Author Topic: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?  (Read 54072 times)

Strings

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Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« on: April 26, 2010, 02:42:23 AM »
I'm actually late posting this.

Most here know I'm heavily involved in the fight against all forms of child abuse. One of my fellow travellers has a blog, chok-full of good info to help keep kids safe. And she just put up her annual post about "Alice Day": http://tuecaa.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/alice-day-2010-a-day-for-those-who-rape-little-girls/

A quick excerpt:

Quote
Alice Day is a celebration by pedophiles and child rapists, who have distorted the relationship between Alice Liddell and Charles Dodgson – author of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland (though you know him by his pen name of Lewis Carroll). They claim there was a sexual relationship between he and the child just because he would take her and other children on rowing trips telling them stories he would create through his own imagination. This has become known as “the Alice myth” and has absolutely no foundation in truth.

This was accompanied by the naming of the pedophile site used to lure young girls in a way to introduce them to sex with older men, the site named Annabelliegh, or Girl Chat.  This is their twisted distortion of Edgar Alan Poe’s poem, Annabel Lee.

The pedophiles and child rapists have adopted what they call “Alice Day” in celebration of who they revere as a pedophile’s hero and their own sick ideas of little Alice and children like her, of enticing children with stories and any other means to gain a victim.

There are many ways pedophiles and sexual predators will celebrate this day and this month :

1. Find activities in their area involving children – such as parties, park outings, sporting events

– They will watch the children, photograph the children, and attempt to have a BM or GM, which stands for “Boy Moment” and “Girl Moment”. This includes a conversation with the child, in which they could gain information to get to the child at a later date. However, this could also include just sitting back watching a particular child at play.

They appraise a child’s form as if it were that of a stripper in a club, and they write the moment down later for their friends – online and in real life – with added feelings of desire they had while exploring the child’s body with their eyes and filthy mind.

Please keep in mind that a child does not have to be nude or in a bathing suit to be visualized that way by these people.

Please read the whole thing. Pass it on to people you know, who might attract the attention of a pedophile.

Let's keep our kids safe!
No Child Should Live In Fear

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PTK

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 03:11:43 AM »
Quote
Parent: “Excuse me, why are you here?”

Suspect: “Just enjoying the day. Why do you ask?”

Parent: “Are you taking photos of my child?”

Suspect: “Oh, of course not! I was taking photos of that tree there. I’m sorry if your child was in the shot, but it wasn’t my intention.”

Parent: “Please leave or I will call the police.”

Suspect: “This is a public park. I can be where I want to.”

Parent: Stand in between his view and your child while you dial 911 and report to them that there is a person taking photos of your child and he/she refuses to stop.


That seems... extremely paranoid. So, if someone is taking photos you don't like, you call 911?  ???

Isn't that sort of filed under "false report"? I can understand caution, but dang. Nothing else on that article seems out of place, that section was simply extreme.

EDIT: Just in case anyone thinks about taking my comments as defending pedophiles in any way/shape/form, don't. I'm simply puzzled about what I see as being overly paranoid.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 03:18:17 AM by PTK »
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taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 03:31:58 AM »
Yeah, I'm confused exactly what that parent will be telling the dispatcher as the reason he should divert a patrol car to deal with the "situation".

S. Williamson

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 03:37:12 AM »
Wow.  After reading that, I'm making several changes to my profile, as I want absolutely no association with such filth.   [barf]
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Strings

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 05:02:30 AM »
Actually, that's one of the things that pedophiles rely on.

Take a cruise through some of the rest of her site: some very interesting things.

When I first got to know Jade, I thought the same thing. Especially since several of the things she talks about as grooming behaviors are things *I* do. And so do many of my friends. The difference being, neither myself nor my friends are trying to "set up" a child for abuse...

Yes, it sounds paranoid. But I've seen a few too many times where a bit of paranoia would have protected a child...
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

Screw it: just autoclave the planet (thanks Birdman)

PTK

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2010, 05:10:20 AM »
So, your stance is that being overly paranoid on this one issue is a case of "better safe than sorry"? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm really just trying to understand the viewpoint that causes the main proponents of this sort child safety (at least, that's how I view folks like you, in all seriousness) to advocate 911 calls without what would pass for RS or PC for a LEO.
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S. Williamson

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 05:11:17 AM »
I can only take in-depth discussions of... this subject in very small, well-spaced-out doses before either feeling physically ill or losing my temper, so I doubt I'll do much more reading for now.  =(

As it is, though, I'd rather take paranoia over complacency any day.  =(
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PTK

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 05:14:01 AM »
I can only take in-depth discussions of... this subject in very small, well-spaced-out doses before either feeling physically ill or losing my temper, so I doubt I'll do much more reading for now.  =(

This is, for all practical purposes, the only issue that really makes my blood boil as well. The only thing that is keeping me from such at the moment is that it's 3:13AM here and I've been awake far too long. Insomnia of this order is beneficial when one wishes to remain emotionally detached from such a horrid issue.
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Strings

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 05:36:28 AM »
Take the given example...

You're at the park with your child. Adult is there, no kids seem to be "with" them, and they're taking pictures with a camera that (from appearances) is aimed at your children.

When you ask what they're doing, they claim to be taking shots of the background, and never realized your child was in the shot. However, they also refuse to stop aiming that camera in the direction of your children. They also have no form of press credentials.

What would you suggest as a next step (for the concerned parent)?
No Child Should Live In Fear

What was that about a pearl handled revolver and someone from New Orleans again?

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 05:38:39 AM »
When you ask what they're doing, they claim to be taking shots of the background, and never realized your child was in the shot. However, they also refuse to stop aiming that camera in the direction of your children. They also have no form of press credentials.

What would you suggest as a next step (for the concerned parent)?

Remove your child from the public place if you want them to have privacy.


taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2010, 05:42:19 AM »
Remove your child from the public place if you want them to have privacy.



Pretty much.

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2010, 06:02:34 AM »
Might as well just lock your child up in the house, that way no pedophile (or anyone else) could ever take pictures of them.

Let me ask a serious question.

So a pedophile takes a picture of your kid?  So what?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2010, 06:06:16 AM »
I think the fear is they would later come back and abuse them.

Further, while I agree the behavior itself is not illegal, it could be a component of a stalking behavior (which IS often illegal). Also, such a creep may attack other children in the future, or at least that's the concern.

Also: I've heard several times that Alice Day has been invented by pedophiles. Is there an independent/mainstream confirmation of this?
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taurusowner

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2010, 06:42:20 AM »
Then if they come back to abuse your kid, fire til slide lock, reload/reassess.

But if you are just being paranoid about your kid being in someone's photo in a public place, I'm sorry to say that this is still America and we do and should value freedom over safety, and all that that entails.  Nitrogen asks a legit question.  So what if someone, who knows if they are even a pedophile, takes a photo that has your kid in it?

We're letting ourselves get carried away by (justifiable) rage over the idea of pedophiles.  But strip that away and look at the scenario of the park one more time.  The author would seriously have you call the police(otherwise known as "government") over someone engaging in lawful activity in a public place just because it makes you feel uncomfortable.  Is that something we support?

And as an aside, though the law varies state by state, taking photos of someone in a public place does not fit Michigan's stalking statute.

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2010, 07:29:27 AM »
Remove your child from the public place if you want them to have privacy.



This.  You have no right to privacy in a public place.

Another option, of course, is to begin mercilessily hounding the picture taker. 

That said, there's a reason I carry when I take my kids to the park.
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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2010, 09:21:32 AM »
Take the given example...

You're at the park with your child. Adult is there, no kids seem to be "with" them, and they're taking pictures with a camera that (from appearances) is aimed at your children.

When you ask what they're doing, they claim to be taking shots of the background, and never realized your child was in the shot. However, they also refuse to stop aiming that camera in the direction of your children. They also have no form of press credentials.

What would you suggest as a next step (for the concerned parent)?

If I asked him to stop and he continues taking pictures of my child, I'd start getting pictures of him for purposes of identification. If I get a creepy feeling from him, I may then remove my child from the situation. First order of business is documenting the person taking pictures, though.
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MillCreek

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2010, 09:32:09 AM »
As someone who dabbles in landscape and wilderness photography, if someone comes up and starts hassling me about taking pictures on public land, I will be sure to take a few face shots of them.  For identification purposes, should it be necessary. 

If they aren't engaged in illegal activity, they should not be concerned about this. 
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zahc

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2010, 10:06:59 AM »
Dodgson/Carrol was a very prolific early photographer, from back in the days when the process was difficult and expensive. His subject matter was largely young girls. The girls were often dressed and posed in ways which could be taken the wrong way I suppose, by those with the inclination. Dodgeson himself was aware of how his photos could be perceived and destroyed some of them. So, was he a sicko, or just some guy who liked to take pictures of young girls? Is it bad to like to take pictures of, or even look at young girls? They are adorable.

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2010, 10:13:23 AM »
Well, it's not making my life any easier.
 
One of the gigs is to get some decent shots to hack together a couple of websites for an indoor training facility. Also promoting stuff like the wall graphics, etc...
 

 
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MechAg94

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2010, 11:04:08 AM »
There are a lot of things done years ago or even on some of our child hoods that would not be acceptable these days. 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2010, 11:10:32 AM »
Quote
. So, was he a sicko, or just some guy who liked to take pictures of young girls?

He also made some pictures of very... scantily-clad, or erotically-posed girls in ages that were far beyond 'oh people did it younger back then'.

He was a creep. But he never once actually harmed Alice Liddell, and somehow, in his mind, the creepiness served instead to inspire wonderful children's  books.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2010, 12:50:14 PM »
Another option, of course, is to begin mercilessily hounding the picture taker.

That one could be a problem; when I'm carrying $1500+ worth of photo gear, there's pepper spray and a gun available to either hand, and discreet audio recording equipment to document anything that might be construed as a threat of violence or robbery.

Besides, the photographer you can see is highly unlikely to be the one you should worry about.  Even a cheapskate mostly-hobbyist like me can afford a 300mm lens, and extenders are cheap too.  For closer work, someone being subtle would just use their 2+ megapixel phone; texting and taking photos can look pretty similar these days.  I use that tactic a lot on safety/security violations at work; nobody even seems to notice the uniformed security guard that has to stop in clear view of them to send a text message with the back of the phone pointed directly at them.  Then they can't understand how the boss got 8x10s of them screwing up.


vaskidmark

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2010, 12:57:08 PM »
Another person with personal, professional expeiences with pedos and their victims.  While I have not exchanged conversation with Jade, I am more than passing familiar with her history and baggage.

There are times when you can do damn-all little to keep pedos from getting their jollies, such as observing/photographing children in public places.  Some semi-public places such as malls have rules against picture-taking that are probably more the result of paranoid parents' fears than actual merchandising/marketing concerns but if you read the policies they are based on the former.

There are significant constraints that bind the hands of the judiciary, but within those limits there are restrictions on the geographical bounds that can be placed on pedos who are under court order (probation and/or parole).  While few of those involve GPS-based monitoring units (expensive and worthless except for documenting the violation), documentation of violations based on photographic evidence can be turned over to the Community Corrections officers.  Since most of these pedos are on a sex offender database that has a picture, you can compare your mug shot against the one in the database to be sure you have a perv and not an innocent nature photographer.

And if the specific P&P Officer is not too concerned with pictures of someone on their caseload violating a condition of release, there is always the next step of a meeting with the supervisor.  Should that not work one might look to see if the local birdcage liner has any interest in a human interst story.

But getting back to "dealing with them" -- unless you know the rules and the law there is not much you can do to restrict their less overt behavior no matter how ewww-y it seems to you.  These people are sick in a way that pretty much cannot be "cured".  The best you can do is keep your eyes and mind open to the fact that this can happen to your kid.

And by the way - the majority of the worst pervs are NOT strangers cruising in vans trying to hand out candy or get your kid to help look for a lost puppy.  They are folks you know and may even have coming into your home on a regular basis, if not living there already.  Forget teaching "Stranger Danger" - although not a bad concept in and of itself.  Instead, teach that NOBODY but Mommy or Daddy gets to touch any part of you that your bathing suit would cover, unless Mommy or Daddy says it's OK.  (That way medical folks get to care for your kid, but not without permission.)  The same goes for touching anybody else - NEVER any part of the body their bathing suit would cover.

Now - for you folks out there with kids under 12 or so.  Want a real nightmare?  Hire me, or Strings, or Grandpa Shooter to go get your kids to break every single rule you ever taught your kid about strangers with candy and puppydogs.  We should be able to get them across the playground and into the van in under 5 minutes!

stay safe.

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KD5NRH

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2010, 01:03:41 PM »
Forget teaching "Stranger Danger" - although not a bad concept in and of itself.

Does anybody even bother to teach it anymore?  I occasionally fish in the park, and I have to find places that are hard to get to just to cut down on the number of unattended small children wandering over to talk to me.  I may not look as socially unacceptable as some of you guys, but I can generally scare off the beggars in a parking lot.


cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2010, 01:14:38 PM »
i take pictures back  and i've memorized the faces of the local pervs on the "list"  the ones i didn't already know. got 4 working at dominoes. i trust my spidey sense and if someone really gave me the creeps i'd be in a bad spot  and so would they. 
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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