Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on October 11, 2008, 12:18:26 PM
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Gas just dropped to 2.99 here in St. Louis County. The highest we paid for regular was 3.99, as I recall.
How much is gas in your neck of the woods?
How low will it go? Yesterday, some "expert" said it would go down to about 2.25.
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If it goes below a dollar, I'm buying :laugh:
I should have sold all mine when it was over $4.00
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we have a few stations at 2.99 here, but most are in the 3.15-3.25 range.
Chris
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Most of the stations in this area (25 miles north of Seattle) are currently selling unleaded regular for $ 3.30 - 3.65 per gallon. At the peak earlier this year, it got to a high of $ 4.50 per gallon. Diesel is currently selling for about $ 3.75 to 4.15 per gallon.
PS: edited to add: I am told that Washington has among the highest per gallon state gas taxes in the country, so that may explain some of the disparity.
PPS: As I read through this thread, I see that not only are the local housing prices inflated compared to other parts of the country (as we discussed on another thread) but the Pacific NW pays a bit more for gas than some other parts of the country.
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Don't forget to tell us where you are.
I know you guys are in Montana, Virginia and Washington so, so far so good. =)
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2.99 on rt 1 at valero
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Most are in the 3.40-3.60 range. The one I go to is at 3.24. But then I live in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Blago and Obama (aka Illinois)
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$3.39 last night. Dunno what it is at this instant.
Maybe now I can afford to drive to the range.
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$ 3.20 in PA. Will we all go out and buy fuel guzzlers?
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$ 3.20 in PA. Will we all go out and buy fuel guzzlers?
Funny you should mention that!
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmauser98.com%2Fshortgashistory.jpg&hash=68ca2a9cc35974048ca03bc5d5cbf187263c4e7b)
You know that's what some folks are contemplating as they watch gas prices fall...
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$3.19/gal for low test here in Denver.
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The only problem with that comic, Gewehr98, is that it forgets that vehicles' gasoline efficiency rises over time.
Even today's SUV's are more fuel efficient than the family cars of the 1960's. The term 'gaz guzzler' used to imply a car with under 10 mpg milleage but today there's precisely one vehicle like that on the market, and that's the International XT. Even Hummers now get about 14. [Yes, I really hate AM General for killing the H1, but you knew that].
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2.90 @ Shell on Rte 29 in Peoria, IL
3.05-3.10 on the north side of Peoria (on top of the bluff)
3.50 in Joliet, IL, last weekend I was there.
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3.09 here in Ellsworth, WI over the border in Red Wing, MN there is a station selling for 2.75.
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$2.82 - $2.85 'round these parts
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Gas is still around $3.50 ish here and Diesel around $3.89 here
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About 3.35 a gallon here in the Eastern UP of Michigan.
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Diesel has dropped down to the price of regular in my neck of the woods -- ~$3.60. I'll be interested to see if it goes back lower than gas again or not.
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Regular is $3.47 here (eastern Oregon).
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MB, please.
I've been around far longer than you think, and not as a basement-dweller, either.
I cut my automotive teeth on air-cooled 1964-1972 VW Bugs. I got so familiar with them that my best engine-change time for a Bug was 30 minutes! I had a 1980 (German) Ford Fiesta that was a fuel miser - I miss the little bugger, actually. There were VW Rabbits, Dashers, and Scirrocos, Honda CVCCs, Datsun B210s, Ford Pintos, Chevy Chevettes, you name it. Did they have the automatic tushy-wipers of current vehicles? No. Did they have the mandated safety systems of current vehicles? No. But they were still very much fuel-efficient, and that was running with those supposedly Gawd-awful carburetors, too. Electronic engine controls? Hell no. Your foot pedal was directly attached to the carburetor's throttle butterfly and accelerator pump, and that was that.
IOW, there was indeed a plethora of economical vehicles once the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 hit (that's probably before you were even a gleam in your father's eye, I know...), as automakers cranked out fuel misers and throttled back on their land yacht production. Now it's 2008, and Deja Vu' has struck again. It amazes me that some watch in horror as the GM Tahoe/Suburban factory in Janesville, WI shuts down this December for good. Well, Duh! ;/
A 14mpg Hummer (aka, Tahoe w/codpiece) is still a bona-fide gas guzzler, any way you look at it. Even my new Jeep Liberty with 3.7L V-6 only gets about 24mpg highway, with a tailwind, cruise control on, and lock-up torque converter engaged.
The truly sad part is that I can guarantee people will see the current drop in oil prices as an excuse to go out and buy a mobile zip code of a vehicle, not realizing that their jobs that pay for such luxuries are still very much at risk until the economy settles out.
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Even my new Jeep Liberty with 3.7L V-6 only gets about 24mpg highway, with a tailwind, cruise control on, and lock-up torque converter engaged.
That's only 1 mile per gallon better than a first-gen VW Rabbit as you referenced could get at optimum.
Now, I'm not saying your analysis is wrong. I'm just saying that it's more complex than that, because not only do prices rise and fall, but engine technology improves over time.
The original VW bug could get 32.5 miles per gallon at best. The New Beetle gets 38 MPG combined and 42 highway.
The old Scirocco which you so fondly referenced – that used to get 39 miles per hour according to company info, and fanboy forums state some guys managed to push it over 42. The Scirocco II, which is out this year? That gets 55 miles per gallon.
A similar progresssion has occurred with four-wheel-drive vehicles and 'big cars'.
And again, I am not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it's more complex.
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The old Scirocco which you so fondly referenced – that used to get 39 miles per hour according to company info,
Holy crap, that's FAST! =D
Regardless, a gain of only a few mpg over the course of 30+ years ain't exactly breathtaking, in my book.
The fact that we've regressed from our fuel economy strides, not just in technology but consumer trends, is what's ironic.
I feel it ties in with the folks who bought more house than they needed with an ARM that came back to bite them in the posterior.
Mommy needs a Suburban to haul her gaggle of crotchfruit to and from soccer practice and Chuck E. Cheese. Oh, Noes, gasoline went over $4.00/gallon, what will she do?
So now that crude dropped down to $80/barrel, we're supposed to believe that it's easy street again? Not even. ;/
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Okay, I nerded out and looked at the EPA report, Light-Duty Automotive Technology and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 Through 2008. While there's way too many tables for me to rapidly make sense of it all, there is a shiny graph there that shows the increase of vehicle average fuel economy over time. It appears an average 2005 truck eats less gas per mile than an average 1975 car, and that cars have become more popular as compared to trucks around the time the new oil crisis hit.
Which confirms my theory (which is not really mine) that both are true - people buy fuel-efficient vehicles when fuel is expensive and return to shiny vehicles when price falls, but the progress in engine technology means that fuel efficiency grows in the long run to ensure that a 2020 SUV will probably eat less fuel than a 2001 HippieMobile Special.
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$2.79 for 10% Ethanol, Ames, IA
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we have a few stations at 2.99 here, but most are in the 3.15-3.25 range.
Chris
Lowest I spotted today between home and Cox Farms was $3.02. We didn't need gas in the ESV, but I told the wife if I see it under $3.00 we're stopping anyways.
And for those counting, yes, Mtnbkr and I are in Northern Virginia.
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$3.51/gallon this morning near my house (Tennessee). Almost a month after the hurricane and there are still supply issues with Colonial and Plantation pipelines. Getting a bit tired of this. Earlier in the week, half the stations didn't even have any gas.
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$2.78 for 100% gas in Kansas City, MO
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$ 3.20 in PA. Will we all go out and buy fuel guzzlers?
I bought my boat when gas was $4 a gallon.....3.20 a gallon will seem like a deal..... :laugh:
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Still over $3 a gallon at most stations around here, but creeping ever lower.
Should be below $3 in general in a week or so.
I'm having dinner with Mtnbkr and family this evening, and it's below $3 a gallon at a couple of stations near them.
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I'm having dinner with Mtnbkr and family this evening, and it's below $3 a gallon at a couple of stations near them.
Keep your eyes open.....Abby's got backup these days.....
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It's a CARTOON, MicroBalrog, and it accurately portrays the limited American memory on this like this.
Laugh at it.
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Keep your eyes open.....Abby's got backup these days.....
Fortunately Emily's not quite coordinated enough yet to make a good ambush partner for Abby...
Where's Cox Farm? Produce type farm? Apples?
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$2.90 at Coit and the Bush in Planoish TX.
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Fortunately Emily's not quite coordinated enough yet to make a good ambush partner for Abby...
She can still make a good distraction, though.
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$3.06 in the Lexington, Ky area.
Is a gas actually getting cheaper or is the the dollar just getting stronger?
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$3.25 to $3.45ish in the Mid-Willamette Valley, OR. Goes down a few pennies about twice a week.
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Just under $4 here in my little ol' town.
Cheaper in the nearby bigger cities by about 20-30 cents usually.
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Is a gas actually getting cheaper or is the the dollar just getting stronger?
It depends ... is the glass half-full or half-empty ? :laugh:
I'm actually thinking of trading off the '91 Suburban for a slightly newer extended cab pickup, regardless of gas prices either way. We need at least one full-size 4wd out here in the boonies, and a pickup would be much more useful now that the kids have moved out. My old 2wd pickup is great in the summer, when it isn't raining or when I need to get up on a steep hill to get firewood. =| Likewise, the car sits in the garage when it is muddy or snowy. It's really only useful for long trips or for making a "quick" trip to town for doctor/dental appointments.
Last week we hauled 850 pounds of roofing material (along with the usual groceries and stuff) back from town in the old Suburban. You can't do that with a little car. I suppose people see one or two of us in the Suburban and think that is bad, but don't see that it is level full up to the bottom of the windows from the two bucket seats all the way back to the panel doors :rolleyes:
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$2.63/gallon in Franklin, Indiana.
Franklin is approximately a half-hour South of Indianapolis.
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I spotted $2.97 for regular this evening. It had been as high as $4.39 just a couple of months ago.
If this doesn't convince everybody that gasoline prices are being artificially manipulated, nothing will. It's the same crude oil coming out of the same oil wells and being sent on the same ships to the same refineries. It still costs pretty much the same to pump it, pipe it, ship it, cook it, and distribute it. So how can the basic rules of supply and demand explain how the price gradually ramped up by about 33 percent over a period of about six or eight months, and has since dropped by 33 percent over a period of about two months (or less)?
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$3.06 at Costco in Winchester, VA. $3.19 in Martinsburg, WV and $3.15 up in Gettysburg, PA.
Seen E85 for $2.85 up by Gettysburg too. My F-150 is flex fuel so I could use it if I want to. But, whats the sense in saving a couple of bucks using E85 when I'm loosing gas mileage with that stuff anyway?
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Enjoy it while you can, guys. I just read that OPEC's going to emergency talks ....
Here you go...http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081009/D93N6TR80.html (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081009/D93N6TR80.html)
OPEC to hold emergency meeting on oil prices
Email this Story
Oct 9, 4:48 PM (ET)
By STEVENSON JACOBS
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NEW YORK (AP) - OPEC said Thursday it will hold an extraordinary meeting Nov. 18 to discuss how the widening global financial crisis is affecting oil prices, a move that could lead to a coordinated production cut in a bid to halt crude's steep losses.
In a statement published on its Web site, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said it's concerned about how the crisis is hampering global economies and world oil markets. The meeting will be held in Vienna, Austria.
Oil prices have fallen about 40 percent since soaring to a record $147.27 on July 11 as a global financial downturn forces people and businesses everywhere to cut back on energy use.
Analysts have predicted OPEC might use the meeting to announce a production cut in a bid to keep prices from falling further.
OPEC hinted that such a decision may be coming, saying in the statement that it would work "to ensure that oil market fundamentals are kept in balance and market stability is maintained."
Light, sweet crude for November Delivery fell another $1.85 to $86.80 a barrel in afternoon trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
There is some doubt whether OPEC can actually slow oil's decline. The cartel's decision last month to cut production by 520,000 barrels a day failed to halt the losses, which have accelerated in recent days.
OPEC members in recent days have stepped up calls to tighten production.
On Thursday, the head of Libya's national oil company, Shukri Ghanem, called on oil producing nations Thursday to cut output to "protect their interest (and) stop the loss of income."
"However, OPEC's aim is to create a balanced market, which neither harms the producers nor the importers," Ghanem told The Associated Press.
The decline in crude prices has fanned fears among OPEC members, many of whose economies are heavily dependent on oil exports.
On Wednesday, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said some OPEC members wanted the extraordinary meeting to address oil's downward spiral.
OPEC previously had not planned to meet until Dec. 17 in Algeria.
__
Associated Press writer Khaled El-Deeb contributed to this report from Tripoli, Lybia.
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But, whats the sense in saving a couple of bucks using E85 when I'm loosing gas mileage with that stuff anyway?
As an E-85 driver over the last 3 years, I've discovered it depends totally on the price differential between E-85 and gasoline. Up here, when the price difference between E-85 and gasoline is 40 cents/gallon or more, then it's more economical in a dollars/mile sense to drive on the booze. Less than 40 cents/gallon difference, then stay with gasoline. I'm driving a 2.2L Flex-Fuel vehicle though, so YMMV.
Of course, OPEC can only drive at worst about 15% of the cost of each gallon of E-85, though...
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If fuel drops low enough to reverse the current hit that big SUV resale has taken, I'll have to re-jigger my calculations and plans.
Sometime after May 2009, the jfruser family will likely pick up a used Ford Excursion with the 7.3L turbodiesel. The fuel and economic climate have killed the resale on the beasts. Four door diesel pickups are doing better, resale-wise, due to their greater utility in construction, oil, etc.
My wife will graduate at that time and we will no longer hemorrhaging cash for school, but she will bring in part-time cash. IOW, it is (somewhat) independent of gas price fluctuations.
Average year 2000 samples are retailing in the $6K range, low-mile cherry examples up to $8K range. That is retail.
It will replace two of our current three vehicles (1995 Nissan Altima, 110K miles ; 1997 Nissan Ext cab PU, 155K miles ; will kep 2004 Honda Element ). All three get 20MPG city, using the 10% ethanol crap. The pickup can not legally transport the kids. The gas V10 Excursions get ~10MPG and the diesels ~15MPG city, according to owners*. I will not buy a gasser.
Unlike Tallpine, our kiddos are in-house and growing. Insuring one less vehicle will come close to making up the 25% fuel economy hit**. It will also simplify the garage & driveway logistics.
The Excursion will fulfill several functions: pickup truck utility (with a small trailer), people-mover, tow vehicle, & others.
Now, my people-mover preferences really drift towards the Volkswagen Jetta or Volkswagen Passat diesel wagons. Or many a BMW 3-series wagon. Thing is, they want an arm and a leg for them and all the 2009 VW Jetta diesels are already sold. I can buy a LOT of fuel for the price difference (low=$12,000 ; high=$20,000+). Enough to run the Excursion for 3-5+ years at 15Kmiles/year and $4/gal fuel. Not to mention higher insurance rates for newer, pricier rides or having to finance some portion of the vehicle cost.
The other option is a new 4-door full sized 1/2 ton pickup. They retail for low-mid $30K and have been obtainable for the low $20K at the end of the year. Their gas engines do aout the same or a little better than the 7.3L diesel. Diesels will supposedly be available in 1/2 ton PUs in 2010. I bet there will be few end-of-year 35% discounts on THOSE puppies.
The drop in resale of the big SUVs makes the diesel Excursion one of the better options for us, given our requirements.
One thing I have not taken into account is that I have started riding my bike to work (11-12 mi) on average of twice a week. Both fuel misers and fuel guzzelers consume the same amount of fuel when parked, according to my math.
* Actual claims for the V10 are "around 15MPG" and for the 7.3 diesel, "around 20MPG." My "bullshit discount" brings likely reality down to 10 & 15MPG, respectively. Too many folks exaggerate how quickly they traveled from point A to B and also the milage they get on their vehicles.
** Given $4/gal fuel and the amount we drive (according to the insurance estimate I got form my agent). Yes, I have plugged it into a spreadsheet.
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I just filled the wife's car up at the Wal-mart in Wylie, TX for 2.95/gal.
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I just filled up at $2.44 at the Valero on Wildcat in Portland TX.
Drive to the Corpus southside and its $2.79 at the Valero on the corner of Saratoga and Cimarron while the Exxon across Saratoga is $2.89. Never seen such variations before.
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Fortunately Emily's not quite coordinated enough yet to make a good ambush partner for Abby...
Where's Cox Farm? Produce type farm? Apples?
Its off Braddock road. Really cheesy corn "maze", hay ride, slides, stuff for the kiddies. I think they produce some farm stuff, but not sure how much.
Paid $2.99 a gal today about 2 klicks from the house. Filled up the ESV and it didn't seem like prison sex for the first time in awhile.
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I never thought I would be happy to see gas at $3.17, but it was.
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FWIW, I live right next to Lambert Airport, and there's a gas station within a five-minute's walk of my house, where cars are constantly going to and from the airport. It's surrounded by hotels, rental car lots, and long-term parking garages. It is usually about ten cents higher than gas stations just a mile or two further out from the 'port. The other day, it was 3.32 there, while everywhere else it was 3.17. I often wish Riley could live here. That sort of thing would drive him berserk. =D
Filled up the ESV and it didn't seem like prison sex for the first time in awhile.
:laugh:
And I think you meant corn "maize."
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It was 2.83 at noon, Texarkana, TX. It was 2.75 at 4 PM.
Yep. I filled the tank up with the 2.83 price in effect. :laugh:
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It dropped here after my initial post, too. It's down to $3.44.
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"And I think you meant corn "maize."
No, he meant a maize maze...
As for gasoline and how it's priced...
Remember, gasoline is a commodity that is traded SEPARATELY from crude oil, the same with any number of other distillates, such as home heating oil.
You don't buy a barrel of crude oil, and that sets the absolute price for the distillates.
While it's generally true that distillate prices follow the the price per barrel of crude, that's not always the case. Good example is home heating oil. You can have a falling price of crude but a strongly escalating price of home heating oil if demand for that product goes up due to a significantly colder than estimated winter.
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At this rate, it will be free by Nov. 4. That Dick Cheney, he's a slippery devil.
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It odd yesterday.
I went over to Mtnbkr's for dinner. The gas in his area tends to be a bit cheaper than the gas in my area for some reason, so I normally tank up there.
There was a HUGE price differential from one side of his town to the other. I think the highest I saw was 3.32, while where I got gas near his house it was 2.99. And, on my way home I passed another station where I THINK the price dropped 16 cents a gallon between 5 p.m. and 10:30.
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I can't figure the price any more. Price of crude goes up and gasoline prices spike upward the same day or the day after. Price goes down and gasoline takes it good old time slowly... slowly dropping in price. That is the way it has always been.
So why was the price at the pump about the same when oil was $120 vs $150 a barrel? At that point, I gave up trying to understand the whole thing and have moved into the "price gouging" or "get what you can" point of view. Oil is a commodity. From the gasoline retailer's perspective, sometimes you win and sometimes you loose or that is the way it should be. If not, then make it a set price and don't change it regardless of the price of crude oil.
Price has not significantly changed downward in my area. It is still running about $0.50 more per gallon than it ought to be. My area typically was below the average national price consistantly until the last hurricane. Now we are higher.
The IRS is now allowing $0.58 per mile for business travel. I check the price far too rarely. Last I saw it was around $0.50. So you think you can charge your customer 50-cents a mile for a business travel.... heck no. They kick and think you are gouging them just like the oil companies. It is a catch 22 for the business owner; you just make less money.
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Yesterday in the space of about 25 miles of highway I saw gas range from 2.99 up to 3.39 with the average being in the 3.teens. Gas is falling pretty rapidly and theres no real average in my neck of the woods.
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I can't figure the price any more. Price of crude goes up and gasoline prices spike upward the same day or the day after. Price goes down and gasoline takes it good old time slowly... slowly dropping in price. That is the way it has always been.
So why was the price at the pump about the same when oil was $120 vs $150 a barrel? At that point, I gave up trying to understand the whole thing and have moved into the "price gouging" or "get what you can" point of view. Oil is a commodity. From the gasoline retailer's perspective, sometimes you win and sometimes you loose or that is the way it should be. If not, then make it a set price and don't change it regardless of the price of crude oil.
Gasoline retailers gouging customers are in the minority. This is quite simplistic, but explains the situation.
Say I'm a gasoline retailer. I have 10,000 gallons in the ground, and I paid $1 a gallon. To make a profit and pay overhead, I charge $1.25 a gallon. 10,000 x $1.25 = $12,500. Need to set aside $10,000 of that for next week's gas delivery, and pay $1250 in overhead. Leaves me a $1250 profit.
I call my distributor to arrange next week's delivery. Distributor says "Due to the per barrel prices skyrocketing, I'm going to have to raise the price $.40 a gallon."
Let's see. To buy the same 10,000 gallons of gasoline, I'll have to come up with $14,000. I could not pay my overhead from last week and not take a profit, but I would still come up short by $1,500.
Only solution to keep me out of the red is to raise the price of the gasoline I already have in the ground. Immediately.
Say gas prices fall, and I have 10,000 gallons in the ground for which I paid $1.40 a gallon, my retail price $1.65. Current price is back to $1.00 a gallon wholesale. Some of the retailers in my area have that $1.00 a gallon gas in the ground, and are selling for $1.25 a gallon. To stay competive, I am going to have to lower my prices.
If I put the price at $1.25, I will be in the red $4000 on that $1.40 a gallon gasoline. So, I lower the price, reluctantly, and try to cut my losses as much as possible.
I may not have explained it clearly, but that's why retail gasoline prices rise quickly and fall slowly.
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I find it interesting that in this area, diesel seems to be decreasing in price faster and at a greater percentage than regular unleaded. At some stations, it is approaching parity. Heretofore, it was significantly more expensive per gallon than regular unleaded. I wonder what accounts for this price drop.
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I find it interesting that in this area, diesel seems to be decreasing in price faster and at a greater percentage than regular unleaded. At some stations, it is approaching parity. Heretofore, it was significantly more expensive per gallon than regular unleaded. I wonder what accounts for this price drop.
Maybe:
Economic slowdown = lower retail sales = fewer truck miles for goods delivery = less diesel consumed = price dropping rapidly?
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One of the stations that was 2.99 yesterday is 2.89 tonight.
Chris
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It was $2.52 in Rich Hill, MO when I went through this afternoon.
I heard it was $1.99 at a station in Topeka,KS for a promotion.
I don't think we will see it below $2.00 around here again.
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Currently $2.59 here in Wichita, KS last I checked. Came back from Oklahoma City, OK where gas was $2.49. It's crazy, gas seems to be dropping a few cents each day.
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Oh, it's crazy. But it's a good kind of crazy.
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Not complaining here, =D
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Not sure about Fuel, but I have info from some reliable sources that oil is going down to the $35 per barrel area.
How or why I have no clue.
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I'm not sure if anyone from CA chimed in, but the lowest price I've seen is $3.43 gal. as of yesterday.
It was $4.69 gal. not too long ago.
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I'm not sure if anyone from CA chimed in, but the lowest price I've seen is $3.43 gal. as of yesterday.
It was $4.69 gal. not too long ago.
Y'all [ahnold]Kall-ee-forn-ee-ah[/ahnold] folks pay for your good weather through the nose.
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Y'all [ahnold]Kall-ee-forn-ee-ah[/ahnold] folks pay for your good weather through the nose.
...Good... weather? Are we talking about the same California here?
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Y'all [ahnold]Kall-ee-forn-ee-ah[/ahnold] folks pay for your good weather through the nose.
True, true. =(
...Good... weather? Are we talking about the same California here?
Did you not know that the sun revolves around us Californians, as well as much of the universe?
:laugh:
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$2.96 this morning in Fredericksburg, VA. I hope it continues this trend, as I'm driving 800 miles on Friday.
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Did you not know that the sun revolves around us Californians, as well as much of the universe?
I do not normally refer to 39-degree-Celsius weather as 'good'.
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I do not normally refer to 39-degree-Celsius weather as 'good'.
Where are you getting temps like that from? Barstow?
San Diego's right on the border with Mexico, and doesn't seem to go above 80 F=27 C (according to Weather.com's average weather graph). About the same with Los Angeles.
Oh. Fuel was 2.71 last night.
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yesteday I saw several signs out at $3.25.
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This morning the lower price is in the $3.05-$3.09/gal range here in SE TN. Prices dropped by almost $0.40/gallon in one day at this one station. Guess they got a new load of gasoline delivered. I do understand how retailers deal with price increases and decreases. But it seems to be prevalent at the refinery level too. I guess the same economics applies to the refineries as well when they are dealing with an entire tanker load of crude oil.
We are just starting to see stations with multiple grades of gasoline available now. It was only regular for about a month and as I said, many stations ran out of fuel and had none to replenish the supply since hurricane Ike hit Houston/Galveston area. I believe there was rationing going on at the distributer level. The gasoline supply problem has seemed to work itself out as of today. Just think what a nuclear attack would do to gasoline supplies?? We live in a fragile world.
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Pre-election price drops.
I've seen it in 02, 04, 06 and now in 08. Most dramatically in 04, 06 and 08.
It'll go back up in December or January after we've all been duped.
This particular drop might be slightly helped by the political climate of pro-domestic drilling, but I still suspect it's mostly November Nervousness for oil companies, refineries and gasoline distributors.
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Where are you getting temps like that from? Barstow?
San Diego's right on the border with Mexico, and doesn't seem to go above 80 F=27 C (according to Weather.com's average weather graph). About the same with Los Angeles.
Oh. Fuel was 2.71 last night.
I've sen San Diego at 108 during the Santa Annas.
Gas was $2.499 in Durant, OK last night. It's $2.549 here in Sherman/ Denison, Tx.
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Gasoline prices do tend to drop prior to the Nov. election. But I think it is also a period following the traditional summer driving season when use is at its maximum. So, supplies should be up coupled with the economic situation which has just about everyone with a brain nervous about the future.
Not sure about Fuel, but I have info from some reliable sources that oil is going down to the $35 per barrel area.
I can't see that happening. I could see $70 oil however. If the price dropped to the $35 area, it would be entirely due to price controls at the source in order to push public opinion away from alternative energy development which will take years to get moving. I still feel we should subsidize the development of coal gasification and oil shales technology for the future security of our country.
All that needs to happen is some world wide event and oil spikes. What if no oil was flowing except our domestic product? The USA and the world runs on petroleum and we need to ensure that we have alternatives should the worst happen. The recent stock market woes in the last month would be nothing if there was no oil. We need to protect ourselves. I also see no problem with buying worldwide as long as there is a regular supply and saving some of our resources. That is pretty much where I believe things have been for the last 20 years. It was only when world prices spiked above $100 a barrel that we heard this talk about transferring our wealth to other countries.
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Gasoline prices do tend to drop prior to the Nov. election. But I think it is also a period following the traditional summer driving season when use is at its maximum.
Yeah, but only during even numbered years. And especially so in even numbered years divisible by four.
Not so much at all during odd numbered years.
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I'll give you that one. My indoctrination is coming out on the traditional "why". During the old years, you hear that gasoline production is being cut in favor of the refineries producing heating oil for the winter months. I guess I fall back on my general suspicion of the fuel market at the retail level which is buyer beware for the most part. It was not so long ago that gasoline prices were in the $1.00-$1.20 area Then they hovered in the $1.20-$1.40 area until 1999.
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It'll go back up in December or January after we've all been duped.
Duped into what ...???
Voting for a Republocrat ? =|
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Duped into what ...???
Voting for a Republocrat ? =|
Voting for a Republocrat that isn't campaigning under a mission statement of "doing something about gas prices." You notice that the noise about that has died down? "Drill here drill now" isn't so prominent, even on the talk show circuit right now. Let alone in the nooz.
If it's not a campaign promise, neither Republicans nor Democrats can REALLY be held accountable for what happens, in their minds.
If it's high near the elections though, the first politician to make a vacuous promise will get elected over another, and he'll do something to muddle with the flow of goods.
So, the industry and speculators leave it alone around election time, and ramp it up in odd years.
I think oil futures will be a hot commodity in 2009.
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I cut my automotive teeth on air-cooled 1964-1972 VW Bugs. I got so familiar with them that my best engine-change time for a Bug was 30 minutes!
I've known people with VWs that carried spare engines, and would swap engines and rebuild every time oil-chnge time rolled around.
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I've known people with VWs that carried spare engines, and would swap engines and rebuild every time oil-chnge time rolled around.
I can understand why. My wife had a VW, wrecked it, and I bought her another. I think I spent more time working on them than we did driving them. I've had a valve adjustment last all of maybe 30 minutes ... :rolleyes:
I finally traded the surviving one for a bunch of logs. The guy I traded it to loaned it to somebody who promptly left the state with it, and was never seen again.
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I've known people with VWs that carried spare engines, and would swap engines and rebuild every time oil-chnge time rolled around.
Whatever for? I drove a VW Beetle for 6 years and never needed to change engines like that. In fact, I only rebuilt the engine that came with the car after about 2 years, then again when I burned a piston by accidentally setting the timing way too high.
I think I spent more time working on them than we did driving them. I've had a valve adjustment last all of maybe 30 minutes ... :rolleyes:
VWs were definitely labor intensive. Those little engines expanded and contracted a lot being air-cooled and with very simple systems needed more frequent tune-ups and adjustments. Mine never had a valve adjustment go out that fast, but I did adjust my valves every 5k miles (about every other oil change).
I drove mine to and from college every 2-4 weeks and to/from my parents house after college every 4-6 weeks. Those trips were about 4hrs each way. I also frequently took it on longer road trips fairly regularly. In the end, it wasn't the mechanicals that prompted me to sell it, but a rotting floorpan and a need for AC (NoVa summers and suits don't go well without AC).
Chris
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"never needed to change engines like that."
Agreed.
A friend of mine in Pennsylvania is very into Beetles, has been for many years. In 1985 I helped him go a "ground up" rebuild on his one bug, including the engine, new stainless steel floor pans, transmission, etc. (he knew what he was doing, I knew how to hand him tools and hold things!).
He's still driving that car on that engine, without another rebuild. At this point he's put nearly 85,000 miles on it.
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Also, you had to build the engine like a "Bug engine", not an American V8. That meant keeping the compression ratio lower (Gene Berg, the VW drag car guy, advocated ratios less than 7:1 for daily drivers), paying more attention to oil cooling, fuel ratios (lean is bad mmkay), etc. So much of what you see in magazines is totally unsuitable for daily drivers (c'mon, chrome on an aircooled engine?). Getting 100k out of a Bug engine isn't all that hard.
Chris
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But chrome is so bitchin' looking!
Don't make him unpimp his VW! :laugh:
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$3.19/gal for low test here in Denver.
$3.06/gal for low test, now. =)
Not too bad for four days.
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I dunno, I was always hopping up my Bug engines, from my 1100cc 6v versions to the 2100cc monster I stuffed into my Bradley GTII kitcar.
My '72 flat-windshield Super Bug was a milder 1600 Dual Port, it started life as an Auto Stick (and folks somehow think that's a new concept...) which I switched over to a standard 4-speed manual. I drove it for several years before I gave it to my sister in 1986. She had it for a long time before the Wisconsin winter salt ate through the front McPherson strut subframe. Then it was sold to a fellow VW enthusiast, who rebuilt the front end assembly - it's still buzzing around Sauk City, last I heard.
The 2100cc Bradley was a real terror, with dual Weber IDF 44mm 2-barrel carbs, high-lift, long-duration camshaft, ported heads, lightweight flywheel, Bosch 009 non-vacuum distributor, Kennedy pressure plate, oversize external oil cooler w/fan, you name it. In the lightweight kit car, it just plain boogied, and reminded me a lot of my old Porsche 914/6.
I've been jonesing to do another air-cooled Bug one these days, just because I found them fun to play with, and so easy to work on. Alas, there aren't as many Bugs out there these days for project cars...
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bought a 70 camper in 74. not good car for a kid. i went through some motors. after first fire i did onboard extinguisher. gave a pa trooper some chuckles outside york
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My Bug was hardly stock either (1700cc engine with rejetted and tuned Weber Progressive carb, header exhaust, Bosch 009, "bunch of cosmetic mods", etc), but you still had to keep in mind the constraints of the design.
Always got a chuckle out of the V8 guys who wanted to build a 2L bug engine with 10:1 compression, advanced timing, factory cooling, and run it off pump gas, yet wonder why it didn't last long.
Chris
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Oh, and we were contemplating buying another Bug just before we found out Thing 2 was on the way...
Chris
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Gotta love this...
WISCONSIN RAPIDS, Wis. - Sure, gas prices have come down lately. But to 34.9 cents a gallon? That's what Kelly Joosten and dozens of other motorists paid at a Citgo station Monday. The sign advertised $3.43 for a gallon of premium fuel, but the pump cost read $0.349 a gallon.
"That was amazing," said Joosten, who normally spends about $100 to fill up her 1998 Ford Expedition.
Joosten proudly showed off her receipt for 25.36 gallons at $8.85. She said she saw other motorists filling gas cans, too, at the discounted price.
Station owner JP Raval says the attendant on duty couldn't figure out why the station was suddenly so busy.
Raval estimated 30 to 40 customers fueled up at the incorrect price — between 200 and 300 gallons worth — for about 90 minutes.
"People kept coming, so fast," Raval said. "Everything was crowded; it was like a fairground."
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Yup. And folks who forgot to add a little bit of extra valve lash for the #3 cylinder sitting directly underneath the stock pre-doghouse oil cooler learned fairly quickly why that was needed. ;)
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Yup. And folks who forgot to add a little bit of extra valve lash for the #3 cylinder sitting directly underneath the stock pre-doghouse oil cooler learned fairly quickly why that was needed. ;)
[
that brought back a memory and was why the big aftermarket oil cooler got mounted in the right airscoop of the van
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Yup. And folks who forgot to add a little bit of extra valve lash for the #3 cylinder sitting directly underneath the stock pre-doghouse oil cooler learned fairly quickly why that was needed. ;)
I had forgotten about that.
I still have my Muir Idiots' Guide.
Chris
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Classic book.
Mine went with my last Bug. I should go to Amazon.com and get another copy.
Thanks for the reminder, Chris!
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If I can find mine, I should take a picture of it. It's in rough shape, held together with duct tape, covered in greasy fingerprints, and overall abused. :D
Great book though, not only useful as a reference, but entertaining to read.
Chris
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Well, I must say we had a lot of "fun" with VWs ... =|
The one I bought to replace the wrecked one had a rusted out undercarraige - jacked up the front end one time and the wheels/axle stayed on the floor. I put some big bolts and multiple layers of big washers to hold it together - for a while. One evening a few months later we ended up out in a field after the steering gear parted company. :O
So - I un-wrenched all 9000 or so bolts that hold the body to the pan on both cars, and put the still good pan from the wrecked one under the one with good body and glass.
Before I bought the replacement car, we drove the wrecked one minus doors and windows all over the national forest for a summer :cool:
The one thing VWs are really good for is making dune buggies. They run cooler and it is easier to constantly work on them that way. If you get stuck, you can just pick it up and carry it for a while =D
I had a neighbor that replaced a clutch (or something?) on their dune buggy, and when he got done he had four speeds in reverse and one forward :rolleyes:
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I had a neighbor that replaced a clutch (or something?) on their dune buggy, and when he got done he had four speeds in reverse and one forward :rolleyes:
French conversion, huh? =D
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my oldest bug predated hydraulic brakes had rods with threaded ends. a real art to adjusting them. an art i never mastered.
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$3.06/gal for low test, now. =)
Not too bad for four days.
$3.02/gal now, it dropped four cents over the day.
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$2.89 and more stations here and $2.69 at Costco.
Chris
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I paid $3.09 in Aurora, IL today.
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I saw $2.80 in the Southlake, TX area.
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$3.83 unless its dropped today.
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On my commute to work this morning -
$2.77 at Valero on I-20 and Seagoville Rd.
$2.25 at Fina off Hwy 175 and Jim Miller Rd (I think)
$3.05 at Exxon off 75 and Haskell exit (1a)
This is all in the Dallas area.
Saw $2.35 at the Valero in Forney. Hwy 80 and CR 740
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It's not going to be pretty if it gets below $2... :lol:
"WOOO! FILL THESE CANS, TOO...I NEED MORE CANS! DUMP OUT MY LATTE, FILL THAT CUP! FILL THE TRUNK! YES, FILL THE TRUNK!"
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I'm getting a lot of enjoyment from people in my neck of the woods (remember I live in liberal land) who went all panicky (or else Eco-Hipster, I still can't figure out which one) dumping perfectly good and serviceable vehicles at fire sale prices so they could buy Priuseses and smart cars because gas was gonna be $100 a gallon.
Now they've both spent WAY more money on the loss from selling their old car and the price of buying a brand new one, than they would have spent putting $4 a gallon gas in their old car over ten years. Plus of course they've increased their carbon footprint by getting rid of a pretty new car to get a brand new car. I feel almost as smug as a Prius driver. :laugh:
Sort of the reverse of "gas is cheap, I need an H3". People are funny. :)
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"WOOO! FILL THESE CANS, TOO...I NEED MORE CANS! DUMP OUT MY LATTE, FILL THAT CUP! FILL THE TRUNK! YES, FILL THE TRUNK!"
And that reaction is why it's unlikely to actually get below $2.
As the price drops, people will stop conserving as much - they'll drive more again, stop batching trips, the market for SUVs will loosen, the market for hybrids will drop, etc...
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Finally dropped below $3.00 ($2.999) at one station in my neck of Fairfax.
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Holy Moly! Last night, headed out of town regular was at $3.29. Coming back 3 hours later, it had dropped to $3.09!!!
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$2.97 here.
Dunno if it'll go any lower, but I see OPEC is holding meetings to get their profits back up again.
As JamisJockey already illustrated for us, there will be people thinking that the good times are back.
The local GMC dealership has a buttload of huge FSPs still sitting there, getting flat spots on their tires.
The prices on the windshields have been slashed several times, so maybe with the (temporary) drop in gas prices some will be suckered into buying them?
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Right now, $2.51 a gallon is the lowest in the Indianapolis area.
http://www.indygasprices.com/index.aspx?s=Y&fuel=A&area=All+Areas&tme_limit=48&site=Indy&srch=0&list=0
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It has been less than a week from my first post. In that time, unleaded regular is now selling within the range of $ 3.17 to $ 3.30 per gallon. This is a drop of about 13 to 20 cents per gallon.
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In my area, the drop has been in the $0.50-$0.60 per gallon in the last week.
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I got E10 for $2.979 at the ARCO in Sedro-Woolley on the way home from hunting yesterday. The ARCO nearest my house is ~$3.199 earlier today. All the other stations are running $0.10-30 higher.
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It's not going to be pretty if it gets below $2... :lol:
"WOOO! FILL THESE CANS, TOO...I NEED MORE CANS! DUMP OUT MY LATTE, FILL THAT CUP! FILL THE TRUNK! YES, FILL THE TRUNK!"
and me with a 275 gallon tank sitting empty. plus a bunch of drums. i wonder if i have enough stabil
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It's dropped nearly a dollar in the past week-and-a-half here. It was 3.43 not too long ago and it's 2.58 down the street now. I was going to fill up, but it keeps dropping, so I figure I'll do it later.
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I was going to fill up, but it keeps dropping, so I figure I'll do it later.
Every single last person I've talked to in person has said essentially the same thing. I wonder if that's what keeps the price dropping...
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Every single last person I've talked to in person has said essentially the same thing. I wonder if that's what keeps the price dropping...
I figure that most people, even conserving, can't go more than a week or so between fillups. In my case, assuming a fillup becomes an option at a half tank down to E, that's a difference of only a couple days.
I think the real reason is that a number of wells ended up opening/increasing production due to the high price motivating companies to do it, plus the price shock actually got americans conserving gasoline. Demand dropped, supply levels rose, natural economic controls drop the price.
- Filled up at $2.89 two days ago, was $2.99 that morning, now it's $2.79.
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$2.90 now. =D
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$2.89 at the station near my house. That's the lowest I've seen in Fairfax so far.
"I figure that most people, even conserving, can't go more than a week or so between fillups."
Now that my job is so close to my house (about 2.75 miles one way), a full tank of gas can last me nearly a month depending on how much extra running around I do.
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$2.87/gal. I went ahead and filled my (only half-empty) tank back up.
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I finally filled up at $2.49 yesterday. What a relief! It was only $25 to fill up my car.
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Saw it at 2.99 here in the El Paso area.
Wife said it was 2.32 in Tulsa when she left Thursday.
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So where is this cheap gas we had back in December?
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It's cheaper here now than it was in Dec, and a few weeks ago, diesel dropped below regular which I haven't seen in a long time. We're much higher than the national average though, so it might be some local / regional adjustments.
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So where is this cheap gas we had back in December?
It's been burned by selfish, evil consumers, and it's carbon footprint is currently stomping on Mother Gaiea's neck. :laugh:
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It's still ~$1.60/gal for gasoline here in Denver. =)
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$1.89 here was down to $1.61 15 days ago and was down to $1.35 back in December.
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It's still ~$1.60/gal for gasoline here in Denver. =)
No one likes you PTK, with your cheap gas and your plentiful buffalo..... :mad:
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No one likes you PTK, with your cheap gas and your plentiful buffalo..... :mad:
Go back your wizards.
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The average range here north of Seattle is $ 2.07 to 2.15. I see some outliers down to $ 2.03 and up to 2.25.
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Go back your wizards.
Wha? (We need a puzzled smilie)
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Wha? (We need a puzzled smilie)
Dungeons and Dragons
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Did you mean "Go back to your wizards"? Which stills seems a bit of a non-sequitor when I'm talking about how I envy a guy who lives in a state with a lower cost of living than I do.....
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No one likes you PTK, with your cheap gas and your plentiful buffalo..... :mad:
What, no crack about the plentiful lolitas, too? =D
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What, no crack about the plentiful lolitas, too? =D
1. Married. 2. I'm no pedo-necro-furry like you. :P
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Did you mean "Go back to your wizards"? Which stills seems a bit of a non-sequitor when I'm talking about how I envy a guy who lives in a state with a lower cost of living than I do.....
means leave poor furry lovin' PTK alone.
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Yeah.
Leave him alone.
He's busy working on integrating the "Cleaning Chickens" phrase into a come-on line right now. =D
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He knows I'm just joshin. :)
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I resemble that remark.
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You can't fool us. You resemble a monkey.
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I would say I missed his rabbit avatar, but I've stolen it for my own a bunch of other forums.
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He knows I'm just joshin. :)
Yes, indeed I do. Balog would be welcome to share a meal were he out in Denver someday. =)
Yeah.
Leave him alone.
He's busy working on integrating the "Cleaning Chickens" phrase into a come-on line right now. =D
Laugh all you want, one (Sarah) finds hunting erotic. =D
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When/if I leave WA Colorado is way way on top of my list of places to go to. I may take you up on that in a few years PTK. :D
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I would say I missed his rabbit avatar, but I've stolen it for my own a bunch of other forums.
Identity theft strikes again. :O
And I resembled that remark because my name am Josh. I don't mind being told that I resemble a monkey. Brings back childhood memories; every time my Dad saw a picture of a monkey/ape - "Hey, it's Josh!"
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Identity theft strikes again. :O
And I resembled that remark because my name am Josh. I don't mind being told that I resemble a monkey. Brings back childhood memories; every time my Dad saw a picture of a monkey/ape - "Hey, it's Josh!"
... Wow, my dad did the exact same thing, except I'm not named Josh. (And neither is my sister).
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$3.34 this morning on the way to work. I wonder if will drop another dime by the weekend.
BTW
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldaffairsboard.com%2Fattachments%2Fland-forces%2F15208d1247204376-indian-army-vs-american-army-necropost-kitten.jpg&hash=c86e620c8cd3686a0ec7179ee59f7d91b6b016d9)
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It was 3.11 here, about a week ago. (St. Louis County)
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$3.63 today at the downtown Arco in Corvallis.
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3.28 in the burg
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Was $3.51 here (S.E. Minnesota) a few days ago, but back up to $3.59 yesterday. I didn't see the prices today cuz I bicycled and there are no gas stations along that route.
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Say $3.39 here in KC.
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$3.63 today at the downtown Arco in Corvallis.
$3.59 at the Arco at the Hwy. 34/I-5 junction. The Shell and the Chevron across the highway from the Arco came down two cents to $3.77 yesterday. That's the first movement in about four weeks.
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$ 3.71 this morning at the Safeway near my house. $ 3.99 at the Chevron and $ 3.89 at the Shell a mile down the road from the Safeway.
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I paid $3.37 in Indy last week (Harding St, off 465, several Truck plazas. Lowest Gas Prices in Indy)
Don't know what it is up, here as I haven't been able to get out the last two days. And haven't needed to buy any (1999 Saab 9-3, 33.4 MPG on the return trip from Indy)
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Low? Hahahaha...that's rich.
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$1.80 is low. $3.xx is definitely NOT low.
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Even my new Jeep Liberty with 3.7L V-6 only gets about 24mpg highway, with a tailwind, cruise control on, and lock-up torque converter engaged.
That aint bad at all- its about what my 14 year old gran prix daily driver gets on a good day. Of course my car is more green because it has a lot more recycled parts on it :lol:
Seriously, technology has gotten a lot better. I am still amazed at the engine in our trailblazer- 4.2L straight 6 that puts out 275HP and gets 21 mpg on road trips. I've owned a 1/2 dozen v8 and v6 sedans over the years and other than the pontiac, none of them got that kind of gas mileage.