Author Topic: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.  (Read 1524 times)

Desertdog

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Light-bulb ban craze exceeds disposal plans
Facts about CFLs, heir to incandescents, downplayed in government-enviro push
By Joseph Farah
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55948

Compact fluorescent lamp

WASHINGTON  As state and foreign governments enact forced phase-outs of incandescent light bulbs, consumers are being kept in the dark about the many downsides of compact fluorescent lamps, replacements being billed as an environmental and energy-savings panacea.

Across the U.S., schoolchildren are being urged to replace incandescent light bulbs in their homes, state legislatures are following the leads of foreign governments in banning the sale of the bulbs in the future and the federal Department of Energy and Environmental Protection Agency are highly recommending the switch to CFLs. Businesses like Wal-Mart are also pushing CFLs hard, as are environmental groups. But safe disposal plans and recycling centers for the mercury-laden compact fluorescent lamps, seen as the future, lag behind the hype.

So, too, does the truth about what will become mandatory, fine-imposed handling requirements for CFLs by homeowners and businesses.

(Story continues below)


While CFLs arguably use less energy and last longer than incandescents, there is one serious environmental drawback  the presence of small amounts of highly toxic mercury in each and every bulb. This poses problems for consumers when breakage occurs and for disposal when bulbs eventually do burn out.

Most consumers, even those already using the CFLs, do not realize the long-term dangers the bulbs pose to the environment and the health of human beings.

While the EPA is on the CFL bandwagon as a means of reducing carbon-dioxide in the atmosphere, which it believes contributes to global warming, it also quietly offers advice on cleanup of broken bulbs that might give consumers pause to consider dumping those incandescents any time soon.

When a CFL breaks, the EPA cautions consumers to open a window and leave the room immediately for at least 15 minutes because of the mercury threat. The agency suggests removing all materials by scooping fragments and powder using cardboard or stiff paper. Sticky tape is suggested as a way to get smaller particles. The EPA says vacuum cleaners and bare hands should never be used in such cleanups.

After final cleanup with a damp paper towel, the agency warns consumers to place all materials in a plastic bag.

"Seal and dispose of properly," says the EPA. "Wash hands."

But disposing of properly might be a tough thing to do, because CFLs should never be thrown in the trash like their old-fashioned incandescent predecessors. They need to be turned into recycling centers, which are few and far between.


Incandescent light bulb

When laws banning incandescent bulbs take effect, so do the mandatory fines on consumers and businesses that dispose of the new CFLs improperly.

Though the amount of mercury in each bulb is small  about 4 milligrams  the potential environmental hazard created by the mass introduction of billions of CFLs with few disposal sites and a public unfamiliar with the risks is great.

To address the concern, Wal-Mart announced earlier this month that its suppliers  mainly in China  have agreed to reduce the amount of mercury in the bulbs. Yet the announcement itself came as something of a shock to many consumers who were blindsided about the risks of mercury.

Mercury is probably best-known for its effects on the nervous system. It can also damage the kidneys and liver, and in sufficient quantities can cause death.

With an estimated 150 million CFLs sold in the United States in 2006 and with Wal-Mart alone projecting sales of 100 million this year, some scientists and environmentalists are worried far too many will wind up in garbage dumps.

When sufficient mercury accumulates in a landfill, it can be emitted into the air and water in the form of vaporous methyl-mercury. From there, it can easily get into the food chain.

"Disposal of any mercury-contaminated material in landfills is absolutely alarming to me," says Steve Lindberg, emeritus fellow of the U.S. Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

The answer, of course, would be recycling and disposal centers. However, it is questionable whether consumers can be counted upon to bring their burned out and broken bulbs to special collection centers voluntarily. That's why most of the laws banning incandescents also include fines for improper disposal of CFLs.

Those provisions in the new laws may be as hard to find for consumers as the fine print on CFL packaging warning them not to breathe the dust from broken bulbs. LampRecycle.org offers a good sampling of existing regulations.

Many waste centers that are set up to accept CFL recycling currently have only one collection day per year.

Consumers are discovering other downsides of CFLs besides convenience and safety issues:


Most do not work with dimmer switches

They are available in only a few sizes

Some emit a bluish light

Some people say they get headaches while working or reading under them

They cannot be used in recessed lighting enclosures or enclosed globes

Fires are seen as a slight possibility
When CFLs do burn out, they often create some smoke, which consumers have found alarming. This is a result of the plastic on the bulb's ballast melting and turning black. CFL manufacturers dismiss safety concerns.

Despite the drawbacks, Australia, Canada and the European Union have all moved to ban incandescent bulbs. California, Connecticut, North Carolina and Rhode Island, are all in the process of legislating an end to Edison's greatest invention. Even local towns and cities are getting into the act.

But the craze didn't start in Europe of Australia or Canada. It started in Fidel Castro's Cuba. His action in banning the incandescent bulb was followed up quickly by Hugo Chavez's Venezuela. Only then did the trend continue in the industrialized western nations.

Recycling experts say the solutions are at least five years away. Meanwhile, millions of consumers and green activists are being persuaded to make the switch now.

Governments may indeed be promoting a kind of lighting that is itself nearly obsolete. Fluorescent lights are nothing new. They've been around for a long time. And while they may save money, some say the public hasn't chosen them for good reasons  including, but not limited to, the mercury issue.

Some experts predict the next generation of lighting, though, is LED lights. They are made from semiconductor materials that emit light when an electrical current flows through them. When this form of light takes over, all bulbs will be obsolete. Your wall tiles can light up. Curtains and drapes can light up. Even your dining room table could be made to light up  at exactly the level you want. And the best news is  no toxic waste.

That's what is ahead in the next decade, according to some in the industry.

Nobody promoted CFLs as aggressively as IKEA. Not only does the retailer sell them, it also provides one of the very few recycling centers for the burned out bulbs. But even with a plethora of recycling centers, how will the public view the prospect of saving up dead bulbs and transporting them to recycling centers? And how about the danger of breakage in that process?

"The industry is currently aiming at totally mercury-free CFL lighting, but this is still five to 10 years away," admits IKEA.

Those who really care about this problem right now are those involved in the waste industry.

"Most agree more energy-efficient light bulbs can significantly curb air pollution, but fewer people are talking about how to deal with them at the end of their lives," explained a page 1 story in the April 2 issue of Waste News. It goes on to explain "there is no plan to address air and water pollution concerns that could develop if consumers improperly dispose of the mercury-containing devices."

crt360

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2007, 05:47:10 PM »
Am I the only one who's seen almost nothing but the old, higher mercury content, flickering, buzzing fluorescent tubes in nearly every home, classroom, workplace, hospital, and store I've encountered in my lifetime?  What's the big excitement about installing quiet, non-buzzing, much easier on the eyes, lower mercury content CFL bulbs in the few little lamps and bathroom fixtures that didn't already have them.  From what I can tell, the fluorescent bulb took over the world 50+ years ago and has been irritating us and contaminating the environment ever since.  Why complain now about the CFLs (which are actually quite tolerable)?

When I was in elementary school, the janitors threw the old bulbs from the cafeteria and classrooms in the dumpsters.  The kids never failed to find them and have large lightsaber battles.  The EPA would have had fun with that.
For entertainment purposes only.

Sindawe

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2007, 06:50:01 PM »
Quote
Am I the only one who's seen almost nothing but the old, higher mercury content, flickering, buzzing fluorescent tubes in nearly every home, classroom, workplace, hospital, and store I've encountered in my lifetime?

Nope, you are not.  I have four of the things in my home at the moment, and a small stock pile of spent tubes I will have to eventually dispose of properly.  I also have 13 of the CF bulbs running in my home, and one power CF tube over the aquarium.  I have more Hg in my mouth from the old amalgam fillings than I do from the CF bulbs in my house.  Four fillings at 500 mg/each = 2 grams of Hg, vs 13 CF bulbs at 5 mg/each = 65 mg Hg.

Source: http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/energystar/english/consumers/questions-answers.cfm?attr=4#mercury

This strikes me as just so much freaking out over nothing than anything else.  Sorta amusing that the Dental industry tells me not to worry about the old fillings, yet when my Dentist has removed other amalgum fillings, he has to to treat it as hazardous waste. 
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 06:50:57 PM »
I find the thread title redundant. 
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MechAg94

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 06:54:23 PM »
I have also found that the CFL's don't work with dimmers and I can't seem to get them to work with those day/night things you screw in under the bulb.  They always want to flicker if the connection is not 100%.  Also, some of the compact CFL's are not very bright.

Wait until the talk about the lead from handling ammunition.  Oh yeah, they probably don't shoot.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Sindawe

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 07:08:57 PM »
Supposedly there are CF bulbs that work with dimmers, but I'll be damned if I can find them.  That flicker you're seeing MechAge94 is 'prolly due to the day/night thingy having an solid state switch in it rather than a mechanical one.  We recently put two motion sensors inplace at work.  The big ceiling mount has an mechanical switch in it and runs the fluorescent fixtures just fine.  The smaller wall mount unit has a solid state switch in it and makes the lights flicker at just the right frequency to give me migranes.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

HankB

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007, 03:44:40 AM »
To dispose of old, mercury-containing fluorescents:

1. Find the name and address of the nearest politician who imposed a ban on regular light bulbs.

2. Mail the dead fluorescent to him, or just drop it off on his lawn at night.

3. Attach a short note informing him that now HE gets to deal with the result of his actions.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2007, 03:50:09 AM »
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really stupid question.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Manedwolf

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 04:15:25 AM »
The issue with mercury is that it's only mercury vapor that will wreck your brain and kill you. Mercury salts will outright kill you. Elemental mercury and amalgams will not.

You do not want to inhale mercury vapor even in minor quantities. Ever. It goes right to the brain. That's where the "mad hatter" came from, as a story bit. A number did indeed go mad from exposure to mercury vapor, enough to become a sort of societal meme, enough that Lewis Carrol was able to use one as a character people would recognize.

Quote
The chemicals used in hat-making included mercurous nitrate, used in curing felt. Prolonged exposure to the mercury vapors caused mercury poisoning. Victims developed severe and uncontrollable muscular tremors and twitching limbs, called "hatter's shakes". Other symptoms included distorted vision and confused speech. In advanced cases, hatters developed hallucinations and other psychotic symptoms.

A number of early photographers also died of mercury poisoning. And if you should get even a drop of a mercury salt solution on your skin, forget it.

So yeah...the vapor is dangerous.

MechAg94

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 05:39:24 AM »
Sindawe, I realize that.  I have had some light fixtures with day/night switches that worked fine.  My current house doesn't have those.  I have been meaning to get a motion sensor fixture for the back yard.  That ought to work well enough. 

Thanks for the info on mercury vapor.  I didn't know it was so dangerous.  I might have to rethink using CFL's in some areas where it is easy to break them.
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springmom

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 10:27:22 AM »
Let's see...no incandescents because the government will ban them; no fluorescents because of the mercury (plus the fact that people with lupus can get a flare from being under fluorescent light constantly)...

Well, heck, I like beeswax candles!   rolleyes

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K Frame

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 10:43:50 AM »
But elemental mercury will emit mercury vapor at relatively low temperatures, so it IS an issue.

The post lamp in front of my house has an electric eye sensor.

It has a GE or Phillips CFL in it, probably in the 100 watt equivilent range.

It's been there, and has lit, every day for over 3 years now.

The 13 watt on my back patio is on a switch, but I installed it around the same time and it burned for nearly 3 years 24x7x365. It's still going strong. I just turned it off recently since I've been sleeping on the couch.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2007, 06:38:29 AM »
This strikes me as just so much freaking out over nothing than anything else.  Sorta amusing that the Dental industry tells me not to worry about the old fillings, yet when my Dentist has removed other amalgum fillings, he has to to treat it as hazardous waste.
A few years ago there was a dentist in a town near me who went public with the "news" that there is mercury in traditional amalgum fillings and that it is a health hazard. It seems there is a small group of dentists who see this as a health problem. Predictably, the American Dental Association pressured the state health department to revoke the guy's license on the grounds that his treatment protocols (i.e. removing amalgum fillings and replacing with epoxy) weren't what the ADA considered "standard."

He was able to keep his license, but they made his life miserable. Back then, when I asked my dentist about it he told me that mercury/amalgum fillings are "completely safe." Nonetheless, when I told him he was not to use that stuff in my mouth, he went along with doing epoxy fillings. Fast forward a few years to last month when I had to have a tooth filled, and I asked the office manager to remind the doctor that I wanted epoxy rather than amalgum ... her response was "We only use epoxy. We haven't used amalgum for years."

Okaaaaaaay ...
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mountainclmbr

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2007, 06:41:28 AM »
One of the bathrooms in my house has a "low-flush" toilet that uses half the water of the normal toilets that are no longer legal here. The problem is that you have to flush it about four times because the flush is so weak. I wish the government would stay out of my bathroom!
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onions!

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2007, 06:42:47 AM »
So why don't we just take our dead CFLs to the dentist for disposal?

K Frame

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2007, 06:52:21 AM »
Better yet, flush them...

First generation low flush toilets were terrible.

Second generation low flush toilets weren't much better.

Today's low flush toilets are pretty good.
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Ben

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2007, 07:16:20 AM »
Quote
A few years ago there was a dentist in a town near me who went public with the "news" that there is mercury in traditional amalgum fillings and that it is a health hazard.

That's been a big thing in the liberal town where I live. The most popular and booked dentists are the ones that do the "enviro-friendly" "replace those nasty amalgams with epoxy" spiel. I talked to my dentist about it, and luckily for me he's rational. He game the the logical explanation that certainly for any new cavities, or any failed amalgam fillings, we should go with epoxy. But he said it's really counterproductive to replace perfectly good amalgam fillings for health reasons, since drilling them out is exposing the toxics that everyone is worried about.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2007, 08:09:17 AM »
As regards the low-flush toilets, I've even heard that the salvage companies in strict areas like CA do a brisk business in older "banned" high-flow toilets salvaged from wrecked buildings...people want them.

Black-market toilets!  cheesy

richyoung

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2007, 05:23:45 AM »
...the old, big toilets are called "super tankers"....
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Rocketman56

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2007, 05:28:49 AM »
Springmom:
Quote
plus the fact that people with lupus can get a flare from being under fluorescent light constantly)...

Could you provide a citation or link to that??  My wife has had lupus for many years and we were not aware of that
issue.. (Not that it would surprise either of us.. sigh..  undecided)

CFL's are going to be "a flash in the pan".. The LED lights just now leaving R&D will replace them, at a net boon
to the environment.. (They emit more light for the same energy.. Problem is availability, currently..)

Later,
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mountainclmbr

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2007, 06:01:09 AM »
I agree that LED lights will probably surpass CFL's.

Another pet peeve is the low flow faucet in the kitchen sink. Got to find out if I can easily replace it with a normal faucet. It is so slow as to be almost useless. I was filling a bucket of water for the dogs one morning before work. It was taking so long to fill that I started doing other things. The result was that I forgot about it and found the water still running when I got home from work that night. And my poor dogs had no water all day.
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Fly320s

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2007, 06:59:20 AM »
Take apart the faucet.  There is probably a restrictor ring/o-ring in there that limits the flow.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Our Government at work, the cure is worse than the problem.
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2007, 07:13:14 AM »
Springmom:
Quote
plus the fact that people with lupus can get a flare from being under fluorescent light constantly)...

Could you provide a citation or link to that??  My wife has had lupus for many years and we were not aware of that
issue.. (Not that it would surprise either of us.. sigh..  undecided)

CFL's are going to be "a flash in the pan".. The LED lights just now leaving R&D will replace them, at a net boon
to the environment.. (They emit more light for the same energy.. Problem is availability, currently..)

Later,
Steve

I've read quite a bit about Lupus (my doctor suspected I might have Lupus and sent me to a rheumatologist) and have seen many references to people with the disease, who are more photosensitive than others, having reactions to fluorescent lighting.
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