Author Topic: 5sp Transmission: Rebuild locally or purchase remanned unit from Marlin Crawler?  (Read 7742 times)

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
My 1997 4Runner (198k miles) needs some transmission work.  At a minimum, it needs a bearing kit (bearings are moaning and noisy) and a clutch.  That right there is about $2k.  I also think it'll need syncronizers since the shifting is a bit notchy and rough at times.

Locally, I have quotes for all of the above work at $2500 (another shop said $2k for the clutch and bearings), but the final number could be different based on what they find inside. 

Or...

I can get a fully remanned unit from Marlin Crawler for $1300 shipped and have it installed locally for another $850 (includes flywheel resurfacing).  That's a bit cheaper than my highest rebuild quote locally and doesn't allow for any surprises inside the transmission (ie "your widget is busted, that's another $200).  The local warranties are 2yr/24k miles, Marlin's warranty is 1yr/unlimited miles.  I'll have to send my old transmission back to Marlin for the $500 core, but my price includes a shipping label back to them.

The truck runs well and starts up every time.

Chris

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Oh, the Marlin price doesn't include the clutch parts, but I can get those from them at the same time for about $300.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/transmission/rebuilt-complete/r150f

Chris


dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,934
Does Marlin have a good rep on the web?

If so, go for the rebuilt one.

Manual transmissions are pretty straight forward to rebuild.  You have the synchro frition surfaces, and sometimes the shift forks.  If there's anything elese in there bad it's usually signalled by the truck not moving.  So you're unlikely to have any major surprises.  That said a quality rebuilt one (Marlin, if they're known as a good shop) is a pretty good bet.  I've mail ordered T-5's with good success.

Do you have tools/a friend with tools?  While a rebuild is a beast, a trans/clutch swap is pretty dang straight forward and doesn't take many special tools.  Maybe save yourself $850 for the cost of a Sat and some 6 packs.

41magsnub

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,579
  • Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
The land cruiser folks seem pretty happy with Marlin crawler.  Not the same stuff, but when I get around to a front end rebuild on my rig I'll be using their parts.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Provided they have a good rep, I'd get the rebuilt one shipped to you. No surprises and if they do crap work should be easy to learn with a little Googlefu.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Marlin has a great rep and they specialize in heavy duty drivetrain components for rockcrawling Toyotas.  I'm comfortable with them.

At worst, they'll be slightly more expensive than the lowest local rebuild, but at best they'll provide a fully rebuilt transmission for the price of a partial rebuild.  Also, the price is the price. 

The shop doing the swap said they'll charge $88 to resurface the flywheel if necessary.  Marlin sells a new flywheel for $120.  I'm thinking about just buying their flywheel and having that component replaced as well.  I've been getting bad stuttering from the clutch for the past year, so I suspect I'll need the flywheel surfaced.  For the extra $30, I'll have a completely new one.

This is what I'm considering:
Flywheel, V6 3.4-liter                                  $  119.00
Heavy Duty Pressure Plate Bolt Kit                   $      7.99

Tranmission: R150F
Application: 1996-05
Gear Ratio: 3.83:1 First Gear
Refundable Core Charge: 1996-05 Core Charge        $1,739.00
Heavy Duty Clutch Kit (1,200 lb)                          $   299.00
Application: 6cyl 1996-
Shipping                                           $     55.78


Installation will be about $800.  I'll get $500 back for the core.

Chris

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Are Toyotas known for such a short tranny life?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Are Toyotas known for such a short tranny life?

Not at all, especially the manual transmission in this generation 4Runner.  I think mine was abused before we bought it.  The tow hitch had significant wear and the pay stub I found under one of the seats leads me to believe it was owned by some of the local day laborers.  I suspect they used it for towing over its rated capacity.  I probably would have passed on it, but the price was too good (savings were greater than the cost of the rebuild I'm undertaking).

That said, the clutch is at the end of its life.  A clutch job alone is $1k including parts.  While I could probably continue driving on the current transmission, it doesn't make sense to replace the clutch for $1k and not take care of the transmission issue.

Chris

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
That said, the clutch is at the end of its life.  A clutch job alone is $1k including parts.  While I could probably continue driving on the current transmission, it doesn't make sense to replace the clutch for $1k and not take care of the transmission issue.

Chris

Yeah, the clutch repair requires removing and replacing the transmission anyway.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
I've been where you are now and if I could have a do-over I'd go with the one butt philosophy.  In extensive repairs situations I want only one butt to kick should anything go wrong.  Having replaced a transmission I'd give up on saving the labor by a DIY.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
What are you talking about?  I'm not DIYing this one.  I'm buying the parts and having someone else do the work.  The shop doing the installs doesn't rebuild transmissions.

Chris

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
I'd just look at it as having the clutch replaced, and throwing in a rebuilt tranny while you're at it.   ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
i rebuilt a manual tranny once   well actually 5 times in 7 days before it worked.   never again by choice
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Azrael256

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,083
I rebuilt a three-speed manual with no synchros once.  It was complex enough.  If a transmission has more parts than an outboard motor's gearbox, I'll get somebody smarter than me to do it.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
i rebuilt a manual tranny once   well actually 5 times in 7 days before it worked.   never again by choice

I knew a fellow who rebuilt a VW transaxle (NOT me - I only swapped engines and bodies around like lego parts).

He ended up with 4 speeds in reverse and one forward  =D
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,934
Ah come on guys, how hard could it be?


(That pic is my first manual tranny teardown.  When I got it to that point there was a definite"What have I done?" moment.  Counter-intuitively, Auto's are a lot easier to rebuild.)

Yeah, if your vendor has a good rep, mailorder the rebuilt.  All things being equal the guy that specializes in Toyota tranny's is more likely to do a good job then the guy that just pulls out the manual and fixes whatever comes to the shop.

drewtam

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,985
I've never rebuilt a trans. Is it any more complicated than rebuilding an engine?

I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
I've never rebuilt a trans. Is it any more complicated than rebuilding an engine?

I've heard rebuilding a manual trans is more difficult than rebuilding an engine.  That said, even if I knew how and had all the tools, I lack the time.  As it is, I'll be scheduling this to be done while we're on vacation for a week. 

Chris

dogmush

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,934
I've never rebuilt a trans. Is it any more complicated than rebuilding an engine?



It takes more specialized tools, and usually special mounting fixtures. (I have had to fabricate at least one mount for every type of trans I've rebuilt.  I've heard that the older top loaders could be done on a bench)  You also will need a press, and a variety of fixtures for it to get bearings and races out.  I can usually rebuild an engine on a genaric Harbor Freight stand and with a socket set and torque wrench.

I'd say the average manual is more complicated then the average engine to rebild. (Excluding things likeactive fuel managment and variable cam timing.  Those sometimes get crazy.)

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
I knew a fellow who rebuilt a VW transaxle (NOT me - I only swapped engines and bodies around like lego parts).

He ended up with 4 speeds in reverse and one forward  =D

Actually, he got his hands on a production model tranny marketed to folks a ways to the south and west of their Ingolstadt factory.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
Order is placed.  Just under $2200 in parts before the core-refund.  We're looking at about $800 in labor.  That's about $2500 after core-refund for a fully rebuilt transmission (not just bearings and syncronizers like my other quote), new clutch, and new flywheel.  Probably a bit overkill, but I don't want to worry about it ever again.  I was going to have them do the clutch master/slave cylinders, but there was no labor savings in doing it at the same time, so I'll hold off and only do that if there's a need.  It doesn't look that hard (at least no harder than the same parts in a brake system), I may do it myself if necessary.

Once that's fully paid off, then I'll need to schedule a timing belt replacement.  That's about $700.  I'll have them do the water pump at the same time since you're already there, so probably $900ish total on that one.  Then there are a pile of smaller things that need doin'.  Truck's old, but runs well and I know every inch of it.  All of these jobs taken together still cost much less than a replacement.  I at least know where I stand with the vehicle, unlike a "new" one. 

My goal is to keep it as a daily driver for another couple years, then semi-retire it to "toy" status and buy a car for commuting.

Chris

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
That's still a heck of a lot cheaper than a new vehicle  =)

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,441
  • I Am Inimical
I was right, Chris.

This is "Money Spending Summer" for you...
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
That's still a heck of a lot cheaper than a new vehicle  =)
Exactly, which is why I'm doing it.  Plus, with the "new" worn off, I'm more likely to use it as a truck. :)

I was right, Chris.

This is "Money Spending Summer" for you...

Tell me about it.  At least the vacation is paid for. 

Chris

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
I picked up the truck today.  I didn't realize how much noise the old tranny was making until I drove it with the new one.  Much quieter.  Shifting is much improved as well.  While the clutch was supposed to be a touch heavier than the old one, the pedal feel is MUCH lighter.  It feels like the clutch on my old Paseo (sporty Tercel).  They went ahead and replaced the clutch slave cylinder as well since they were down there and it was the original unit.  For that they only charged me the cost of the part, but the total bill was only $10 more than they quoted originally, so no issues there. 

I'm very pleased with the shop.  Good service, good communication, etc. 

Chris