Reality hits my wife...again

[Perd Hapley]

I was really amazed by that story, until I came to this part:

Even a lawyer found such mechanations too dirty for his conscience.

Then I was stunned.

[Monkeyleg]

Fistful, I know attorneys with consciences.

They just charge more.

[Firethorn]

I think that a large part of the problem is that the system is too complicated.  A person with true needs could live quite well off of them, but with ADA, the people worst off are the mentally challanged.  The system is too complicated to really help them, and that very complication helps the leechers prosper.

It might work better if you didn't have so many programs, went with a single large assistance office in each area.  Oh, and a review board to try to pry off the leeches.  Of course, as far as I'm concerned, somebody who's not truly seriously physically handicapped or mentally retarded who's not trying to get off the system is a leech.

Oh, she speaks English.  SHe just refuses to raise her voice.  SHe says it is one of her disabilities and that UALR has to provide the interpreter so she can fully participate in class.  I am not making this up.

I would of handed her a bullhorn, or a microphone hooked into a speaker system.  There are people without voiceboxes who manage without an 'interpreter'.

[richyoung]

The main problem with making it state level is that some states are substantially better off than others.

That problem already fixes itself with respect to the mentally ill: in some northern states, the "treatment" for the mentally ill without health care is a bus ticket to Oklahoma.  If the "better off than others" states have better benefits, "they will come."

 

On a lower level, for example, New Orleans would never have been able to support their level of welfare recipients without assistance from a higher level.

...and that would have been a good thing - Katrina pointed out the absolute FAILURE of .gov to provide for or protect you in a crisis - but they WILL take your guns just when you need them the most,  (The ones that don't abandon you completely, that is....)  And they RE-ELECTED "School Bus" Nagin - the people of the Big Easy haven't learned a thing.

Personally, my interim solution would be to replace all the welfare with 'The Federal Jobs Program'.  States can run their own version if they wish, of course.  Paying less than minimum wage and being worked at least 40 hours a week, participants in the program would be provided food in a dining hall, room in a barracks/dormatory, clothing in the form of uniforms, and the cheapest healthcare I can find.  You could earn credits good for training/education, as well as 'vacation time' to extend your 'benefits' so you can transition gracefully between the program and a free market job.

Already exists - its called an "Army of ONE", and it matches your description to a tee...

[Firethorn]

That problem already fixes itself with respect to the mentally ill: in some northern states, the "treatment" for the mentally ill without health care is a bus ticket to Oklahoma.  If the "better off than others" states have better benefits, "they will come."

Agreed.

...and that would have been a good thing - Katrina pointed out the absolute FAILURE of .gov to provide for or protect you in a crisis - but they WILL take your guns just when you need them the most,  (The ones that don't abandon you completely, that is....)  And they RE-ELECTED "School Bus" Nagin - the people of the Big Easy haven't learned a thing.

I was using it as the easiest example off the top of my head.  I wasn't stating that it was a good thing, especially in NO's case.

Already exists - its called an "Army of ONE", and it matches your description to a tee...

Except that the DoD doesn't want these people.  The majority of them, even with today's looser army standards most wouldn't be accepted.  Many don't even have a GED, they have medical problems that would disqualify them, they're not in shape, etc...  

Call it what you want, the FEP, Jobcore, whatever, I'd pay them even less than an E-1 < 4 months(though we might end up giving the E1s a raise while we're at it).  My goal would be that enlisting would be a step UP for them.

The deal would be that FEP will take any US citizen, and won't fire them as long as they work their 40 hours/week.  Won't pay them worth jack.  I figured double the base prison wage.

What would they do?  Well, I'd disallow commercial operations, but work to support their needs(IE cooking in the dining facility, cleaning up), and a vague, widespread 'public good' like picking up trash.

[Perd Hapley]

There are enough people who think of the military as a jobs program without you making it explicit, rich.  The military is for killing baddies, not providing opportunities for the "disadvantaged."

[Gewehr98]

As somebody who just retired after 20+ years from what I consider a successful and rewarding military career, I deeply resent what Rich is trying to imply regarding the purpose of the military as a welfare agency.  That perception stinks on ice, period, and it makes me wonder if he's ever been in the military. Likewise, I'm rather grateful the military entrance requirements, even those I saw all those years ago at the MEPS station, would weed out those bottom-feeders that Rich would send to enlist.  Even if they made it past the recruiters and MEPS stations, I'd pity their souls after the first few minutes of a DI's nurturing care.

Barbara, as long as I draw breath, I'll never forget a scene in Sacramento, PRK where a woman rushed in to get a dozen cans of cat food, jumps in the checkout line in front of me, pulls out the appropriate amount of food stamps, then sprints to her brand-new Cadillac parked in the disabled area out front.  The cashier just rolled her eyes when I asked her if she saw a lot of that. Cat food lady obviously knew how to make the system work for her.

[280plus]

Sounds like she was eating cat food so she could afford the Cadillac...

[Gewehr98]

I've heard it might be good on crackers.

Can't be any worse than that Underwood Deviled Ham stuff they sell in the little cans, suspiciously a lot like cat food...

[Guest]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've never seen it.

If I had to guess, I'd say the foodstamps were bought, not received from the government. There are people in poor neighborhoods who will buy them at 50 cents on the dollar for cash, and lots of people will sell them..either those who need cash more than they need food at that point in time, or those who are selling the foodstamps to buy drugs.

[richyoung]

As somebody who just retired after 20+ years from what I consider a successful and rewarding military career, I deeply resent what Rich is trying to imply regarding the purpose of the military as a welfare agency.

Befoer you "resent" what "Rich is trying to imply", you need to make sure you have correctly deduced what "Rich is trying to imply".  What Rich was trying to imply is that we treat the men and women that serve this country EXACTLY like the people in the mythical "job program" were to be treated...and they deserve more.

That perception stinks on ice, period, and it makes me wonder if he's ever been in the military.

Got me there - Dad retired as a CW3, two tours in 'Nam , gunship pilot.  Me, I was never IN the Army...but I've worked for it all my life, off and on.  My current job is at Fort Sill, helping train officers, warrants, NCOs and battle staffs using computer based simulations such as JCATS, FireSim, JADOCS, JANUS, etc.  I also set up the threat (Red) offenses and defenses, and frequently control them in simulation runs.  Close enough?

Likewise, I'm rather grateful the military entrance requirements, even those I saw all those years ago at the MEPS station, would weed out those bottom-feeders that Rich would send to enlist.

I'M NOT TRYING TO ENLIST THEM - I just want our young soldiers, sailors, and airmen off of food stamps and WIC, and not prey to "payday" loan outfits, note car lots, and pawn shops - apparently I somehow miscommunicated that...

Even if they made it past the recruiters and MEPS stations, I'd pity their souls after the first few minutes of a DI's nurturing care.

I guess you haven't heard about "stress cards", or the rumored waiver of the HS/GED diploma requirement to enlist...

[Perd Hapley]

What about stress cards?  When I got out of OSUT at Benning, everybody in my new unit at Fort Hood was convinced that we had stress cards back at Benning.  My guess is it's a rumor.  Then again, the pogues had GIRLS in their Basic Training unit, so I guess anything's possible.  The only chick we saw was our armorer, and she just got better-looking every day.

[Firethorn]

I'M NOT TRYING TO ENLIST THEM - I just want our young soldiers, sailors, and airmen off of food stamps and WIC, and not prey to "payday" loan outfits, note car lots, and pawn shops - apparently I somehow miscommunicated that...

I'm afraid that you were misunderstood.

I'll admit, I did base my 'solution' upon how the military treats young soldiers/airmen/sailors/marines.  But I'd want it run like a civilian agency.  It's job is to cover the basic essentials, plus educate people, keep them used to working, keep them off the street and hopefully off of drugs*.

By my calc, an E1<4 earns about $6.87 an hour, if he only works 40 hours a week.  The trick is, he's salary, which is otherwise pretty much unheard of at that payscale.  On the other hand, housing, food, and work uniforms are provided seperatly, and medical care is provided at no additional expense.  Still, this level has only been obtained after years of raises.  Federal minimum wage was increased in 1997 to $5.15.  The E1 would have been paid $883, which would have been $5.15 with a 40 hour week.  The thing is, how many military actually only work 40 hours a week?  Basic training alone is above 60, and that's for the relativly easygoing air force.  Suddenly the new recruit is only earning $4.58/hour(and that's TODAY).  It gets even more sick during deployments, when working hours are often 80+ hours a week.  Tax free and combat bonuses don't even come close.

Yes, it's sad.  But then again, I'd only pay $1-2 for my 'jobcore'.  $40-80/week is enough to cover incidentals like shaving supplies, personal toiletries, and the occasional cheap luxury.

*While I support legalization, I also feel that if you're going to suck at the government teat, you should at least be clean.

[Gewehr98]

Stress cards?  What are stress cards?  I know about the heat stress cards they hand out to students at Goodfellow AFB when the temperature and humidity isn't conducive to hard exercise, but that's nothing like a "get out of jail free" stress card. I learned all sorts of new words from the guy wearing the campaign hat in my flight 20+ years ago, but no stress cards or diploma/GED waivers. My older stepson was given a medical discharge at the tail end of basic training in 2001, and he has no recollection of stress cards, either.  He related lots of pushups, situps, and running, but no stress cards.  When I retired this last May, the Air Force still demanded either a high school diploma or GED prior to admittance. The policy was part of the Quality Force package, the Air Force knows there are more than enough qualified recruits lined up, so they could be choosy about who they took without resorting to waivers like that. I cannot speak for the Army, Navy, or Marine Corps, I'm sure it depends on their quotas and manning levels. More than likely the stress card story is an urban legend that keeps resurfacing after the Navy dabbled in the concept momentarily, see here:

http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm

I had two airmen assigned to me from 1992-1999 who had at least 4 children each.  Both airmen were eligible for food stamps.  Neither used them, they took part-time jobs after hours to make up the difference instead. As I found out during their twice-yearly feedback sessions, they didn't want the stigma of food stamps attached to them or their families. As part of their chain of command, I did, however, deliver holiday turkey baskets to them without hesitation.  I did as much as I humanly could to make sure those two families prospered and were given what they needed, spending time with them and even fending off Sacramento Child Protective Services when one of them showed hand spanking marks on thier bottom after being caught drinking from the toilet.

One of the families separated from the service after 6 years and I lost track.  The other, I'm proud to say, has a Senior Master Sergeant as proud papa of 4 girls, the eldest of whom received a full scholarship to Florida Institute of Technology, the next oldest enrolled in Florida State University.  All 4 girls are either on the Dean's List or have received Academic Honors from their high schools. Their mom and dad now own a gorgeous, 4 bedroom, 3 bath house in Melbourne, appraised over $350K.  You wouldn't know they were eligible for food stamps not more than 10 years ago.

[Perd Hapley]

From Snopes:

For a few years during the 1990s, the US Navy did issue "stress cards" to new recruits....these cards listed names and phone numbers of resources the newcomers could contact "if things pile[d] up." The cards were strictly for informational purposes: they informed recruits of available support services.

Navy trainers began reporting that some of the recruits had taken to raising their cards while being disciplined, as a way of signalling for time out. It's unclear whether any of those enduring basic training really thought that was the purpose of the cards or whether this was just standard armed forces jackassing, but the Navy took no chances and got rid of the cards.

[Brad Johnson]

Can't be any worse than that Underwood Deviled Ham stuff they sell in the little cans, suspiciously a lot like cat food...

Hey, I like that stuff! Of course I also like creamed spinach, chicken livers, mashed turnips, and sweetbreads (and not the flour kind ).

You should try the "Potted Meat Food Product" they sell on the next shelf down. It's really good when it's spent most of an afternoon in direct sunlight on the dash of your truck on a 110 deg F day.  Put it on some stale, chewy crackers and wash it down with a warm Coke. Mmmm.   *uggghhrrffff*

Brad