Author Topic: Anyone familiar with wireless web access (Read 4554 times)

chaim · « **on:** January 06, 2006, 04:50:39 AM »

I got a laptop for Chanukah and it is my first "modern" laptop with wireless access. I have an older laptop which doesn't have the same features. I have some questions.

I am getting a couple wireless web signals from home. They seem to be always open networks since I can access them through Internet Explorer without accessing my internet provider. It seems to work like my parents' cable internet connection which is always on. I'm guessing I must be receiving a signal from a neighbor's connection or from a local business.

What is the "netiquette" or web ethics on this? Is it normal for people to access on any network that works? Do some of these wireless providers charge per minute? Also, what is a "hotspot" and is it possible that this is what I'm receiving at home and not a neighbor's signal? What are the security ramifications of using these signals?

I'm considering buying web based broadband access for ethical reasons, to provide a stronger signal (sometimes the signals I do get drop out), and because a quick internet search seems to show a few providers (like "Boingo" for instance) that cost less per month than my dial up. Which companies are good? What hardware and technical know how is needed to set it up? What is the typical range of a home wireless set-up?

Thanks everyone in advance for your help.

garyk/nm · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2006, 05:15:19 AM »

Chaim,
Congrats on the new toy! I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Some localities and businesses provide wireless access for all to use. Ask at a local computer store to see if this is the case. No need to buy access if you already get it.

Dave Markowitz · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2006, 06:05:35 AM »

Chaim,

You will run across A LOT of wireless access points that are wide open and will allow anyone to connect. Usually, this is due to the owner not knowing that a default, out of the box setup provides no security. Many people are thus able to freeload on their neighbors' DSL or cable connection.

A "hotspot" is simply an open access point intended for use by persons other than the owner. Some hotspots are wide open, i.e., free to use. Others require you (via a web redirect) to accept their terms of service, but are still free. Yet others require an authenticated login and cost $$ to use.

Yahoo among other sites will allow you to search for hotspots in a particular area, and let you know if they are free or require an account.

If you end up getting your own Internet account at home and setup a wireless access point, make sure you follow the instructions included with the access point to secure it, to prevent unauthorized users from using your connection. It's not hard.

Ben · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2006, 06:27:54 AM »

You'll find a wide range of philosophies regarding the etiquette of using a neighbor's open wireless. We had a thread here on the very topic not too long ago when one of the guys caught someone using lots of bandwidth on his connection.

I guess there's two basic schools of thought on the subject:

1) The connection is open, so it's an invitation for anyone to use it, just like at Starbucks.

2) Just because I leave my front door unlocked, does that give you the right to enter my home without knocking?

chaim · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2006, 06:33:51 AM »

I've done a little more research in the past hour or so. In addition to specifically wireless providers it appears that I can set up a wireless router on my parents' cable hookup (I do currently live with my parents).

What are the advantages of going one way v. the other (i.e. setting up a cable modem with a wireless router so I can access that anywhere in the home with my laptop v. getting a wireless provider that is specifically wireless)? It seems there may be more hardware needed with at least some dedicated wireless providers (at least one local provider requires an antenna on your roof). Cost seems about the same (well, in a few months to a year when I move back out, right now the monthly fee for cable is free for me as my parents already pay for it), ~$30-40/month for most (the $21 plan from Boingo appears to only allow hotspot access). Which can be faster? Which is harder/easier to set up? How about range, will one system be more likely to have blackout spots within the home or will both likely provide coverage throughout a house and maybe into the yard (it would be nice to access the web from the screened in porch when the weather is nice)?

When I move back out I was considering using DSL. Can you also set up a wireless home network off of DSL (I doubt it since it is basically broadband dial up) or only off of a cable hookup?

BrokenPaw · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2006, 07:23:42 AM »

Chaim,

You can set up a wireless home system off of DSL or Cablemodem, or even off of standard dialup, if that's what you want. If your parents already have cablemodem, you might as well just set up a wireless access point (and secure it, as others have pointed out) and piggyback off of their broadband connection.

-BP

mtnbkr · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2006, 07:28:42 AM »

Quote from: BrokenPaw

Chaim,

You can set up a wireless home system off of DSL or Cablemodem, or even off of standard dialup-BP

FWIW, I evaluated a wireless access point a few years ago designed for dialup. You configured it with your dialup account info and plugged it into the phone line. It worked as advertised, but I never saw them in stores. Probably too late to be useful as broadband was becoming commonplace.

Chris

BrokenPaw · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2006, 07:45:50 AM »

mtnbkr,

It never occured to me that they might actually have a product specifically designed to do that, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. My home wireless networks have always been "roll-your-own" affairs; even now, with DSL, I don't use a specific wireless-and-DSL router; I have a linux box dedicated to being my wireless AP. It was really fun when I had 3 DSLs into my house, and two separate WLANs. Now it's all boring with only one of each.

-BP

mtnbkr · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2006, 07:57:54 AM »

I had never considered such a device either. It was part of a product evaluation set from a company who wanted some .gov biz. One of my business development guys acquired the set for me.

I think I have the tiniest home network of any IT drone around. I have a PC, a neglected Linux server, and a lowly Netgear broadband router.

Chris

Sindawe · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2006, 10:05:55 AM »

chaim, if you're planning on moving out in a year or so, I suggest you just add wireless to your parents setup, then install some usage monitoring like OnelineEye Pro (http://www.pmasoft.net/) to YOUR machine, and pay your parents for any extra usage you incure that is above what they contract for. Less hassle than trying to move YOUR account when you move out.

Phantom Warrior · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2006, 03:03:45 PM »

Quote from: BrokenPaw

You can set up a wireless home system off of DSL or Cablemodem, or even off of standard dialup, if that's what you want. If your parents already have cablemodem, you might as well just set up a wireless access point (and secure it, as others have pointed out) and piggyback off of their broadband connection.

Do that. It's simple and a router will run you about $50. My suitemates and I use this,\. Two of us connect wirelessly from the next room over and one guy connect directly to the box. It works beautifully and is simple to set up. I got mine at the PX for $40.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2006, 05:56:45 PM »

Let me add one thing: If you plan on using VPN, especially IPSEC VPN, do not use DLink. They are completely unsuited for that task. The best choice is Netgear, then Linksys (though Linksys has problems as well).

Chris

DrAmazon · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:08:53 AM »

Make sure that you have good firewall protection before using any wireless network. I also don't ever do any web surfing involving credit card purchases or online banking over the wireless unless I'm very certain about the security level of the network. My former employer had a very secure wireless setup, which I loved. My current employer's approach to security is much looser, so I'm careful what I do over it.

www.freewireless.com has a list of places with free wireless hotspots. They are very common at independent coffee houses. Panera bread has free wireless at all of their stores and seem to welcome me whenever I get lunch and camp there all day working. Many hotels have it too. Once or twice while on trips I've needed internet access to make hotel reservations/look up directions/phone #s etc and I've been able to use a hotel signal in the parking lot from my car.

bermbuster · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:33:43 AM »

Quote from: DrAmazon

.....
www.freewireless.com has a list of places with free wireless hotspots. They are very common at independent coffee houses. Panera bread has free wireless at all of their stores and seem to welcome me whenever I get lunch and camp there all day working. Many hotels have it too. Once or twice while on trips I've needed internet access to make hotel reservations/look up directions/phone #s etc and I've been able to use a hotel signal in the parking lot from my car.

The local municipal airport had added free wireless broadband. Goes all over the terminal, the ramp area, and the parking lot. Anyone in the local neighborhood who knows what he/she is doing can access the web. Check around your area. Some municipalities are providing it in public areas.

Old Fud · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:53:58 AM »

I just took my first laptop out of the box last night and am still trying to get it thru the initial wake-up process, so anything you say to Chaim is mighty interesting.
Unfortunately, I suspect I'm much more of a novice than he is, so I'd appreciate it if you would talk a little slower please.

Yes, the "machine" tried to tell me it sensed a wi-fi signal, which I found "most curious" in a completely residential neighborhood. Will have to check that out one of these days.

Meantime, My challenge (after getting it to wake up) is two-fold:
a) get it connected on line, and b) trying to find some way to synchronize it to my desk-top so I can cross-backup regularly.
Seems to me that this thread may take me both places.
Thanks for the help.

Fud

Calumus · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:16:43 PM »

In regards to the 2 schools of thought about using someone else's wireless network, if you already have a broadband connection in the house you might as well spend the $30-$50 on your own router, then just make sure you turn on encryption. Think about this, if it was your wireless connection that was left unsecured because you didn't know any better, you probably wouldn't notice any difference if someone just logged in quickly to check their email. However, if someone decided to just use you as their ISP and decided to download a gig worth of kiddie porn or mp3's you are going to be the one having issues with the authorities. Doesn't seem fair to me. I'll admit I have "borrowed" an unsecured network a time or two to look something up quickly or to hit mapquest when lost, but consistantly leeching off something that someone else is paying for wouldn't occur to me. Its kinda like someone siphoning your gas out of your car because you didn't lock the gas cap, and its "free" I didn't mean to rant, and I don't want you to think I'm lecturing, I wasn't trying to

I just had a lengthy discussion about this with a guy in my office this afternoon. I sold him a laptop earlier this week, and when I set it up for him we discovered that 2 of his neighbors have open networks. He's bound and determined not to pay for internet access (he only makes about $200k a year after all) and doesn't understand what a bandwidth limit is. The only broadband ISP in his area charges about $15 a gig for every gig over your monthly limit so he could actually end up costing these people money. It was a slightly aggrivating conversation to say the least. Anyway I'm done

Cheers,
Shawn

chaim · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:28:29 PM »

Quote

Do that. It's simple and a router will run you about $50. My suitemates and I use this,.

Quote

Let me add one thing: If you plan on using VPN, especially IPSEC VPN, do not use DLink. They are completely unsuited for that task

Funny I should get this endorsement and then warning on the DLink. I have Amazon open in another window where I was just considering ordering the DLink DI-524 (the same model Sindawe linked to). Right now Amazon has it for $46.99, but if I buy it before the end of the month there is a $25 rebate making it $21.99. I figure at that price it may be worth any disadvantages and simply upgrade later if I wanted to.

So, how important is VPN really?

chaim · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:30:12 PM »

Oh, as for the firewall, is the firewall built into many of these routers OK or should I buy something aftermarket? Any suggestions?

Last, how hard is it to configure these things? It has been many years since I took my networking classes and don't want to try to relearn everything I've forgotten since then.

Edited to clarify: I want to know how hard it is to configure the routers. I know firewalls range from easy to pretty complicated depending upon whose firewall (though on further thought I guess that is probably the same with the routers).

Calumus · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2006, 04:38:25 PM »

There'll be a nat firewall built into the router, if you're really concerned about security you'll want a software firewall as well. I use the free version of sygate personal firewall, and I've put it on all of my client's machines. It's easy on system resources, its very effective, and its easy to configure. You can't get it from sygate anymore since Symantec bought them, but you can get it here http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=sygate Most of the big name security suites (McAfee, Norton etc) have become bloated and can slow even the fastests machines. Good luck, and enjoy your new toy

Cheers,
Shawn

doczinn · « **Reply #19 on:** January 07, 2006, 05:38:22 PM »

Since I already have the attention of most of the computer geeks on the forum, how does Avast! antivirus stack up against the big boys?

Calumus · « **Reply #20 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:17:47 PM »

To Chaim: most routers come with a big fold out step by step set of directions. for the most part they're plug and play except for the encryption. The directions will walk you through that too. Really not a big deal.

To doczinn: I read good things about avast so I tried it. I used it for about 4 days then ditched it. 3 reasons, 1st it didn't get along with something on my system and slowed everything WAY down. 2nd scans take forever. I don't expect a full scan to take 5 minutes on a pair of 300 gig drives, but it took FOREVER. 3rd reason, and the most importent. I suspect you're asking about the free version of avast? If so there's one fairly crucial element of a good antivirus program missing from it, no script blocking. You have to upgrade to get that. For a free av program I'd recommend AVG http://www.download.com/AVG-Anti-Virus-Free-Edition/3000-2239_4-10342876.html?tag=lst-0-2 updates at least once a day, real light on system resources, and very good performance. It picked up on 2 trojans I had that both Avast, and Norton missed. I put it on all the budget systems I build for people because 1 its free

and two, it won't double your boot-up time on slower machines like Norton or McAfee will. Cheers,
Shawn

mtnbkr · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2006, 07:36:16 PM »

Quote

So, how important is VPN really?

If you plan on working from home and you plan on using your broadband connection to do so, it'll probably be via VPN.

Chris

doczinn · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2006, 09:03:16 AM »

Thanks for the info, Calumus. I'll check out that other one. Avast never slowed me down and I don't care how long the scan takes, but that it would miss something might be a teensy problem.

DrAmazon · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2006, 01:03:52 PM »

I'm mostly just a user, not a tinkerer, but a friend who is a sys. admin. always used the native firewall on his Mac computers, but used 1 or 2 additional firewalls on his PC systems. It was absolutely nuts to be using his computer and watching how many times the firewalls would get "knocked on" by outsiders.

Don't know how many of you listen to Kim Komando on Saturday afternoons. I'm a Mac person so I don't know for sure how accurate her info is, but she seems to be very very security conscious.

http://www.komando.com/

Sindawe · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2006, 01:16:29 PM »

Quote

have Amazon open in another window where I was just considering ordering the DLink DI-524 (the same model Sindawe linked to).

What? Hmmm...I don't THINK I linked to a DLink router. I've only used Netgear and Linksys products here at home, with Cisco and 3Comm at work.

Quote

For a free av program I'd recommend AVG http://www.download.com/AVG-Anti-Virus- … ag=lst-0-2 updates at least once a day, real light on system resources, and very good performance.

Another vote for AVG here. I use the licensed version on the critical systems and the free version on my MediaPC (no important data, no financials).

News:

Author Topic: Anyone familiar with wireless web access (Read 4554 times)