Author Topic: Pretzel logic on CCW in Wisconsin (Read 54140 times)

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #100 on:** June 09, 2011, 10:39:05 AM »

Quote from: AJ Dual on June 09, 2011, 10:00:21 AM

I don't even worry about it.

Every state that's passed CCW in the past 20 years has gone through the same thing.

After a year or two of people going through their daily lives of not seeing the CCW'ers guns, everything returns to normal.

Sure, AJ. Maybe she'll get accustomed to people carrying. But she probably votes. And she can reproduce.

brimic · « **Reply #101 on:** June 09, 2011, 10:57:55 AM »

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Sure, AJ. Maybe she'll get accustomed to people carrying. But she probably votes. And she can reproduce.

I wouldn't be tto concerned about what a minority of loons think- you aren't going to convince them otherwise no matter how hard you try.

Speaking of which...

Quote

The "union-busting" legislation has already hurt them.

I don't think the union-busting has hurt the conservatives cause. Those who are against it ~~generally aren't~~ are rarely republican voters anyhow. The WiSC election was supposd to be the left's 'referendum' on Walker's policies... despite all of the childishness in the Kloppenburg/union/teacher/red diaper baby camp, Prosser still won.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #102 on:** June 09, 2011, 11:31:17 AM »

Yes, and the electoral math does not look bad on the recall elections either.

I suspect all will keep their seats. Or if one loses his, one of the democrats up for recall will lose theirs over fleeing to bust the quorum.

brimic · « **Reply #103 on:** June 09, 2011, 11:32:59 AM »

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Or if one loses his, one of the democrats up for recall will lose theirs over fleeing to bust the quorum.

If one does, I hope its Luther Olsen.

StopTheGrays · « **Reply #104 on:** June 09, 2011, 12:08:14 PM »

Quote from: brimic on June 09, 2011, 11:32:59 AM

If one does, I hope its Luther Olsen.

+1
If there was a word stronger the RINO to describe him I would use it.

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Well, for starters, it would not be well-regulated, since no one would be checked, licensed or trained. We'd all be freelance shoot-'em-uppers. It would be quite the opposite of security; bring 17 items to the 15-only checkout line and the irate citizen behind you with 14 could drill you and your watermelon.

I read that and thought "race baiting". Anyone else?

AJ Dual · « **Reply #105 on:** June 09, 2011, 12:19:22 PM »

Quote from: StopTheGrays on June 09, 2011, 12:08:14 PM

+1
If there was a word stronger the RINO to describe him I would use it.

I read that and thought "race baiting". Anyone else?

Dunno. Although as Monkeyleg can attest, the inner-city minority constituency does not support CCW much at all. Despite the fact they may need it the most, they feel it's like having "hunting licenses for their kids", and accept as much as 1/3rd of their young male population will be some sort of felon, and would rather white folk not be able to shoot them.

The more pragmatic ones who do feel that racial solidarity ends at felonious assault, well, they just keep quiet about it.

More good news, unless it gets amended away, it looks as if bar-carry/restaurant with a liquor license-carry will be good to go. If you're aware of how hard other supposedly "pro gun" states have fought for this, (and often failed) and who've had CCW for decades, you know what a big deal that is.

StopTheGrays · « **Reply #106 on:** June 09, 2011, 04:24:49 PM »

http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/06/dems-say-concealed-carry-amendment-full.html

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Sen. Bob Jauch, D-Poplar, wondered why the onus is being put on those who don't want weapons in their home or business to make that clear. He suggested it would be better to reverse the bill so those who want to allow guns should post signs stating guns are welcome.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #107 on:** June 09, 2011, 04:38:01 PM »

StopTheGrays, you need to understand Bob Jauch. One, he's a liberal's liberal. Two, he's a snob. Three, he's an *expletive deleted*.

In 2002, when the Democrat senate majority leader used some questionable parliamentary tricks to keep the bill from coming to the floor for vote, the crowd in the gallery went nuts. That's not allowed, as spectators are supposed to keep quiet. It's not allowed for legislators to speak to the gallery, but that didn't stop Jauch from telling us to stop behaving like children.

Here's an example of Bob Jauch, representative of the working man. Other legislators drive to Madison from their districts, many of them hundreds of miles from their districts. Jauch drives a short distance to Minnesota, and takes a commercial plane to Madison. His per diem expenses are the highest of any legislator. But it's okay, you see, because he's doing it for the people.

StopTheGrays · « **Reply #108 on:** June 09, 2011, 04:39:31 PM »

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The JFC has adopted the concealed carry bill with an amendment to include licensing and training requirements on a 12-4 vote, with the four Dems on the committee voting no.

http://budget.wispolitics.com/2011/06/concealed-carry-passes-jfc-on-party.html

They adjourned after that.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #109 on:** June 09, 2011, 06:34:26 PM »

Sad to see Constitutional Carry die, but as is right now, this is as simple and clean a kick-ass shall-issue bill as you're going to get anywhere.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/2011-13Bills/2011_06_09_SB93_LC.pdf

$50 for five years. Renewals are cheaper.

Training required, but NRA safety course, hunters safety from any state, DD214 military cert CCW from another state with a training req. will all do just fine.

Bar and restaurant carry as long as you're not drinking.

No "newspaper database" (Choke on it you MSM slime!

)

Employers can't ban parking lot storage of CCW. (WOW!)

Plus it has some extra car-carry protection, and anti-harassment language in there for the OC'ers too. Not an OC'er myself, but it gives me the warm fuzzies to see them GET something out of this.

The only big downside I see right now is that minimum size for no-carry signs are 5x7" and have vague or no wording and color requirements. So expect to see WAVE/Brady/VPC spam-faxing no-carry signs everywhere. Good news is it's every entrance required. So if a mall or something posts, and you know they forgot to put a sign on one of the doors, just say you went in that one...

cosine · « **Reply #110 on:** June 09, 2011, 06:38:28 PM »

And if you fail at concealing and the business spots it what do they do? Just ask you to leave? Or is it an arrestable/chargeable offense?

Also, is it obvious if an NRA basic (pistol) class suffices, even if you took it last summer, before the bill?

AJ Dual · « **Reply #111 on:** June 09, 2011, 10:13:28 PM »

Quote from: cosine on June 09, 2011, 06:38:28 PM

And if you fail at concealing and the business spots it what do they do? Just ask you to leave? Or is it an arrestable/chargeable offense?

Also, is it obvious if an NRA basic (pistol) class suffices, even if you took it last summer, before the bill?

It's now it's own special violation, unlike previous versions which would have just been an extension of trespass law. It's a civil forfeiture. (Weaksauce, on purpose.. Thanks Republicans.

)

Don't quote me on it, but considering how they're going to accept Hunters Safety from any time, any state, DD214's of military service from whenever, I'm thinking an NRA basic class from a year previous would very likely suffice.

I know the hardliners are upset over Constitutional carry being abandoned (for now..) but they've REALLY bent over backwards to make this as cheap and easy as possible.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #112 on:** June 09, 2011, 10:42:06 PM »

I just hope everything you've described stays intact, AJ. You know how we were screwed before.

I'd sure like the reciprocity for out-of-state licensees to stay. The restaurant and tavern carry, too, as my relatives always want to go out to eat for the occasions we're there.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #113 on:** June 10, 2011, 10:31:45 AM »

Fitzgerald was on Jay Weber's morning talk-show discussing it. He seems to feel this is largely the form the bill will take.

And I think everyone was so cowed by the Constitutional Carry alternative, they're not going to make lots of noise of poison amendments. So intentional or not, the Hammer & Anvil tactic of putting Constitutional Carry out there as a sacrificial lamb worked. I think it might be on Walker's desk by next week.

I can hardly wait to start shooting people over traffic disputes!

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #114 on:** June 10, 2011, 11:13:22 AM »

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I can hardly wait to start shooting people over traffic disputes!

It would be more fun to get stinking drunk at an Olive Garden (while wearing camouflage, of course, and carrying a Desert Eagle), blow away the waitress because there was a fly in your soup, fire off some warning shots at a Little League game, and then go shoot the Point Beach nuclear reactor and cause it to melt down.

I mean, if you're going to pander to the anti's fears, try to get them all in.

kgbsquirrel · « **Reply #115 on:** June 10, 2011, 11:54:02 AM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on June 10, 2011, 11:13:22 AM

It would be more fun to get stinking drunk at an Olive Garden (while wearing camouflage, of course, and carrying a Desert Eagle), blow away the waitress because there was a fly in your soup, fire off some warning shots at a Little League game, and then go shoot the Point Beach nuclear reactor and cause it to melt down.

I mean, if you're going to pander to the anti's fears, try to get them all in.

Who said anything about warning shots? That little bastard playing short stop keeps throwing my paper in the flower beds. Also don't forget to use some airliners for skeet shooting on the way to the NPP.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #116 on:** June 10, 2011, 03:10:06 PM »

FWIW, I wrote my state senator Leah Vukmir, a pretty solid conservative, requesting the following.

- That the signage rules be amended to require posting signs be something larger than 8.5x11" and in "safety orange" to prevent "spam" faxing and "fear mongering" by the various anti-orgs. And that having a standard of 12x12" in orange, with specific verbiate would alleviate confusion on the part of business owners, carriers, and LEO's as to what constitutes an "official sign". Possibly even saving time in the courts. [cough]andtodiscouragebusinessesfrompostingbyrequiringbiggerugliersigns...[/cough]

- That the listed .gov secure locations that are prohibited from CCW be outfitted with lockers or secure storage for carriers. (I acknowledged that the car-storage provisions mollify this somewhat. But I pointed out it might make large urban municipal lots crime magnets knowing people will have left firearms in their cars...)

- To take a stab at mandating carry be allowed in the UW system campuses, that crime reports of robberies and assaults on students, especially the most urban campuses, UW Madision and UW Milwaukee were quite common.

I further pointed out that she needs to be aware that bar/restaraunt carry, and the employer/car exemption were HUGELY important, that other pro-gun/conservative states have fought over these issues for years, and need to be protected in this bill if at all possible.

cosine · « **Reply #117 on:** June 11, 2011, 02:32:35 PM »

So does the bill permit licensed carry in the 1,000 foot GFSZ?

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #118 on:** June 11, 2011, 04:15:18 PM »

Quote

So does the bill permit licensed carry in the 1,000 foot GFSZ?

As long as you're passing through the zone, or you live or work within the zone.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #119 on:** June 11, 2011, 05:00:51 PM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on June 11, 2011, 04:15:18 PM

As long as you're passing through the zone, or you live or work within the zone.

So, a teacher?

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #120 on:** June 11, 2011, 06:04:34 PM »

No, not teachers, or anyone who works at the school (unless they're passing through the zone). If a business or other workplace is within the 1000 yards, the person can carry there. Carry in schools is not allowed.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #121 on:** June 11, 2011, 06:12:47 PM »

Quote from: Monkeyleg on June 11, 2011, 06:04:34 PM

No, not teachers, or anyone who works at the school (unless they're passing through the zone). If a business or other workplace is within the 1000 yards, the person can carry there. Carry in schools is not allowed.

Oh. Teachers are unpersons then. Carry on.

cosine · « **Reply #122 on:** June 11, 2011, 10:42:04 PM »

Okay. I was trying to read the pdf, but I'm not really conversant with the GFSZ law anyway so I couldn't clearly tell. I live within 1,000 feet of an elementary school, and have to basically pass right by the school grounds to get out of my subdivision and go anywhere in Milwaukee or the suburbs.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #123 on:** June 11, 2011, 11:07:30 PM »

Quote from: cosine on June 11, 2011, 10:42:04 PM

Okay. I was trying to read the pdf, but I'm not really conversant with the GFSZ law anyway so I couldn't clearly tell. I live within 1,000 feet of an elementary school, and have to basically pass right by the school grounds to get out of my subdivision and go anywhere in Milwaukee or the suburbs.

Yes, you were always okay travelling or transporting, or possessing in your home. And now once you have a permit, you can carry, right up to the sidewalk of the school, but not one step beyond.

cosine · « **Reply #124 on:** June 11, 2011, 11:10:38 PM »

For some reason I was under the impression that 1,000 ft. GFSZ meant that it had to be unloaded and securely stored away when traveling or transporting through the zone.

News:

Author Topic: Pretzel logic on CCW in Wisconsin (Read 54140 times)