Gut feeling: Churches will take lead in the lockdown revolt

[Ron]

Most churches have abandoned sound doctrine and are pretty feminized, just too nice and unoffensive.

Looking for leadership from most of them in the USA is a fools errand, unless you want to be a leftist.

[Perd Hapley]

Most churches have abandoned sound doctrine and are pretty feminized, just too nice and unoffensive.

Looking for leadership from most of them in the USA is a fools errand, unless you want to be a leftist.

Um, who's expecting anything from those churches, other than BLM signs and rainbow banners?  

I don't think anyone's expecting this to come from the kind of "churches" you're talking about.

[Ron]

Um, who's expecting anything from those churches, other than BLM signs and rainbow banners?  

I don't think anyone's expecting this to come from the kind of "churches" you're talking about.

Large swaths of the Evangelical world are trending that direction, it's not just the old dead mainline denominations.

[lee n. field]

Large swaths of the Evangelical world are trending that direction, it's not just the old dead mainline denominations.

Since evangelicalism picks up on trends when they're tailing off elsewhere, that's maybe a good thing.

(Kidding.  )

[Perd Hapley]

Large swaths of the Evangelical world are trending that direction, it's not just the old dead mainline denominations.

Denomination (or not) is irrelevant to the point at hand. Let's make this really simple. We're talking about the possibility that churches will buck the prevailing trend, and push back on lock-down. For what it's worth, I'm not so sure churches are doing that any more than gyms and bars and all those people flocking to the beaches and parks. But that was the OP's contention. Do you really think the OP was talking about the rainbow-colored churches that are eagerly following along with whatever elite opinion tells them is right? Do you think he was expecting that kind of counter-cultural leadership from churches like that? Those aren't the churches he's talking about.

[Ron]

Laodicean churches leading the way to any place other than hell is a pipe dream.

They are content to live stream social justice sermons with a sprinkling of "you go girlz" and a side dish of Caucasian self loathing. 

[Perd Hapley]

Laodicean churches leading the way to any place other than hell is a pipe dream.

They are content to live stream social justice sermons with a sprinkling of "you go girlz" and a side dish of Caucasian self loathing. 

We've already agreed on that point.

[cordex]

We are months into this, guys. Ron has it completely backwards. The “church“ that has indisputably done the most to lead in the lockdown revolt (darn near revolution) has in fact been the Church of the SJW, not some pure-of-doctrine, uber-faithful Christian sect.

Even if a church were to be approved by Ron as sufficiently righteous (and I’m guessing such a church would have a hard time existing outside his own skull) it has demonstrably done less than SJW rioters when it comes down to opposing the lockdowns.

[Ron]

We are months into this, guys. Ron has it completely backwards. The “church“ that has indisputably done the most to lead in the lockdown revolt (darn near revolution) has in fact been the Church of the SJW, not some pure-of-doctrine, uber-faithful Christian sect.

Even if a church were to be approved by Ron as sufficiently righteous (and I’m guessing such a church would have a hard time existing outside his own skull) it has demonstrably done less than SJW rioters when it comes down to opposing the lockdowns.

I'm just not seeing any difference in the response of Churches as compared to any other institution in America.

After decades of not leading anyone anywhere it is not realistic to look to those churches for leadership now. Churches in the USA always seem to follow whatever the popular trend is and put a "Christian" spin on it.

I'm not looking for a pure or sufficiently righteous church if such an institution even exists. My fellowship is with any follower of Jesus regardless of their affiliation.

Churches as an institution, in America, is a salt that has lost its savor a long time ago. Do you disagree?

The Church of SJW aren't leading the revolt against lockdowns.

They are exempt from the lockdowns that everyone else must obey.

They are taking victory laps.

You just sit and home and watch your services livestream, telling you to be a nice person and not to judge anyone, while the Church of SJW dominate the abandoned field and finish taking control of the country.

I don't consider what I'm saying self righteousness or being judgmental.

I consider it paying attention and not kidding myself.

The local church has a more important function than leading social movements anyway.

[cordex]

I'm just not seeing any difference in the response of Churches as compared to any other institution in America.

Okay, what exactly would you want a non-lukewarm church to do?

Churches as an institution, in America, is a salt that has lost its savor a long time ago. Do you disagree?

I don't think "Churches as an institution" has ever existed in the United States in any unified manner, and I'm not prepared to condemn all churches in that way.  Are you?

The Church of SJW aren't leading the revolt against lockdowns.

They are exempt from the lockdowns that everyone else must obey.

That is not wrong, but by the same token the blatant lack of standards for the rioters (or politician funerals, for that matter) gives lie to the claims that the lockdowns are actually important to the people who issue them.  That undermines the moral authority of such regulations in a way that simple disobedience by people who oppose them could never do.

You just sit and home and watch your services livestream, telling you to be a nice person and not to judge anyone, while the Church of SJW dominate the abandoned field and finish taking control of the country.

I don't consider what I'm saying self righteousness or being judgmental.

... really?

Ron, could you please - in specific and clear words - lay out the correct way for a church, or individual to behave to live up to your expectations?  I'm asking in good faith and hoping to find some common ground: What should we do?  Churches, individuals, political parties, whatever - what specific course would elicit the nod of approval from Ron?  For that matter, what are you, your church, or your like minded followers of Jesus doing?

[Perd Hapley]

FWIW, Ron, I've been physically attending church this whole time, and the content of the sermons is not what you're describing.

[Ron]

Okay, what exactly would you want a non-lukewarm church to do?
Well, is a revival too much to ask for?
I don't think "Churches as an institution" has ever existed in the United States in any unified manner, and I'm not prepared to condemn all churches in that way.  Are you? No, I don't doubt there are congregations who are still salty. The influence of Christianity is and has been waning for a long time and in general. "Christians" have been accommodating the left for decades now in the USA. The use of the word institution didn't mean they are a single organization, all of one mind and purpose. It was a catch all phrase for those that call their clubs churches.
That is not wrong, but by the same token the blatant lack of standards for the rioters (or politician funerals, for that matter) gives lie to the claims that the lockdowns are actually important to the people who issue them.  That undermines the moral authority of such regulations in a way that simple disobedience by people who oppose them could never do.
It tells us who is really in charge.
... really?

Ron, could you please - in specific and clear words - lay out the correct way for a church, or individual to behave to live up to your expectations?  I'm asking in good faith and hoping to find some common ground: What should we do?  Churches, individuals, political parties, whatever - what specific course would elicit the nod of approval from Ron?  For that matter, what are you, your church, or your like minded followers of Jesus doing?
I alluded to this in a post above. I've come to the point where I don't think engaging in the culture war through politics is the role of churches. As important as politics feels it's really a distraction from what is really important. The role of the church is to make better Christians. Disciples of Jesus who love each other, love God and follow Gods commandments. If there is an influence on society it is a secondary affect (effect?) of Christians loving and following Gods word. It's a bottom up, organically influencing and changing of minds and hopefully spiritual transformation. Not a top down, seizing control and imposing order on unbelievers. I'm sure there are still a minority of churches in every state operating this way. Fewer and fewer teach separation from the world and actual discipleship though.

Don't mind me, Online I'm just a grouchy Gus these days. Like a pressure relief valve. Aren't you guys lucky? 

[cordex]

No, I don't doubt there are congregations who are still salty. The influence of Christianity is and has been waning for a long time and in general. "Christians" have been accommodating the left for decades now in the USA.

I agree with both of those points.  The social influence of Christianity has been steadily decreasing and there are a lot of people who claim the title of Christian but do not even attempt to live it.

The use of the word institution didn't mean they are a single organization, all of one mind and purpose. It was a catch all phrase for those that call their clubs churches.

If you intended "Churches as an institution" as a broad catch-all that includes both the good and the bad, and you use a Biblical allusion with the direct implication that the whole group is valueless and should be discarded then I do not agree.  Nor is it at all historically unusual that there's a lot of chaff mixed up with the wheat.

I alluded to this in a post above. I've come to the point where I don't think engaging in the culture war through politics is the role of churches.  As important as politics feels it's really a distraction from what is really important.  The role of the church is to make better Christians. Disciples of Jesus who love each other, love God and follow Gods commandments. If there is an influence on society it is a secondary affect (effect?) of Christians loving and following Gods word. It's a bottom up, organically influencing and changing of minds and hopefully spiritual transformation. Not a top down, seizing control and imposing order on unbelievers. I'm sure there are still churches in every state operating this way.

I would say that this absolutely qualifies as common ground.   

[gunsmith]

FWIW, Ron, I've been physically attending church this whole time, and the content of the sermons is not what you're describing.

may I inquire as to what Church do you belong to?

 I seem unwelcome at most Churches, and I have Sundays off again - I plan on checking out A.O.G
and the Calvinist as well as the local Nazarene Church.

the last Church I was a part of was a small offshoot of C.O.C ( I think ) - but if I'm not wanted I stop going

[Jim147]

I do service for all the churches around me. I'm an atheist but I do service for all of them and am welcomed into any of them.

Some churches don't like you if you are not a regular membe. I.e. My wife's church wouldn't marry us because she had no been a member for a few years.

[Perd Hapley]

I do service for all the churches around me. I'm an atheist but I do service for all of them and am welcomed into any of them.

Some churches don't like you if you are not a regular membe. I.e. My wife's church wouldn't marry us because she had no been a member for a few years.

There may be another reason for the marriage thing. Our church used to do weddings for non-members, but it led to people doing things or wearing things in the house of God that we (or at least some of us) were pretty convinced God would not approve of. Sometimes it was music, or language people were using, or revealing clothing (oh no! shoulders!) (or probably some other things I have forgotten, or just never heard about). So we just decided we'd better limit wedding ceremonies to church members. If people think of their building as being dedicated to God, it makes things a little different.

Plus, it's one way for churches to protect themselves from being forced to bake cakes.

[RoadKingLarry]

 

[Ron]

may I inquire as to what Church do you belong to?

 I seem unwelcome at most Churches, and I have Sundays off again - I plan on checking out A.O.G
and the Calvinist as well as the local Nazarene Church.

the last Church I was a part of was a small offshoot of C.O.C ( I think ) - but if I'm not wanted I stop going

I heard there were these things called Cowboy Churches. Do you look like a cowboy? 

They are a much more casual experience from what I've read.

Currently I don't even own any "Sunday Going to meet'n clothes".

[gunsmith]

I heard there were these things called Cowboy Churches. Do you look like a cowboy? 

They are a much more casual experience from what I've read.

Currently I don't even own any "Sunday Going to meet'n clothes".

I used to look like a cowboy, however its been awhile and I was really more of a ranch hand  - I had the hat and six shooter, but I didn't know how to ride a horse and didn't own any cattle

[lee n. field]

I used to look like a cowboy, however its been awhile and I was really more of a ranch hand  - I had the hat and six shooter, but I didn't know how to ride a horse and didn't own any cattle

So, literally "all hat and no cattle"?

 

[gunsmith]

So, literally "all hat and no cattle"?

 

heh, yes, quite literally LOL

[zxcvbob]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-church-holds-indoor-services-amid-pandemic-defying-temporary-restraining-order-2020-08-09/

[HankB]

Nevada: Casinos are open at 50% capacity. Churches are limited to 50 people.

Solution:  https://www.westernjournal.com/evangelicals-trump-defy-nv-church-restrictions-holding-service-casino/

[French G.]

As for race tracks, all the North Carolina ones got letters last week. Not banning races, but no more than 25 people in the stands. Which bans races. Roy Cooper could out idiot Ralph "Coonman" Northam any day.