was not God's will to manufacture cars. The Amish told them that 50 years ago.
Well, at least he's consistent. He doesn't think anyone should have a car, either.
Oh, maybe not. It seems that his Constitution protects his right to defend himself by running over anyone with a gun, who is not in a police uniform.
http://www.examiner.com/la-in-los-angeles/timothy-allen-campbell-video
Many of his writings may be purchased here:
http://www.angelfire.com/oz/gotimothy/writing.htm
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^^^ The Bible demands cutting of the spinal cord? I must have missed that reference.
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^^^ The Bible demands cutting of the spinal cord? I must have missed that reference.
You haven't been cutting spinal cords? Dude. You've only got till Saturday, so you'd better get to cuttin', if you wanna make the rapture.
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I don't know....FIRSt BASE!!!
Oh yeah, the reason I posted on this.... you think the letters to the editor are brain killing? watch this...if you dare.
It's safe for work, but it's definately nsfbc....not safe for brain cells....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TOmYwnfXKU&feature=share
The title alone should make your heads explode.
This guy actually states that the reason he knows all gun owners are murderers is because he was once robbed, and afterwards he wanted to buy a gun to "hunt down" the robber. :facepalm:
Link to that timestamp (1:20) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TOmYwnfXKU#?t=1m20s
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This guy actually states that the reason he knows all gun owners are murderers is because he was once robbed, and afterwards he wanted to buy a gun to "hunt down" the robber. :facepalm:
Link to that timestamp (1:20) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TOmYwnfXKU#?t=1m20s
And then he says that all black people look the same to him.
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I suspect he's lonely. He really ought to look up "Rainbow Sprinkler Lady" and ask her out on a date, and they can share thoughts about HAARP and Chemtrails over some tater-skins at the local TGI Friday's, then go see a movie...
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I swear, reading the Journal Sentinel lately is more entertaining than going to a White Castle or George Webb at 3 am.
Today's offering from Milwaukee's esteemed daily:
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CONCEALED CARRY
Don't carry a gun; carry Mace instead
I am writing to express my opinion on the proposed concealed gun legislation based upon considerable personal experience.
While I reside in Wisconsin most of the year, I spend my summers in the mountain West. In all my meanderings in the mountains, I have encountered many dangerous wild animals - bears, mountain lions and moose.
Despite a number of close calls, I have never been worried about my safety because I always carry Mace with me. If pepper spray or Mace will repel the attack of an enraged grizzly bear, it will promptly immobilize a would-be assailant or rapist.
More important, it will not kill or injure anyone carrying it for "personal protection."
Carrying a concealed firearm - legal or illegal - is a dangerous proposition. Choose Mace in a gun's place. In the strongest terms available to me, I beseech you not to enact legislation permitting the carrying of concealed firearms.
Whether licensed or unlicensed, it is foolhardy at best, deadly at worst. There is, after all, a far better alternative to ensuring personal safety. Choose Mace in a gun's place.
Daniel O. Holland
Plover
**********
Well, at least he "beseeches", rather than being demanding. That's rather polite, don't you think? With that degree of charm, he probably doesn't need a gun to protect himself from bad guys when he can sweet talk them instead.
Too bad he doesn't tell us if he ever really used the Mace on a grizzly and, if so, how it worked. He's alive, so chances are he didn't use it. If he did, he's lucky to be alive after irritating a very large bear with a Cajun condiment.
And this: Choose Mace in a gun's place. I was waiting for the next sentence to read, "Burma Shave".
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ROTFL! :laugh:
If pepper spray or Mace will repel the attack of an enraged grizzly bear, it will promptly immobilize a would-be assailant or rapist.
That is a mighty big IF. I beseech us all to have such touching and child-like faith that every consumer product lives up to its marketing.
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Daniel O. Holland
Plover
Ah yes, the mean streets of Plover. About the only thing up there that might cause you harm is if you accidentally step in front of a potato truck. =D
As if I'm going to take self protection advice from Dr Dolittle ;/
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There's more today, folks. I think that as the bill gets closer to being passed, the opponents get even stranger.
A radical bill
Should we pass a concealed-carry law with no restrictions and conditions? I agree that this is a radical irresponsible bill. How can our new governor of five months propose legislation in yet another area that was never mentioned in his campaign? What is happening to dismantle the laws of this previously progressive state? I am appalled and outraged.
Kathleen Gruenewald
Shorewood
Um, Kathleen, Governor Walker did say in his campaign that he would sign any CCW bill that hit his desk. Also, governors do not traditionally propose legislation, they sign or veto it. In this case, the bill was proposed and authored by a Republican member of the assembly. Oh, and God forbid that the laws of "this previously progressive state" should be dismantled. I'm sure there are more just like you who preferred having innocent people maimed or killed with no legal means of defense. How progressive.
***
Permit, training needed
I am very concerned about this approach to carrying weapons. I have never owned a gun, do not wish to, nor do I wish to limit gun ownership for responsible citizens.
It concerns me that the person next to me - who I usually do not know well - could have a firearm on his or her body in a state where it could accidentally discharge, and I had absolutely no idea that this person is armed.
I have a small retail shop. The thought that anyone entering the 900-square-foot area with a weapon could wreak havoc on the entire shop by simply stumbling is more than I care to think a lot about.
I certainly hope that cooler heads prevail and some type of permit and training are required for any concealed-carry legislation.
Sara von Tresckow
Fond du Lac
Sara, it's perfectly obvious by your second paragraph that you know nothing about guns, meaning your first paragraph was unnecessary. Guns don't just "accidentally discharge." Even if they did, you make it sound as thought it would be okay if one accidentally discharged, so long as you knew the person was armed. Would it make you feel better if people came into your shop and said, "hey, Sara, I'm armed today, so make sure you're clear in case my gun just goes off"?
You apparently don't understand physics too well, either. A gun--even a S&W .50 Magnum--isn't going to "wreak havoc" in a 900 square foot shop. It's not a rocket propelled grenade or a stick of C4.
Go back to watching "American Idol", and stop trying to make sense with your writing. It doesn't suit you.
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<lukewarm "loyal opposition">
Letters to the editor are generally subject to "editing for clarity and brevity."
I have had several letters so mangled that my point came out almost backwards.
The "stupidity" might have been generated on an editor's desk.
</lukewarm "loyal opposition">
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Letters to the editor are generally subject to "editing for clarity and brevity."
I have had several letters so mangled that my point came out almost backwards.
The "stupidity" might have been generated on an editor's desk.
The Journal Sentinel generally prints whatever crazy screed people can come up with.
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The Journal Sentinel generally prints whatever crazy screed people can come up with.
Ahhh, but you don't get to see that there screed before it got crazy on the editor's desk.
Aaaaand, guess what? They don't print letters objecting to the screed-mangling.
("Never start an argument with someone who buys ink by the gallon." --H. L. Mencken?)
Terry, 230RN
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Ahhh, but you don't get to see that there screed before it got crazy on the editor's desk.
The people who edit the letters to the editor at the Journal Sentinel are one step above interns. Nobody seems to even supervise what they do.
I had one letter extensively "edited", and called the young lady who did it. She said she was just editing for punctation and grammar. I called bull, and told her she'd just changed the entire meaning of my letter.
Doesn't matter, at least not years back, as they were the only game in town.
Want to have some fun? Go to Google's newspaper archives here (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=wZJMF1LD7PcC) and look at newspapers after January 17, 1989 (the Stockton shooting). It seems like every two or three days there was an article or editorial about banning guns or restricting guns or doing something to gun owners. It was just a daily routine, something we don't see today. The amazing thing is that the Sentinel was considered "conservative" compared to the Journal.
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Ahhh, but you don't get to see that there screed before it got crazy on the editor's desk.
What if the editors are actually toning down the crazy?
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What if the editors are actually toning down the crazy?
Possible.
That probably depends on whether you and the paper are on the same side of the fence.
Actually, what Monkeyleg said. I've had that happen --an almost complete reversal of intent. Call the same letter to the editor extension at the paper and it was like 50-50 it was the same person working that desk from monh to month, even week to week --especially in summertime.
"Never argue with anyone who buys ink by the gallon" is a favorite quote of mine.*
I kinda gave up on letters to the editor except for the on-line comment sections of the newspapers when that got to be "the thing." I even pretty much gave up on that, too, when I started to recognize that printed newspapers were on their way out anyhow, and figured my efforts were better directed elsewhere.
Terry, 230RN
(*It has been attributed to Casey Stengel, Tommy LaSorda, Mark Twain, H. L. Mencken, Yogi Berra, and many other Great Wits. So what the hell, you might as well attribute it to me, another Great Wit.)
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So;
1) What are the status of the two bills ?
and
2) What is taking so long ?
I thought this was a slam dunk?
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The last I read was that the constitutional carry bill had gone through committee and is going to come up for a vote (when?), but there's been amendments by both Republicans and Democrats to insert training requirements and permit provisions into the bill. It's still not acceptable to the liberals, though.
Governor Walker seemed to be backing away from the constitutional carry bill, saying he thought there should be training required, but didn't go so far as to say he'd veto it.
As far as I know, the shall-issue bill hasn't gone through committee yet. (AJ, do you know?).
The last three times that the bills went to the floor, they did so at the end of the year. The first six months of session are usually tied up with the budget.
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Me? I don't know what the hell is going on. :laugh:
I think we've got three bills running around. A Senate shall-issue and a Senate permit-less/constitutional bill, and an Assembly shall-issue bill. One's gotten through the Senate Judiciary committee.
I think they plan on getting this all done by the end of June I thought to beat any Republican recalls that might cost them the Senate. A long shot, but better safe than sorry.
Honestly, I'm so tired of it, anything demonstrably better than the PPA (Personal Protection Act) CCW bills vetoed by Doyle will make me very happy at this point.
It's all going kind of crazy. Milwaukee conservative talk-radio pundits are all screaming and ranting that they want training and permits, I think it's because they're worried that Constitutional Carry bills or bills without training might cost the GOP the state Senate. The WI NRA guy LaSorte is fuming mad about what Belling, Sykes etc. have been saying over the air in Milwaukee.
Gov. Walker is waffling a bit, stating publicly he thinks that any CCW bill should have permits. However, he has not retracted his promise to sign whatever CCW bill reaches his desk.
What I think has happened that the initial strategy of proposing permit-less/Constitutional carry as the stick, with a very clean shall-issue CCW bill as the carrot has backfired a bit. RINO's and moderates who initially were OK with this plan were shocked to find out a fair number of people actually are SERIOUS about Constitutional Carry, including the NRA.
My gut feeling is right now that we'll wind up with Indiana style shall-issue. Permits that are relatively cheap/long-lasting, background check, but no training requirement.
Honestly, what I'd have liked to see was a well written and sever-able bill with three tiers.
1. Constitutional AZ/AK carry.
2. Optional Shall-Issue CCW's for WI residents to get more leniency with GFSZ's.
3. Optional Shall-Issue CCW's with a training endorsement for max reciprocity across the U.S.
This way, tiers one or one and two could be lopped off if it was looking like they were going to prevent passage.
Other factors I'd have liked.
- No duty to inform LEO's.
- Bars restaurants OK for carry. Just can't be drinking/drunk. (perhaps a .08 standard like DUI/OWI)
- Permit holders can skip the two day WI handgun wait.
- Strict Sign requirements. Size, color, font, wording. And then they only have trespass authority. You must have a sign AND be told/asked to leave.
- Secure zones must have lockers for CCW'ers.
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No chance of a Non-resident permit, then .... =| [/kicks rocks]
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No chance of a Non-resident permit, then .... =| [/kicks rocks]
No idea... Maybe. Reciprocity, the early drafts of these bills had nothing about these issues in them. Part of which made me think they weren't serious.
Then I heard that the strategy was to pass ALL these bills. Actually producing something like the three-tiered system I had outlined above. So maybe reciprocity and out of state non-resident permits were in some other bill. Or the plan is to merge them all in a conference session.
All I really know is that it's crazy right now, the Constitutional Carry people are pissed off at anything less than 100% support, and that it still looks like whatever stitched together Frankenstein bill comes out of the amendment/conference/merger process will probably still be pretty good. At least, no worse than the PPA's of previous years that would have all made us very happy back then.
Some are griping that there's a chance nothing would pass, because of everyone supporting the "other" bill, leaving none with a clear majority of support, however I find it unlikely. While there's lots of hard-liner talk about the bills amongst the public in various gun forums, none of the legislators seem to be a hard liner over their particular bills yet.
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While there's lots of hard-liner talk about the bills amongst the public in various gun forums, none of the legislators seem to be a hard liner over their particular bills yet.
Mine are- contacted them both. Both Sponsored Constitutional Carry. Of course not everyone is going to have a Glen Grothman in their district. :cool:
It does seem that the waters are pretty muddied and noone seems to know what's going to happen.
I heard Mark Belling's rant about Constitutional Carry, and I was quite disappointed with him. His stance was that CC was going to screw up elections because of a few people who want to 'have a right to carry hand grenades into churches and schools'- what a nitwit. :mad:
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Mine are- contacted them both. Both Sponsored Constitutional Carry. Of course not everyone is going to have a Glen Grothman in their district. :cool:
It does seem that the waters are pretty muddied and noone seems to know what's going to happen.
I heard Mark Belling's rant about Constitutional Carry, and I was quite disappointed with him. His stance was that CC was going to screw up elections because of a few people who want to 'have a right to carry hand grenades into churches and schools'- what a nitwit. :mad:
Yes, I know. However, what I mean is that I've heard nothing stating that Glenn or the other sponsors would refuse to vote for the alternate shall-issue bill should the Constitutional one appear DOA etc.
What Belling said was disappointing, and I don't agree with it. Although, as a conservative policy wonk who's concerned about the whole spectrum of issues, I can understand his ire. If I legitimately believed that hardlining on Constitutional carry would cost us some recall elections, and then subsequently screw up all the tax and budget reforms WI so desperately needs, I'd be worried/pissed off over it too.
While I think Belling and the other talk show hosts who have been blasting anyone who wants more than a shall-issue bill with training are wrong, I do have sympathy for the idea that in the larger picture WI has to be a state worth living in to exercise concealed carry.
Having the RKBA feather in our cap and going from no-carry to Constitutional Carry would be great, but it would be a rather Pyhrric victory if it also meant it halted all the other conservative reforms in this state, and we started going down the path of IL or MI. :-X
Honestly, it SHOULD be easy enough to explain that VT, AK, and AZ (and MT... sorta) have this with no problems, and that IN has shall-issue without training too. Nor should you tailor our rights or pending legislation just to deny the libtard MSM talking points, because they're not interested in giving any conservative a fair shake anyway.
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What Belling said was disappointing, and I don't agree with it. Although, as a conservative policy wonk who's concerned about the whole spectrum of issues, I can understand his ire. If I legitimately believed that hardlining on Constitutional carry would cost us some recall elections, and then subsequently screw up all the tax and budget reforms WI so desperately needs, I'd be worried/pissed off over it too.
While I think Belling and the other talk show hosts who have been blasting anyone who wants more than a shall-issue bill with training are wrong, I do have sympathy for the idea that in the larger picture WI has to be a state worth living in to exercise concealed carry.
I get that.
Unfortunately (most of the times fortunately) he has a large audience and quite a bit of influence. Having him spout off some garbage that looks like it was plagiarized from the Shepard Express doesn't look good for any of us.
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Belling is a pragmatist, not an ideologue. Constitutional carry could present political problems at a time when Republicans are going to need all they can get to carry WI. The "union-busting" legislation has already hurt them.
No idea... Maybe. Reciprocity, the early drafts of these bills had nothing about these issues in them. Part of which made me think they weren't serious.
The 2001, 2003 and 2005 bills had instant reciprocity in them. I just glanced through this year's bill and didn't see it, but neither did I see anything prohibiting licensees from other states from carrying. I suppose that wouldn't work, though.
I find it fascinating that Darren LaSorte is back in WI for this. He was assigned elsewhere after the 2005 bill, and Austin Jordan took over. Darren (IMO) is the more experienced lobbyist. I wonder if they brought him back because this time it's for real, versus the past four years, which were not?
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I get that.
Unfortunately (most of the times fortunately) he has a large audience and quite a bit of influence. Having him spout off some garbage that looks like it was plagiarized from the Shepard Express doesn't look good for any of us.
Marc Belling? The guy with the annoying voice? Why would anybody listen to him? ???
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Marc Belling? The guy with the annoying voice? Why would anybody listen to him?
It's Mark Belling, but that's besides the point. He's filled in for Rush Limbaugh often. He's also one of the best B-level talk radio hosts in the business. I've listened to Laura Ingram, J. Gordon Liddy, Hugh Hewitt, and a long list of other well-known hosts, and Belling is much better at keeping an audience engaged.
He may not have Limbaugh's sonorous voice, but he has a real talent for keeping listeners interested. Some of the better-known hosts I've listened to put me to sleep.
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He may not have Limbaugh's sonorous voice, but he has a real talent for keeping listeners interested. Some of the better-known hosts I've listened to put me to sleep.
Is he capable of refraining from talking about himself more than the topic at hand unlike many of the hosts on AM radio?
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Mark Belling is far from perfect, and yes, I can definitely see how some (many?) could find him incredibly annoying. :laugh:
However, he's been as instrumental in holding back liberalism in Wisconsin, as Rush Limbaugh has been on the national front.
Here's the latest on what seems to be settling out over the various CCW bills.
1. permit required
2. training required
3. open carry protected
4. transport rules changed to allow carrying in cars
5. no public database
6. uses florida model of training/licensing
7. 5 year renewal period.
8. military, hunters safety participants, law enforcement, former law enforcement, and anyone who has already received licensed instruction will be exempt from training requirement
9. no felony for carrying w/o permit
10. no fingerprinting for permit
11. training classes will be one day, and not require live-fire range (meaning sim-training will suffice)-- cost expected to be around $50 for training
12. 1000 ft school zone will be lifted for permit holders
13. no changes to long gun rules
This is from Vicki McKenna, a conservative (and extremely pro-gun) talkshow host out of the even more hostile market of Madison, interviewing Darren LaSorte the lead NRA lobbyist on the ground here in WI.
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J. G. Gordon Liddy,
FTFY
His full name is George Gordon Battle Liddy. Or Uncle George for short. ;)
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Sorry about that, Scout26. I know it's "G", but I typed "J".
As for the way the bill is shaking out in AJ's post, the Journal Sentinel is lobbying heavily to have permit holders names part of the public record, and every elected and appointed official in Milwaukee is lobbying to have carrying without a permit made a felony.
I'll bet $10 (as much as I'd ever bet with real money) that any reciprocity gets stripped from the bill.
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It's Mark Belling, but that's besides the point. He's filled in for Rush Limbaugh often.
Far too often. I have this crazy idea that people without sonorous voices should stay the heck off the radio.
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Back to the OT. Here's another doozie from today's Journal Sentinel. Free moccasins to the person who can find the most cliches, outdated arguments, and specious logic.
*******
Making everyone armed, dangerous
First, the much-misused Second Amendment: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. So once we are all walking around with cute little pistols in purse or pocket, we will be members of this militia?
Well, for starters, it would not be well-regulated, since no one would be checked, licensed or trained. We'd all be freelance shoot-'em-uppers. It would be quite the opposite of security; bring 17 items to the 15-only checkout line and the irate citizen behind you with 14 could drill you and your watermelon.
Free? Well, yes. Every one of us would be free to, at the very least, scare each other to death.
Remember the old notion that the freedom of my fist stops at the tip of your nose? If my fist has a gun in it, your nose can be a whole lot farther away.
We should be working to get weapons off the streets - and out of stores and restaurants and post offices - rather than making each one of us armed and dangerous.
Patricia Nakamura
Muskego
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Back to the OT. Here's another doozie from today's Journal Sentinel. Free moccasins to the person who can find the most cliches, outdated arguments, and specious logic.
Two Hundred One. The stupid was so concentrated I just counted the total words used, including their name. When do I get my moccasins?
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That person. Does she understand basic English grammar?
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I don't even worry about it.
Every state that's passed CCW in the past 20 years has gone through the same thing.
After a year or two of people going through their daily lives of not seeing the CCW'ers guns, everything returns to normal.
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I don't even worry about it.
Every state that's passed CCW in the past 20 years has gone through the same thing.
After a year or two of people going through their daily lives of not seeing the CCW'ers guns, everything returns to normal.
Sure, AJ. Maybe she'll get accustomed to people carrying. But she probably votes. And she can reproduce.
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Sure, AJ. Maybe she'll get accustomed to people carrying. But she probably votes. And she can reproduce.
I wouldn't be tto concerned about what a minority of loons think- you aren't going to convince them otherwise no matter how hard you try.
Speaking of which...
The "union-busting" legislation has already hurt them.
I don't think the union-busting has hurt the conservatives cause. Those who are against it generally aren't are rarely republican voters anyhow. The WiSC election was supposd to be the left's 'referendum' on Walker's policies... despite all of the childishness in the Kloppenburg/union/teacher/red diaper baby camp, Prosser still won.
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Yes, and the electoral math does not look bad on the recall elections either.
I suspect all will keep their seats. Or if one loses his, one of the democrats up for recall will lose theirs over fleeing to bust the quorum.
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Or if one loses his, one of the democrats up for recall will lose theirs over fleeing to bust the quorum.
If one does, I hope its Luther Olsen.
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If one does, I hope its Luther Olsen.
+1
If there was a word stronger the RINO to describe him I would use it. :mad:
Well, for starters, it would not be well-regulated, since no one would be checked, licensed or trained. We'd all be freelance shoot-'em-uppers. It would be quite the opposite of security; bring 17 items to the 15-only checkout line and the irate citizen behind you with 14 could drill you and your watermelon.
I read that and thought "race baiting". Anyone else?
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+1
If there was a word stronger the RINO to describe him I would use it. :mad:
I read that and thought "race baiting". Anyone else?
Dunno. Although as Monkeyleg can attest, the inner-city minority constituency does not support CCW much at all. Despite the fact they may need it the most, they feel it's like having "hunting licenses for their kids", and accept as much as 1/3rd of their young male population will be some sort of felon, and would rather white folk not be able to shoot them.
The more pragmatic ones who do feel that racial solidarity ends at felonious assault, well, they just keep quiet about it.
More good news, unless it gets amended away, it looks as if bar-carry/restaurant with a liquor license-carry will be good to go. If you're aware of how hard other supposedly "pro gun" states have fought for this, (and often failed) and who've had CCW for decades, you know what a big deal that is.
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http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/06/dems-say-concealed-carry-amendment-full.html (http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/06/dems-say-concealed-carry-amendment-full.html)
Sen. Bob Jauch, D-Poplar, wondered why the onus is being put on those who don't want weapons in their home or business to make that clear. He suggested it would be better to reverse the bill so those who want to allow guns should post signs stating guns are welcome.
:facepalm:
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StopTheGrays, you need to understand Bob Jauch. One, he's a liberal's liberal. Two, he's a snob. Three, he's an *expletive deleted*.
In 2002, when the Democrat senate majority leader used some questionable parliamentary tricks to keep the bill from coming to the floor for vote, the crowd in the gallery went nuts. That's not allowed, as spectators are supposed to keep quiet. It's not allowed for legislators to speak to the gallery, but that didn't stop Jauch from telling us to stop behaving like children.
Here's an example of Bob Jauch, representative of the working man. Other legislators drive to Madison from their districts, many of them hundreds of miles from their districts. Jauch drives a short distance to Minnesota, and takes a commercial plane to Madison. His per diem expenses are the highest of any legislator. But it's okay, you see, because he's doing it for the people.
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The JFC has adopted the concealed carry bill with an amendment to include licensing and training requirements on a 12-4 vote, with the four Dems on the committee voting no.
http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/06/concealed-carry-passes-jfc-on-party.html (http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/06/concealed-carry-passes-jfc-on-party.html)
They adjourned after that.
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Sad to see Constitutional Carry die, but as is right now, this is as simple and clean a kick-ass shall-issue bill as you're going to get anywhere. =D
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-13Bills/2011_06_09_SB93_LC.pdf
$50 for five years. Renewals are cheaper.
Training required, but NRA safety course, hunters safety from any state, DD214 military cert CCW from another state with a training req. will all do just fine.
Bar and restaurant carry as long as you're not drinking.
No "newspaper database" (Choke on it you MSM slime! =D )
Employers can't ban parking lot storage of CCW. (WOW!)
Plus it has some extra car-carry protection, and anti-harassment language in there for the OC'ers too. Not an OC'er myself, but it gives me the warm fuzzies to see them GET something out of this.
The only big downside I see right now is that minimum size for no-carry signs are 5x7" and have vague or no wording and color requirements. So expect to see WAVE/Brady/VPC spam-faxing no-carry signs everywhere. Good news is it's every entrance required. So if a mall or something posts, and you know they forgot to put a sign on one of the doors, just say you went in that one... =D
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And if you fail at concealing and the business spots it what do they do? Just ask you to leave? Or is it an arrestable/chargeable offense?
Also, is it obvious if an NRA basic (pistol) class suffices, even if you took it last summer, before the bill?
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And if you fail at concealing and the business spots it what do they do? Just ask you to leave? Or is it an arrestable/chargeable offense?
Also, is it obvious if an NRA basic (pistol) class suffices, even if you took it last summer, before the bill?
It's now it's own special violation, unlike previous versions which would have just been an extension of trespass law. It's a civil forfeiture. (Weaksauce, on purpose.. Thanks Republicans. =D )
Don't quote me on it, but considering how they're going to accept Hunters Safety from any time, any state, DD214's of military service from whenever, I'm thinking an NRA basic class from a year previous would very likely suffice.
I know the hardliners are upset over Constitutional carry being abandoned (for now..) but they've REALLY bent over backwards to make this as cheap and easy as possible. =)
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I just hope everything you've described stays intact, AJ. You know how we were screwed before.
I'd sure like the reciprocity for out-of-state licensees to stay. The restaurant and tavern carry, too, as my relatives always want to go out to eat for the occasions we're there.
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Fitzgerald was on Jay Weber's morning talk-show discussing it. He seems to feel this is largely the form the bill will take.
And I think everyone was so cowed by the Constitutional Carry alternative, they're not going to make lots of noise of poison amendments. So intentional or not, the Hammer & Anvil tactic of putting Constitutional Carry out there as a sacrificial lamb worked. I think it might be on Walker's desk by next week.
I can hardly wait to start shooting people over traffic disputes! :laugh:
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I can hardly wait to start shooting people over traffic disputes!
It would be more fun to get stinking drunk at an Olive Garden (while wearing camouflage, of course, and carrying a Desert Eagle), blow away the waitress because there was a fly in your soup, fire off some warning shots at a Little League game, and then go shoot the Point Beach nuclear reactor and cause it to melt down.
I mean, if you're going to pander to the anti's fears, try to get them all in.
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It would be more fun to get stinking drunk at an Olive Garden (while wearing camouflage, of course, and carrying a Desert Eagle), blow away the waitress because there was a fly in your soup, fire off some warning shots at a Little League game, and then go shoot the Point Beach nuclear reactor and cause it to melt down.
I mean, if you're going to pander to the anti's fears, try to get them all in.
Who said anything about warning shots? That little bastard playing short stop keeps throwing my paper in the flower beds. Also don't forget to use some airliners for skeet shooting on the way to the NPP.
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FWIW, I wrote my state senator Leah Vukmir, a pretty solid conservative, requesting the following.
- That the signage rules be amended to require posting signs be something larger than 8.5x11" and in "safety orange" to prevent "spam" faxing and "fear mongering" by the various anti-orgs. And that having a standard of 12x12" in orange, with specific verbiate would alleviate confusion on the part of business owners, carriers, and LEO's as to what constitutes an "official sign". Possibly even saving time in the courts. [cough]andtodiscouragebusinessesfrompostingbyrequiringbiggerugliersigns...[/cough]
- That the listed .gov secure locations that are prohibited from CCW be outfitted with lockers or secure storage for carriers. (I acknowledged that the car-storage provisions mollify this somewhat. But I pointed out it might make large urban municipal lots crime magnets knowing people will have left firearms in their cars...)
- To take a stab at mandating carry be allowed in the UW system campuses, that crime reports of robberies and assaults on students, especially the most urban campuses, UW Madision and UW Milwaukee were quite common.
I further pointed out that she needs to be aware that bar/restaraunt carry, and the employer/car exemption were HUGELY important, that other pro-gun/conservative states have fought over these issues for years, and need to be protected in this bill if at all possible.
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So does the bill permit licensed carry in the 1,000 foot GFSZ?
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So does the bill permit licensed carry in the 1,000 foot GFSZ?
As long as you're passing through the zone, or you live or work within the zone.
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As long as you're passing through the zone, or you live or work within the zone.
So, a teacher?
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No, not teachers, or anyone who works at the school (unless they're passing through the zone). If a business or other workplace is within the 1000 yards, the person can carry there. Carry in schools is not allowed.
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No, not teachers, or anyone who works at the school (unless they're passing through the zone). If a business or other workplace is within the 1000 yards, the person can carry there. Carry in schools is not allowed.
Oh. Teachers are unpersons then. Carry on.
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Okay. I was trying to read the pdf, but I'm not really conversant with the GFSZ law anyway so I couldn't clearly tell. I live within 1,000 feet of an elementary school, and have to basically pass right by the school grounds to get out of my subdivision and go anywhere in Milwaukee or the suburbs.
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Okay. I was trying to read the pdf, but I'm not really conversant with the GFSZ law anyway so I couldn't clearly tell. I live within 1,000 feet of an elementary school, and have to basically pass right by the school grounds to get out of my subdivision and go anywhere in Milwaukee or the suburbs.
Yes, you were always okay travelling or transporting, or possessing in your home. And now once you have a permit, you can carry, right up to the sidewalk of the school, but not one step beyond.
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For some reason I was under the impression that 1,000 ft. GFSZ meant that it had to be unloaded and securely stored away when traveling or transporting through the zone.
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For some reason I was under the impression that 1,000 ft. GFSZ meant that it had to be unloaded and securely stored away when traveling or transporting through the zone.
Some of the anti-gun legislators years back tried to insert very strict language into the bill that would have required what you describe. However, it was pointed out to them that there are plenty of schools near the interstate, and it would be a mess to have cars pulling over so their drivers could disarm if and when they knew they were approaching a school zone. ;/
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That's a solid shall-issue law.
If Con. Carry is truly a non-starter this is really good.
Expanding reciprocity is the quiet cousin to the big leaps we've been making on the carry front.
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For some reason I was under the impression that 1,000 ft. GFSZ meant that it had to be unloaded and securely stored away when traveling or transporting through the zone.
Yes, but there's some sort of verbiage that provides an exception if licensed by your state to carry.
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People seem pretty confident about this... Fletcher's already has started a sign-up list for training classes.
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People seem pretty confident about this... Fletcher's already has started a sign-up list for training classes.
That's understandable...this time. Back in 2006 people were so confident that there were lots of people going through the process to become NRA instructors for concealed carry. There was a lot of work to do, and they were getting ahead of themselves. In hindsight, it's obvious that it was already ordained that Van Akkeren and Steinbrink would flip on the veto override, but at the time I was really pissed that people who previously could be counted on to help were busy getting certified.
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We have to wait on the final bill, but this online gun-safety class from Maryland (I think it's required for a handgun purchase permit there?) may meet the WI requirements.
I don't advocate wholesale shirking of the training requirements. However, this might be just the thing if you're just a long time gun owner/gun user who's worked/shot in stringent gun-safety environments like USPSA/IDPA, been a range master etc. but you've done all this without ever getting any of the specific paperwork WI's permit will require.
http://www.mdgunsafety.com/
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In NYS you can carry on school grounds if you are picking up or dropping off students. Also anyone who has written permission from school administrators can be exempted entirely.
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It's been a good day for Wisconsin politics.
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It's been a good day for Wisconsin politics.
Congrats on the bipartisan CCW vote!
I read an article in the Stamford example that had one Dem. legislator put it well.
Holperin, from Conover, said Wisconsin ranks 25th in the nation in violent crimes.
"So will this bill make the state any safer? Probably not. Will it make the state more dangerous? Probably not," he said. "But we just need to get on with the business of conforming with the other 48 states, conforming with the wishes of the voters and complying with our Constitution."
Every part of that is 100% unchallengeably true (no utterly unnecessary claims of positive effects) and is the right attitude for a legislator to have.
No harm anywhere else? Passes the logic test? Constitutional? Go with the will of voters and move on.
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- That the signage rules be amended to require posting signs be something larger than 8.5x11" and in "safety orange" to prevent "spam" faxing and "fear mongering" by the various anti-orgs. And that having a standard of 12x12" in orange, with specific verbiate would alleviate confusion on the part of business owners, carriers, and LEO's as to what constitutes an "official sign". Possibly even saving time in the courts. [cough]andtodiscouragebusinessesfrompostingbyrequiringbiggerugliersigns...[/cough]
IIRC, at least one state requires 9x12" with black gun and lettering and red circle-slash just so they can't be on 8.5x11" paper or run off by the thousands on a B&W copier. 11x14 color copying is a bit too pricey for most of the GFW activists to make several hundred and paste them everywhere.
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IIRC, at least one state requires 9x12" with black gun and lettering and red circle-slash just so they can't be on 8.5x11" paper or run off by the thousands on a B&W copier. 11x14 color copying is a bit too pricey for most of the GFW activists to make several hundred and paste them everywhere.
On one of the bills in a past year, the anti's managed to get 8 1/2" x 11" paper signage into the bill so they could fax signs to businesses.
I have yet to see a "no guns" sign on any building here except government, law enforcement, jails and post offices. I'd bet that most business owners don't care about CCW, or they don't know about it. It's been years since AL's law was implemented, probably before most of these people were born.
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Well, only two amendments passed with SB93 last night.
1. Seems to be a legal jargon clarification, not important.
2. Shooting competitions were removed as a form of "training". (shrug... I'd have liked to see "training" described as broadly as possible, but not a biggie.)
What I wonder about is Lena Taylor's sudden 180 on the issue. She was practically spouting NRA talking points "We don't have to fear the machine, but possibly who is holding it..." etc.
Obviously she knew the math, that it would pass, but I'm still wondering what her angle is/was.
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What I wonder about is Lena Taylor's sudden 180 on the issue. She was practically spouting NRA talking points "We don't have to fear the machine, but possibly who is holding it..." etc.
Obviously she knew the math, that it would pass, but I'm still wondering what her angle is/was.
I'm going to send her an 'attagirl' email today anyway. :laugh:
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My guess is some well heeled people in her district wanted CCW, and told her so, and since it was going to pass anyway, she voted in favor.
She also kind of had a spin of.. "So many of my district's residents are already carrying concealed weapons." Which seemed to have double implications about crime, and about otherwise innocent downtrodden minorities who could now possibly defend themselves, and not have to fear the po-po etc...
My only real gripe is that nobody touched the signage issue. The signs are too small, with no color requirements. Fax machines are probably already smoking as we speak. :P
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The Gun free school zone thing has me wondering though.....
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Lena Taylor is an absolute mystery. She has the whole north side, and Wauwatosa. I can't imagine that there's enough pro-CCW people in Wauwatosa to offset flack she'd get from the north side.
Could it be that she's angling for a higher office (remember Senator Gary George), and needs the NRA's support? Otherwise it makes no sense from any way I look at it.
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Lena Taylor is an absolute mystery. She has the whole north side, and Wauwatosa. I can't imagine that there's enough pro-CCW people in Wauwatosa to offset flack she'd get from the north side.
Could it be that she's angling for a higher office (remember Senator Gary George), and needs the NRA's support? Otherwise it makes no sense from any way I look at it.
If it was not a voice vote she probably hit the wrong button and is now covering up her mistake.
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It was a voice vote, so she's on record.
Once again, politics makes for strange bedfellows. She has plans to run for a higher office (couldn't find out what), and she struck a deal with the NRA: she would vote for the bill (which would pass with or without her vote), and they won't attack her (too hard) when she runs for the mysterious higher office.
There's no noble motivations in Milwaukee politics. It's just down and dirty Chicago-style dealings.
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I found out a bit more. The bill will be passed in the assembly, perhaps next week. The Republican leadership wanted to wait until the end of the year, but the NRA insisted on June, as they didn't want to risk the recall elections. So, Walker should be signing the bill in June or July.
The NRA is also working with the Milwaukee police and other law enforcement agencies to pass a bill that would add additional penalties for convicted felons caught carrying concealed weapons, or for those with convictions for crimes of violence. Carrying concealed without a permit will not be a felony if you have no record. It will stay the same, a Class C misdemeanor. This is pretty much duplication of federal law, but it lets the Milwaukee police chief and mayor claim some kind of victory, even if it is symbolic.
As for Bob Jauch voting for the bill, nobody seems to understand that.
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I thought I heard Jerry Bott say on WISN 1130 that "Milwaukee County was going to try something to restrict CCW" however, I finished out the show, and he never said more about it.
Anyone with any scoop on that?
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Yes, but there's some sort of verbiage that provides an exception if licensed by your state to carry.
Assuming you're talking about the federal GFSZ that only applies if you are licensed to carry by your state while IN your state.
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Assuming you're talking about the federal GFSZ that only applies if you are licensed to carry by your state while IN your state.
Yes, that's what I meant.
Also, SB93 is now on the Assembly calendar for next Tuesday. Assuming smooth sailing, CCW should go into effect Nov 1.
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...CCW should go into effect Nov 1.
Great. Maybe I'll be able to carry legally when I come back for Christmas.
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Great. Maybe I'll be able to carry legally when I come back for Christmas.
Yeah, just in time for every business to post out of knee-jerk fear, and LEO's to be in complete "I don't know what the **** is going on"-mode that states that get CCW go though for the first year or so... :laugh:
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Yes, that's what I meant.
Also, SB93 is now on the Assembly calendar for next Tuesday. Assuming smooth sailing, CCW should go into effect Nov 1.
Is that when the permitting process would start? Apply Nov 1 and wait 30-60 days or if you are a WI resident with a non-resident CCW from another state could you carry in WI then (Nov 1)?
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...and LEO's to be in complete "I don't know what the **** is going on"-mode that states that get CCW go though for the first year or so...
That's ok. My retirement fund could use a boost.
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Is that when the permitting process would start? Apply Nov 1 and wait 30-60 days or if you are a WI resident with a non-resident CCW from another state could you carry in WI then (Nov 1)?
That's what I hear some WI people griping about, that out of staters will be able to carry before they get their permits back in the mail... =)
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Then they should have gotten CCW passed and signed earlier. :P
It will be nice to have one of the two black "rights denied" turn reciprocal red on the USA Carry map.
This will make my AK CHL good in 40 states and in 2 of the remaining I can get a non-res.
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WI Assembly is taking up CCW today. They are expected to pass the version that passed the Senate earlier.
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http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession/assembly/index.htm
Watch it here. (nothing going on as of 11:32, retired for party caucuses)
Should be an entertaining slew of nonsensical Democrat amendments to be slapped down, then passage. With a little luck, someone from "our side" might stick a "big ugly colored sign" (safety orange, bigger than 8.5x11") amendment in there for businesses who want to post, but as-is, it's a huge victory.
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http://legis.wisconsin.gov/insession/assembly/index.htm
Watch it here. (nothing going on as of 11:32, retired for party caucuses)
Should be an entertaining slew of nonsensical Democrat amendments to be slapped down, then passage. With a little luck, someone from "our side" might stick a "big ugly colored sign" (safety orange, bigger than 8.5x11") amendment in there for businesses who want to post, but as-is, it's a huge victory.
Would they have to have a conf. commitee then passed by both houses. Was there any signage language in the Senate bill? I do not remember if it was mentioned.
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It has passed the assembly. On to Gov. Walker to be signed.
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I already had to inform the DPS up here that the page on AK reciprocity was wrong cause it didn't reflect Iowa's unilateral acceptence.
It'll be a pleasure telling them to be on the lookout for Wisconsin. =)
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After twenty years of bills. Hallelujah!
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=)
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Yay!
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Poor lonely little Illinois once Wisconsin goes blue...
AK has 37 state reciprocity, WI will make 38.
I can get a shall-issue non-res in WA (which has a stupid AG who can't read his own reciprocity law, should be blue right now) and in ME.
Oregon almost went open reciprocity this year, once they do the cultural/political divide on carry will be even more obvious.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm60%2Fcarebear8652%2FUSA_Carry_Maps_snapshot.jpg&hash=08c7c262e26d2631e40cd68e81a54b2ae71ae3e3)
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So, are those people evil, or just stupid?
Yes.
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Woo-Hoo!
Monkeyleg, do you sell Bianchi holsters?
(I understand military vets and retired LE won't need to take any courses to get their WI CCW permits, either)
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One of the distributors I deal with carries Bianchi. I don't get the greatest price from them, but I get better than retail. Which model are you looking for?
I really think that, considering the past history of Wisconsin's shall-issue bills, the NRA and the Republican legislature really outdid themselves in passing one of the best bills in the country. There's states that have been shall-issue for years that have restrictions not contained in the WI bill.
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Okay, just so that this is clear as mud, since Handgunlaw.us has zero info (they don't even have an update showing this has passed :facepalm:) and I can't find the actual bill/law, just that "legislative update" that's a memo, not the actual bill.
Can I carry North of the Cheddar Curtain starting on 1 Nov* with my PA Non-Resident permit. I'll keep a copy of my DD214, Hunter Certificate and NRA Pistol Certificate handy.
Or will I get proned out by Barney Fife?
*(Not that I will be anywhere near the Cheddar Curtain in the foreseeable future.)
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After signing the AG is supposed to put out a list of reciprocal states. Per the NRA guy involved it is unilateral mandatory reciprocity, no agreements necessary.
So, short answer is there's no answer to your question yet.
Longer answer, should be an answer shortly after signing posted on the WI DPS website.
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ML, Bianchi #3S for 3" S&W L-Frame 696.
And if I didn't say so earlier, THANK YOU for your hard work in making this happen, even if you aren't present to enjoy the fruits of your earlier labors in Wisconsin!!!
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GW98, do you have a model number such as 17717? I looked at Bianchi's site and some retail sites, but there's a ton of model 3S holsters.
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Signing is on Friday!
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20110701/WDH0101/110701037/Update-Walker-sign-concealed-carry-bill-Rothschild?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE
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Now we get to go through the whole, "who is going to post and not post"-hand wringing. Or which LEA's are going to "not care what the law says" and try to arrest CCW'ers or charge them with something or try to Terry-stop harass them into learning "who's still the boss".
Then after a year... or five, the belated editorials that "Yeah... no blood in the streets." as if this was some sort of revelation. Although be sure to catch the backhanded criticisms that there's no increase in justifiable self-defense shootings either. As if it was some sort of standard to the usefulness of CCW.
Mrs. Dual is nominally pro-carry, however gets resistant to the idea when you get down to actual particulars. She mentioned that on one of her metro area "mommy boards" someone was griping about the law, and surprisingly, the pro's outweighed the cons. Which she found somewhat refreshing.
However, just to assert her own independence, sort of "Bill O'Rielly-style" she said she agreed with the idea that "There's just some places a gun isn't appropriate, like the zoo.."
I agreed, and told her that's why we only wear seat belts when we think there's going to be a crash. Mrs. Dual told me she didn't want to argue with me and was sorry she mentioned it. Which is code for "You win, so I'm taking my ball and going home." :laugh:
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However, just to assert her own independence, sort of "Bill O'Rielly-style" she said she agreed with the idea that "There's just some places a gun isn't appropriate, like the zoo.."
I agreed, and told her that's why we only wear seat belts when we think there's going to be a crash. Mrs. Dual told me she didn't want to argue with me and was sorry she mentioned it. Which is code for "You win, so I'm taking my ball and going home." :laugh:
Great come back. I will have to remember that one if someone makes a statement like that to me.
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Great come back. I will have to remember that one if someone makes a statement like that to me.
I'm going to actually start removing my seatbelt in the car if/when it comes up again. And start countering her with "Why? These are our own local 'safe' roads?" and "What's the matter, are you planning on crashing?"
Note, Mrs. Dual is simply stubborn. She will never concede defeat or change her mind. The closest I'll ever get is that I might be able to "train" her through the negative stimulus that she does not like losing arguments, and as such to no longer protest, or bring the subject up.
She's the kind of person who'll almost never try something, or "like it" even if all things being equal, she would have liked it, just because she felt someone wanted her to like it. It's the same for shooting. She refuses to try it, simply because it's her stance she does not want to. She's not scared of shooting, nor would she find it unpleasant. She merely does not want to do it, because she knows I want her to try it.
And much like Monkeyleg's motorcycles and cars and his spouse, she has the resentful dynamic of any hobby or interest that is not focused on her.
The only way she would ever change her mind about it is that she met some woman-friend who is an avid shooter and suddenly decided to like shooting "on her own". You can sort of see the dynamic in that my prior post, the ONLY times she even mentions guns, shooting, RKBA-politics is when other women are talking about it, but quickly shuts down with pretty much any feedback from me, negative, positive, or neutral once she's reminded about how big a part of "gun culture" is my identity.
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Maybe we should just marry some inflatable dolls, AJ. ;)
I'm 100% certain you're right about the newspapers waiting a year or five before reporting no blood in the streets.
What galls me is that, for all the years we were pushing this, the Journal Sentinel and other newspapers almost never pointed out that 48 other states have some form of CCW, with most being shall-issue, and no problems have arisen. The Journal Sentinel has said that to some extent recently, but even then not all that much.
If the media had talked about the experiences of other states, this wouldn't have been as difficult.
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Eugene Kane's recent butthurt over passage of CCW was priceless.
He was just throwing everything against the wall (that he has left) and seeing what might stick. http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/124391814.html
Essentially he's saying "The cops and experts agree, you'll never actually shoot anyone". Then handwaves away the overwhelming number of states that have already passed CCW with "My mom said if your friends jumped off a bridge..." etc.
Usually Kane is better at dancing around what he REALLY means, but this time, he has no good way to "go there".
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Oh, that's wonderful. I'm disappointed with Eugene, though. That's probably the first column he's written where he didn't use a racism angle and with concealed carry at that, a topic that just begs for the racism label.
This is great:
More often than not, people would face more danger of having the weapon taken and used against them during an unexpected encounter with a criminal.
IRRC, it was Tamara who said, "if it's that easy to take a gun from someone, I'll just take my gun back."
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IRRC, it was Tamara who said, "if it's that easy to take a gun from someone, I'll just take my gun back."
Yeah, that's why I don't bother carrying. I'll just take whatever weapon my enemy is trying to use.
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Eugene Kane's recent butthurt over passage of CCW was priceless. He was just throwing everything against the wall (that he has left) and seeing what might stick. http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/124391814.html
If you talk to officers - [blah-blah]
For cops, a concealed carry law turns every traffic stop, public event or encounter with an angry civilian into a nerve-racking test to figure out who might be packing heat and who isn't.
Bwahahaha! If you talk to officers, you'll find out that this was already true.
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Bwahahaha! If you talk to officers, you'll find out that this was already true.
Nah, they just like to stand slightly behind you when you're in your car to give you a sore neck while they write a ticket.
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Oops!
Bianchi #3S, Size 02, Model # 13769. (Right hand for 3" K/L Frame)
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Oh, that's wonderful. I'm disappointed with Eugene, though. That's probably the first column he's written where he didn't use a racism angle and with concealed carry at that, a topic that just begs for the racism label.
This is great:
IRRC, it was Tamara who said, "if it's that easy to take a gun from someone, I'll just take my gun back."
It's there. He WANTS to say: "CCW was passed so nervous white people can shoot black ones..." but he's out of ammo and can't work it in.
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Oops!
Bianchi #3S, Size 02, Model # 13769. (Right hand for 3" K/L Frame)
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/004605.shtml
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesjones.com%2Fwww%2Fimages%2Fposts%2Fhoffnersholsterbk3.jpg&hash=7913df04d1b071e04ffe4164d838a7cf6539a9ea)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hoffners.com%2Fmin4a.jpg&hash=59c278d60caa8912e08d989d7a4d5452701c5c86)
Saw this holster for the first time in Alaska Airlines' inflight magazine. Seems ideal for 3"+ bbl revo's as it keeps the cylinder above the beltline, making the intrusion in to the waistband more or less the same as an auto as opposed to jamming a 2" diam lump of steel in there with you.
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In light of recent trends, if you live in the Milwaukee metro area, I'd suggest going with a higher capacity magazine fed semi-automatic. =(
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In light of recent trends, if you live in the Milwaukee metro area, I'd suggest going with a higher capacity magazine fed semi-automatic.
I work in that area. I don't go to work without a carbine in the trunk.
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I work in that area. I don't go to work without a carbine in the trunk.
Not even close to Milwaukee's north side... yet, however central and eastern West Allis is getting bad too. I've found out through some real estate friends that West Allis has the most aggressive rent assistance program in SE WI. =(
Just the other week, around 9:30 at night, we had a drunk trying to force his way into the house because he believed "Our (imaginary) 17 year old son stole his beer." Fortunately he was an older small wiry guy, and while you can't COUNT on a drunk being passive (I'm sure they teach cops to be careful) that's the kind of drunk he was.
He actually slipped right past me as I was bent over in the gap between the house and our temporary above ground vinyl pool's pumps and hoses. And I stood up to see him trying to push past Mrs. Dual into our back door. He had to invade a very private 6' high privacy fenced in back yard with a gate to get where he was.
Best guess is he was making a drunken beer run to one of the convenience stores 2 blocks away on a busier street corner, some teen offered to "help carry his case of beer home" then just ran off with it. We had just pulled in from some late errands, and we were the only lights/activity he saw as he staggered down the street.
Mrs. Dual was screaming at him, he was claiming he wasn't drunk, and recited the alphabet, skipping "LMNOP" entirely in the process of trying to prove it. I was dialing 911 and giving a description when he finally started staggering off down the street. If it weren't for the attempted forced entry, I'd have let it go, so I followed him from a safe distance, about 25 yards behind him, keeping the West Allis Po-po with a running commentary on his location. He started dodging between houses right when the squads rolled up on me, and had to have him pointed out to them.
In the past ten years we've been there, we've had kids place an aluminum/lye soda bottle bomb on our enclosed front porch. One car break-in. A brick and eggs thrown through a car's rear windshield during a multi-block vandalism spree. Verbally abusive teens urinating on my fence and garage, and now the drunk guy trying to get into our house.
And, barring any major economic disruptions, it's probably going to be about 5-7 years before we can afford to move further west into the Waukesha County burbs. =|
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AJ with the non-mob mob beatings over the weekend, may I suggest belt-fed's wherever you go in Milwaukee? I read the JS article, and had to laugh when the responding cops essentially said, "what mobs?"
GW98, I have just one distributor who handles Bianchi, and they don't have that model. Holsters are a real pain, because there's a gazillion sizes and models and colors. I'd be surprised if anyone carries all of Bianchi, or any other big holster maker.
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That's fine, ML.
I had to at least ask, and throw business to you first.
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And, barring any major economic disruptions, it's probably going to be about 5-7 years before we can afford to move further west into the Waukesha County burbs
I hear that Brookfield/New Berlin and possibly a few other areas have the citizens fighting 'rent assisted' apartment complexes being put up by shady contactors too right now and are losing the battles. :mad:
You ought to look 20 miles north- I feel perfectly safe walking into Walmart at 11:00 pm on any given night, and even run into my state Senator a few times there during that time of night =D
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That's fine, ML.
I had to at least ask, and throw business to you first.
Just Google that model number and see what comes up.
:laugh:
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AJ with the non-mob mob beatings over the weekend, may I suggest belt-fed's wherever you go in Milwaukee? I read the JS article, and had to laugh when the responding cops essentially said, "what mobs?"
Well, you may recall my shoulder holster concealment rig I made out of Kydex for my Kel-Tec Sub9 folding carbine, with provision for a MOLLE pouch holding 3 32 round magazines on the other side. Unfortunately, the WI CCW statute is specific to handguns. =(
However, my Draco AK pistol runs like a top. I was going to get my feet wet with NFA and SBR it, however now I'm not so sure I want to do that. ;)
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Just Google that model number and see what comes up.
Very funny. Give Bing a try. ;)
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I hear that Brookfield/New Berlin and possibly a few other areas have the citizens fighting 'rent assisted' apartment complexes being put up by shady contactors too right now and are losing the battles. :mad:
You ought to look 20 miles north- I feel perfectly safe walking into Walmart at 11:00 pm on any given night, and even run into my state Senator a few times there during that time of night =D
Yeah, it's New Berlin. Public pressure got the project stopped. And the mayor went on a rant about his racist constituents. ;/
Now the Obama admin is working to sue the city in federal court to force it to completion.
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That's fine, ML.
I had to at least ask, and throw business to you first.
In case you're still looking, I got mine through Midway.
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I had a little bit of a lift today. Someone from the NRA called to invite me to the by-invitation-only signing ceremony, and then a party afterwards.
It would have been nice to have been called a week ago, but I still couldn't have gone.
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Signing the WI carry bill? Sweet.
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I had a little bit of a lift today. Someone from the NRA called to invite me to the by-invitation-only signing ceremony, and then a party afterwards.
It would have been nice to have been called a week ago, but I still couldn't have gone.
I'm really glad they at least thought of you. That was very nice of them.
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WI DoJ publishes a FAQ about concealed carry in WI:
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw_frequently_asked_questions.pdf
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However, my Draco AK pistol runs like a top.
Please don't paint the muzzle orange.
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No list yet of what permits they'll recognize, but it sounds like any permit that does a background check will fly, so Non-Resident permits will work as long as there is a background check.
If you are a WI resident and have a Utah/Florida etc. permit, those permit(s) will not be valid for you in WI.
They also have to enter into agreements with other states to have the WI permit recognized in those states. So that list is TBD.
I think I might have to head up to WI to the first week of November to scoop up all those guns that will be flooding the streets, along with some of the blood. I could really use some better blood. =D
[ar15] [ar15] [ar15] [ar15] [ar15]
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Well that WI permit is good in AK and AZ right now.
Or will be when they issue it.
For now your library card authorizes carry in AK and AZ.
Never mind.
=D