Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: roo_ster on June 24, 2015, 05:53:03 PM
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Alen West has something to say about it.
http://allenbwest.com/2015/06/out-of-8-women-in-army-ranger-school-guess-how-many-graduated/
Embedded Link:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2015/0529/All-8-women-fail-Ranger-School-Some-Rangers-say-standards-should-change-video
Looks like cadre kept the standards this go 'round. The usual suspects are making noise about lowering them, of course.
WASHINGTON — On Friday, the Army announced that all the women who had attempted to graduate from Ranger School had officially failed to meet the standards, according to a military source.
Ranger School, which grooms the Army’s most elite special operations fighting force, opened its doors to women for the first time this year. Eight of the 20 women who originally entered the school's first co-ed class were allowed to recycle through the program after they fell out in their first go-round. The Friday announcement confirmed this happened again. Three of the eight were invited to take the course over again in late June.
To many, this means the system is working as it should.
The Rangers are the best of the best, and being a Ranger means passing a physical test that pushes body and mind to the breaking point. If women can’t do it, the argument goes, then they shouldn’t be Rangers.
But there is another opinion quietly being voiced as well: that Ranger School is more akin to a rite of passage – an opportunity for men to “thump their chest,” as one Ranger puts it – than a realistic preparation for leading in war. That women can actually make Ranger units more effective. And that the standards that keep them out are outdated.
Sure, let us pass the "participation tabs" around. You go, grrrl!
We need a blood-letting in the higher ranks of the Army.
I am not sure what the nitwits think Rangers do that would make them more effective by admitting women. SOCOM and USASOC already have psyops and other such units that might make use of women.
Ranger School also showed women were innovative problem-solvers who offered fresh approaches in the field.
Let me translate: "We could find no metric that showed these women were up to standard, but I really don't want to torpedo my career so I will toss out some unquantifiable feel-good verbal squid ink to satisfy the cultural marxists now in control of the Army."
Just read the embedded article. The wishful thinking, hand-wavium, and bushwa is thick on the ground.
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But male and female differences are just cultural and stuff!
What is the point of having a Ranger school, anyway? Can't people just identify as Rangers, and be done with it?
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Last of the Women Wash Out of Ranger School
That's too bad, I'd hoped one of them would make it.
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From what I understand, the PT test isn't what failed em. They made it to the ranger standard which is quite high, and not gender specific (i think it's 70 percent in each event in the 18-21 male age group, plus the CWST and 3 chin ups)
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Ok, then the obvious question is what did fail them, if not the PT?
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Quothe Roo_ster
We need a blood-letting in the higher ranks of the Army.
I'm afraid we are too late, and we will have a blood-letting in the lower ranks. Quite literally.
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Ok, then the obvious question is what did fail them, if not the PT?
Probably being women.
I'm sure this sounds misogynist, but there's more to being able to patrol endlessly through *expletive deleted*it terrain and do all the other things at Ranger school than brute physical strength.
Women, in general, lack many aspects of toughness that men who attend ranger school tend to have. Mental toughness, the drive to continue when you don't want to... etc. THey're often not as good at making sound snap decisions under pressure while underfed and underslept.
We will never know why they washed out. They could have quit, they may have gotten peered out (which, at first glance may seem as if the men were out to get them.. but in the current climate? No male ranger candidate is gonna peer out a woman unless it's well deserved)
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Probably being women.
I'm sure this sounds misogynist, but there's more to being able to patrol endlessly through *expletive deleted*it terrain and do all the other things at Ranger school than brute physical strength.
Women, in general, lack many aspects of toughness that men who attend ranger school tend to have. Mental toughness, the drive to continue when you don't want to... etc. THey're often not as good at making sound snap decisions under pressure while underfed and underslept.
We will never know why they washed out. They could have quit, they may have gotten peered out (which, at first glance may seem as if the men were out to get them.. but in the current climate? No male ranger candidate is gonna peer out a woman unless it's well deserved)
Overall, the least misogynistic way I can think to put the entire situation is thusly:
Men, on the whole, have a natural capability for killing, learning to kill, and more often naturally possess the skills and traits that facilitate it than do women.
As my brother in law (an MD) would say, "That's just straight up biology, sister."
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Overall, the least misogynistic way I can think to put the entire situation is thusly:
Men, on the whole, have a natural capability for killing, learning to kill, and more often naturally possess the skills and traits that facilitate it than do women.
As my brother in law (an MD) would say, "That's just straight up biology, sister."
unless they're redheads. I'm pretty sure their biology allows for it.
Maybe that's the solution. Instead of trying to integrate we just need to form an all female ginger core that deploys one week a month.
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unless they're redheads. I'm pretty sure their biology allows for it.
Maybe that's the solution. Instead of trying to integrate we just need to form an all female ginger core that deploys one week a month.
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I believe this is a workable plan and should be explored.
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I believe this is a workable plan and should be explored.
I believe that joke is so old, it's menopausal.
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The left forgets that 'minimum standards' are the bare minimum to barely get in or get by- not a goal to achieve.
Know a guy from my hometown HS, a year or two younger than me who is/was a Green Beret. If there is one woman in the 3.5 billion or so in the world that could take him in a fight, I would be shocked.
East german/bulgarian female body power lifters aside, women just don't get that big with single digit %body fat.
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I believe that joke is so old, it's menopausal.
Don't get your panties in a bunch
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Weaponsman weighs in:
http://weaponsman.com/?cat=34
A common beef is that, as the women don’t come from combat arms, they can’t be expected to know anything about patrolling or, say, warning orders. That’s nonsense; patrolling is necessary for any unit to secure its perimeter, and writing warning, operations, and fragmentary orders is a common skill at all officer and NCO leadership levels. One of the struggling candidates is a major, for the love of Mike, and therefore has ten years in a wartime Army, and is ambitious enough to want to pursue this badge on the theory that it will catapult her into high command. Can’t do an operations order?
Maybe this gig is not for you.
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We will never know why they washed out. They could have quit, they may have gotten peered out (which, at first glance may seem as if the men were out to get them.. but in the current climate? No male ranger candidate is gonna peer out a woman unless it's well deserved)
Weaponsman's earlier blog post lists by the number exactly why the female candidates were dropped. Failing all patrols, along with a couple that also failed all peer evaluations. Three female candidates were offered a Day 1 recycle and classed up with Class 08-15 this week.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=23048 (see the end of the post)
His whole series of posts about the women in Ranger School pilot has a lot of good information...
http://weaponsman.com/?s=rangerettes
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The left forgets that 'minimum standards' are the bare minimum to barely get in or get by- not a goal to achieve.
Know a guy from my hometown HS, a year or two younger than me who is/was a Green Beret. If there is one woman in the 3.5 billion or so in the world that could take him in a fight, I would be shocked.
East german/bulgarian female body power lifters aside, women just don't get that big with single digit %body fat.
Two granddaughters by my foster son are amazons. Scary girls 5'11 and change. Both were in the marines along with their older brother . They both are as fit and tuff as any women I have ever seen. And they will tell you that even though they can whup many guys in their units they are not combat material. Why? They point at their brother, when I can carry him out then I qualify but as much as I want to I can't.
I admire their spirit and they are head and shoulder above me and many others but wishing you are something does not make you that
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I'm really curious as to the females that have so far attempted Ranger school. Curious as to those that applied that had a shot of passing were told no from the get go.
I am not so disillusioned to think that there isn't somewhere in the Army 1-2% of the females that would be able to pass the school.
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As Commander in Chief, look for barack hussein to just 'make it happen'. Soon, too.
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I'm really curious as to the females that have so far attempted Ranger school. Curious as to those that applied that had a shot of passing were told no from the get go.
I am not so disillusioned to think that there isn't somewhere in the Army 1-2% of the females that would be able to pass the school.
What do you mean?
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What do you mean?
If any women actually passed, the joint chiefs wouldn't have an excuse to lower the standards.
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Know a guy from my hometown HS, a year or two younger than me who is/was a Green Beret. If there is one woman in the 3.5 billion or so in the world that could take him in a fight, I would be shocked.
I don't think they have boxing matches to decide who gets kicked off the island.
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I don't think they have boxing matches to decide who gets kicked off the island.
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But male and female differences are just cultural and stuff!
What is the point of having a Ranger school, anyway? Can't people just identify as Rangers, and be done with it?
Personally, I self-identify as Superman. Unfortunately, there's a lode of Kryptonite hidden around here, so I can't manifest my latent super powers.
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I am not so disillusioned to think that there isn't somewhere in the Army 1-2% of the females that would be able to pass the school.
I disagree.
Remember Renee Richards, the transsexual women's tennis player of a couple of decades ago? She started off life as Richard Alpert, and as a male played varsity tennis at Yale. There was a lot of resistance to allowing her to compete as a woman because of the fear that, despite gender reassignment surgery and hormones, she was still stronger physically. In a recent interview, Dr. Richards confirmed that this was, in fact, true. She said that, in retrospect, it wasn't fair for her to have competed in the women's circuit.
And, more recently, we have an opposite example -- the girl who was recruited to Harvard as a swimmer and who is a national record holder as a female, but she identifies as a male. So far she has had her boobs removed and is taking male hormones, but has not undergone gender reassignment therapy. She now competes as a member of the men's swim team -- where she is not especially competitive.
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I don't think they have boxing matches to decide who gets kicked off the island.
Right? Because being stronger, faster, and more fit has no place in special operations, and they give out participation medals for coming in 2nd place. ;/
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The very fact one cannot speak freely about the differences between women and men in most circumstances does not bode well for the intellectual climate of this country. Same goes for race and sexuality.
We are being forced to speak nonsense and deny reality or else be ostracized.
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Right? Because being stronger, faster, and more fit has no place in special operations, and they give out participation medals for coming in 2nd place. ;/
They call them Purple Hearts, awarded posthumously.
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The very fact one cannot speak freely about the differences between women and men in most circumstances does not bode well for the intellectual climate of this country. Same goes for race and sexuality.
We are being forced to speak nonsense and deny reality or else be ostracized.
From Theodore Dalrymple:
“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
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Right? Because being stronger, faster, and more fit has no place in special operations, and they give out participation medals for coming in 2nd place. ;/
Well, I didn't say all that. I'm just saying that they probably don't expect you to take out a Green Beret with your bare hands to pass Ranger School. Do you think they should?
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Well, I didn't say all that. I'm just saying that they probably don't expect you to take out a Green Beret with your bare hands to pass Ranger School. Do you think they should?
Let me answer that with an analogy....
My son really, really likes playing football (American Football, not the stupid 3rd world version).
In particular, he wants to be a defensive back. He's played for a few years and is fairly good, has the motivation and drive.
Lets say he gets bored with playing with middle schoolers or thinks he's much better than he really is..
Should we push to have the standards lowered at the high school varsity level so that he can play for the local high school? Maybe reserve a few slots on the team for younger, less able kids, because diversity...
Sure, he's 12, and only weighs 105 lbs, but his motivation and drive should be enough to overcome the size, strength, speed of High School Seniors right? What could possibly go wrong?
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The very fact one cannot speak freely about the differences between women and men in most circumstances does not bode well for the intellectual climate of this country. Same goes for race and sexuality.
We are being forced to speak nonsense and deny reality or else be ostracized.
By design.
http://www.unz.com/gnxp/men-are-stronger-than-women-on-average/?highlight=strength+women
Men Are Stronger Than Women (On Average)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Fcol1.jpg&hash=052de471ab17d07cd93fd4123ae212d0f62ca826)
Note that the categories are:
Blue--Undifferentiated young men
Red--Undifferentiated young women
Black--Female athletes.
There is no category for male athletes. Such a category would result in even greater disparity in means and distributions.
To give a concrete example of how far this goes, there are many liberal Left people who won’t even accede to the proposition that men are, on average, stronger in terms of upper body strength than women. A few years ago this came up on social media, where a friend who has a biology background from an elite university, even expressed skepticism at this, when I was trying to get her to be open to behavioral differences between the sexes by starting with something I thought she would at least agree with as reasonable. When I saw the lack of unequivocal acceptance of this point I decided to opt out of the conversation. This was basically face to face with Left Creationism.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Ffig2-e1424910126512.jpg&hash=2955381068843e42b6b2f05b2893eb9410d15b43)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Ffig4-e1424910158531.jpg&hash=d083a46b45aaec32e9e14a3212d3d7b505b8dcb9)
But on Twitter recently I saw an article which quantifies the difference in concrete ways. To be honest the difference shocked me...
The upshot is that the very strongest female athletes are barely above the median of grip strength for men. The top 75th percentile of female athletes are below the bottom 25th percentile of men. Another way to look at it is cumulative distributions. You can tell looking at this that there is overlap between the two sample distributions. How much? Ten percent of women have stronger grips than the bottom five percent of men. The difference in distributions is big enough that the very strongest non-elite athlete female in the whole data set has a weaker grip than most of the men.
It is unlikely that the Army is getting the very strongest female athletes. It is a bit of a gimme to assume that the Army's women have the top 25% of female athletes. Why? Because such women usually have much more remunerative options. Anyway, assuming Army has roughly the top 25th percentile of women, 01%-02% of them hacking Ranger School is a very low probability event.
This does not even take into account that women are more injury-prone under similar conditions. Which is why the tranny who fights as a woman in UFC has such an advantage. He is stronger and his opponents are more likely to be injured/get knocked out by his blows.
Army did those women no favors and likely did them real harm by allowing this farce to go forward.
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What do you mean?
My point was that the Army told those that they thought could pass they couldn't attend.
In other words the deck is stacked taller against any female actually passing.
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Let me answer that with an analogy....
My son really, really likes playing football (American Football, not the stupid 3rd world version).
In particular, he wants to be a defensive back. He's played for a few years and is fairly good, has the motivation and drive.
Lets say he gets bored with playing with middle schoolers or thinks he's much better than he really is..
Should we push to have the standards lowered at the high school varsity level so that he can play for the local high school? Maybe reserve a few slots on the team for younger, less able kids, because diversity...
Sure, he's 12, and only weighs 105 lbs, but his motivation and drive should be enough to overcome the size, strength, speed of High School Seniors right? What could possibly go wrong?
I don't know anything about football. I'm still trying to figure out what a fistfight with a Green Beret has to do with these women failing Ranger school.
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I don't know anything about football. I'm still trying to figure out what a fistfight with a Green Beret has to do with these women failing Ranger school.
Overall physical conditioning/strength. Quit being dense.
Whether its a rifle/knife/club that's used in combat, physical ability still matters- A LOT!
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By design.
http://www.unz.com/gnxp/men-are-stronger-than-women-on-average/?highlight=strength+women
Men Are Stronger Than Women (On Average)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Fcol1.jpg&hash=052de471ab17d07cd93fd4123ae212d0f62ca826)
Note that the categories are:
Blue--Undifferentiated young men
Red--Undifferentiated young women
Black--Female athletes.
There is no category for male athletes. Such a category would result in even greater disparity in means and distributions.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Ffig2-e1424910126512.jpg&hash=2955381068843e42b6b2f05b2893eb9410d15b43)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unzcloud.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F02%2Ffig4-e1424910158531.jpg&hash=d083a46b45aaec32e9e14a3212d3d7b505b8dcb9)
It is unlikely that the Army is getting the very strongest female athletes. It is a bit of a gimme to assume that the Army's women have the top 25% of female athletes. Why? Because such women usually have much more remunerative options. Anyway, assuming Army has roughly the top 25th percentile of women, 01%-02% of them hacking Ranger School is a very low probability event.
This does not even take into account that women are more injury-prone under similar conditions. Which is why the tranny who fights as a woman in UFC has such an advantage. He is stronger and his opponents are more likely to be injured/get knocked out by his blows.
Army did those women no favors and likely did them real harm by allowing this farce to go forward.
So the 50th percentile woman has roughly the same physical ability as a skinny pants wearing hipster male? :laugh:
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So the 50th percentile woman has roughly the same physical ability as a skinny pants wearing hipster male? :laugh:
I rather consider it further confirmation dudes who are skinny pants wearing hipsters are actually really ugly flat chested chicks.
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Overall physical conditioning/strength. Quit being dense.
Whether its a rifle/knife/club that's used in combat, physical ability still matters- A LOT!
OK, but has Ranger school traditionally measured physical ability by having the prospective Rangers spar with Green Berets? Has anyone ever failed because they lost a hand-to-hand fight? Do they even do hand-to-hand fighting in Ranger School?
Since you seem to want to talk about it, I'll just come out and say that you've seen too many Expendables films. Bar fights are, I think, pretty far down on the list of things that make one Ranger-qualified. That's not exactly their mission, nor is it what makes them a legendary special operations force.
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To settle the dispute between fistful and brimic, I have digitized some video of our combatives training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oRdxUFDoQe0#t=201
No wonder they thought gals could make it through, we looked completely fey!
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My point was that the Army told those that they thought could pass they couldn't attend.
In other words the deck is stacked taller against any female actually passing.
Who got told they couldn't attend?
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Who got told they couldn't attend?
No one that I know of, but throwing out the possibility that some were told no, that might have actually passed.
They don't want anyone to pass.
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No one that I know of, but throwing out the possibility that some were told no, that might have actually passed.
They don't want anyone to pass.
Er, wrong. Most the big brass wants to be good PC lapdogs and would not have pushed this wet noodle of an idea this far unless they wanted it to happen.
And given my experience, the probability of any female--enlisted or officer--making it through Ranger School without changing the course approaches zero.
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But could Brienne of Tarth make it through?
(Sorry: my wife and I are now watching GOT, and I am impressed with Brienne)
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But could Brienne of Tarth make it through?
(Sorry: my wife and I are now watching GOT, and I am impressed with Brienne)
I have watched GOT, but am unsure about that character. Is the character wholly mundane or does she have some mystical mojo going on?
If mystical mojo, anything is possible because of the mystical component. She could be trans-dragon for all we know.
If wholly mundane, nope, not probable. My personal experience with competitive female olympic weightlifters and kickboxers, as well as female basketball players indicate that the Brienne character is a fantasy in no way grounded in reality.
The Brienne character is pretty much written in the "man with tits" line of fantastical female kickassery. See David Weber's Honor Harrington books for another example of this type. What would the character do/say differently if she were a man? If the answer is "not much," the character likely is a man with female bits grafted on.
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Here's a story to round out this thread.
My wife went to school with a girl who became a fitness freak type. Said chick came from a hyper fundy family that discouraged their wimmenz from being strong physical specimens (which is completely nonsensical, given the attitude towards childbearing in those same circles. But I digress)
Wife started working out with her while they were both at the Bob and the chick gained mass easily and became quite strong. So strong that she joined the USMC and they were going to send her to OCS.
Some of you have a notion of how difficult it is to get into USMC OCS. It is a highly selective program and in this day and age you cannot even consider getting in as a white male unless you are Jesus, and maybe not even then. (Also, Jesus wasn't White, but I digress yet again).
So this young lady secured her spot to go to OCS about a year out. In the mean time she came down with a debilitating sickness (mono I think), but had several months to recover after that. In the mean time,she became engaged to an enlisted man.
However, following the sickness, she failed to rebuild her strength, as in, failed to even try to obtain her previous muscle mass and endurance, but then proceeded to Quantico anyways, where she promptly washed out. The version I heard is that her family essentially really got onto her, despite the fact that she was living 800 miles away from home, telling her that if she worked out too much then she wouldn't be attractive, and probably some other head games as well.
So this pisses me off on several levels.
1. Her family is retarded.
2. Her enlisted boyfriend/fiancee obviously sucks because he didn't demonstrate enough leadership to quash her family's head games and get her back in the groove.
3. if men and women use the same set of slots for OCS, she wasted a slot that could have been given to a deserving woman, or more likely, a man. The fact that she did not recognize this does not bode well for her leadership potential or the Corps' analysis thereof.
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http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/07/ranger-school-women-pickle-jar/
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It would be as easy to teach them how to do it as it is to pass the skill down to our sons.
But that would open the floodgates on "man knowledge " that would be expected to also be released.
Without a strict one-for-one exchange of the girl rules there is no value in even discussing this.
Personally I think the secret of the pickle jar should only be released after the exchange of the secret of why you all have to go to the bathroom together?
stay safe.
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Personally I think the secret of the pickle jar should only be released after the exchange of the secret of why you all have to go to the bathroom together?
stay safe.
H8er.
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It was once explained to me that COSMO is the rule book. Reading by men is therefore forbidden. I tried reading one once, it made my brain hurt.
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To get back to the serious.
Ranger, BUD/S, Scout/Sniper and Combat Controller/Pararescue schools are all designed to to basically the same thing: To wear you down physically to point you collapse mentally. And the better shape you are in going in, the longer you will last. They restrict the amount of food you get, so your body consumes not only all your fat stores, but even begins to consume muscle tissue as you work harder and harder to complete the phases and the missions within those phases.
My junior year, we had three hard-core hard-charging cadets attend Ranger School in lieu of Advance Camp (Which wasn't a picnic by any stretch), all three washed out. One to the point where he was medically ineligible for a combat arms branch assignment.
Ranger School is designed to physically stress students to a point short of death
And from what I saw from peers that went to Ranger school, this is pretty accurate. They looked like Concentration Camp survivors when they got back. MY buddy Kevin told me that his mother broke down and cried when she saw how badly he looked afterwards when he got home.
But getting back to my point. They will push you, and push you, and push you, until you break. Mentally. That's what it's all about. Can you withstand the physical and mental strain to successfully complete the mission.
The second to last line of the Ranger Creed is:
Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor.
That's not a marketing gimmick, you have to really mean it when you say it.
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Ok, then the obvious question is what did fail them, if not the PT?
Accuracy. I heard they actually did fairly well at peeing for distance, but hit the urinal even less often than the men.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420826/women-in-combat-military-effectiveness-deadly-pentagon
So why do men and perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women.
In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently. For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much overall higher tolerance for pain than women.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420826/women-in-combat-military-effectiveness-deadly-pentagon
Still doesn't explain why there's a Women's Chess Federation. I mean, does our greater upper body strength make actually moving the pieces less of a distraction for us?
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So why do men and perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women.
In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently. For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much overall higher tolerance for pain than women.
Hatefacts!
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Still doesn't explain why there's a Women's Chess Federation. I mean, does our greater upper body strength make actually moving the pieces less of a distraction for us?
Men's and women's brains are also ordered differently plus men tend to be over-represented on the high and low end of the intelligence curve.
Less obliquely: men do spatial reasoning better on average and there are more extremely intelligent men than there are extremely intelligent women.
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are redheaded women really more prone to be able to kill?
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are redheaded women really more prone to be able to kill?
In a word - oh hell yes.
stay safe.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420826/women-in-combat-military-effectiveness-deadly-pentagon
While it is true that countries such as Israel and Russia in the past, and the Kurdish military today, have been forced by dire circumstances to rely on women to literally defend their own persons, their children, and their house against savage invaders, thankfully we are in no such position.
This right here is bullshit.
These women were not defending their persons and children. Hell, most of them probably didn't have children to defend. Making wartime military service sound like chasing off a burglar is stupid and disrespectful.
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This right here is bullshit.
These women were not defending their persons and children. Hell, most of them probably didn't have children to defend. Making wartime military service sound like chasing off a burglar is stupid and disrespectful.
I'm not sure why you think he is equating women taking up arms against invading armies as the same as burglars and thieves. You are seeing something that isn't there.
Israel was invaded by Egypt and Syria, Russia was invaded by Germany and the Kurds are under attack by the Islamic State; hardly burglars.
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are redheaded women really more prone to be able to kill?
If they don't kill ya they'll steal your soul.
That's where all the freckles come from, they get a new freckle for every soul they steal.
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I'm not sure why you think he is equating women taking up arms against invading armies as the same as burglars and thieves. You are seeing something that isn't there.
He is saying they are defending their persons and children. I think that flying night bombing missions is a bit more than personal defense.
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Hmm... maybe the new ruling the military is going to allow transgender soldiers is their way to get "women" to pass these tests?
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Just saw this article this morning...
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article27659722.html
This article indicates three of the women recycled, and are in Mountain Phase. All three are West Point grads.
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Just saw this article this morning...
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article27659722.html
This article indicates three of the women recycled, and are in Mountain Phase. All three are West Point grads.
Read the article. Smells like the fix is in.
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Read the article. Smells like the fix is in.
The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try. Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...
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The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try. Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...
I was also amused by the anecdote at the start that she led the whole group for a 1.8 MILE! hike and was leading the whole time.
Gee, almost TWO WHOLE MILES? Wow. Warrior, definitely.
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The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try. Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...
Very much this. Also, she is not going to to be in good shape going up to Dahlonega.
Plus...all academy grads.
I see two ways the fix might be in:
1. Brass declares "Thou shalt tab these women or your career is over."
Eventually, Ranger school would become a watered down joke like jump school, excising every component that would keep women from making it through.
2. RTB / Subversive elements let these three particular women through for a reason.
This way they can say, "Look, the standards are not too high to allow women to make it through. These three super-dooper-female-paratroopers did it. Of course, they had the advantage of the wonderful Academy training which set them up for success just like every shining example of martial puissance that steps through the Academy's door." Letting a dribble through Ranger School to show it is not impossible, combined with stroking Academy brass ego, IOW. They could maintain standards with a wink & nudge.
There is a similar arrangement for when a Sergeant Major goes for his tab. Such an old man has no business in Ranger School going for his tab. RTB cadre will crush an officer every day of the week on his way to a tab no matter his rank if he can't cut it, but SGM get an easier path if they put up a good effort. Of course, cadre and everyone else think the SGM is a POS for trying to tab when his body is no longer up to the task. And most any SGM who has been infantry his whole career will be a (relative) physical wreck by the time he makes SGM.
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The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try. Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...
It doesn't read like that to me. See this snippet from WeaponMan's ongoing coverage...
On their third attempt at Camp Darby, the three women all passed one patrol. None has passed two. None has failed more than one (one or possibly two has only been graded once). With them “tabbed out” on patrols — at least as far as Darby is concerned — the course managers stopped assigning them to graded positions. This is often, but not always, done for men. The graded positions on the last couple days of the phase are going to the guys who need a Darby patrol pass to avoid recycle or dismissal, not to students who have demonstrated that they can lead a patrol — male or female alike.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=23843
If you parse his earlier posts carefully (all worth reading) you get this for these three Ranger students...
06-15: Failed all patrols
07-15: Passed one patrol, failed to meet standards
08-15: Passed one patrol, met standards
Considering three female Ranger students failed the PT test, eight failed out during RAP Week, and five more were dismissed after their first recycle it doesn't seem rigged that three females (of the original 138 that reported to RTAC) could pass Darby Phase on their third try.
Mountain Phase (and Florida Phase) still remain. That is a lot of suck to endure. Especially on the legs. We'll see what happens over the next several weeks.
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Phantom, interesting information. I was only going from the article I linked to, which indicated two failed attempts, and the phrase "sailed through" was used by the author.
Im not opposed to a female wearing Ranger tab, so long as the tab was earned the same way it was by a male. Hoping that's what is going on here...
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Phantom, interesting information. I was only going from the article I linked to, which indicated two failed attempts, and the phrase "sailed through" was used by the author.
Im not opposed to a female wearing Ranger tab, so long as the tab was earned the same way it was by a male. Hoping that's what is going on here...
Recycling is fairly common for males too, and I havent YET seen any evidence of them being given preferential treatment.
We shall see
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/18/army-ranger-school-to-graduate-its-first-two-women/?intcmp=hpbt3
Well it looks like two actually recycled enough to pass.
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At first, every article I read did not list the names of the women. And I felt hope that maybe the Army was going to avoid putting the women in the spotlight and yelling "Look at us! We are diverse and inclusive! Aren't we awesome?" You know, no dog and pony show. Let them graduate and the press can track them down later...
Then I found this article...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/army-ranger-school-first-female-graduates-names-announced-thursday/
Full press dog and pony show on Thursday. Which will only be the opening act for this...
http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/president-plans-to-attend-ranger-school-ceremony-this-guarantees-first-women-will-graduate/
Obama is going to attend and (I'm guessing) put the tabs on these women himself. Announce how great he is that he gave women these opportunities. And he made them Rangers.
My hope is gone. Back to skepticism...
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My hope is gone. Back to skepticism...
You'll be a lot happier that way. ;)
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/18/army-ranger-school-to-graduate-its-first-two-women/?intcmp=hpbt3
Well it looks like two actually recycled enough to pass.
I simultaneously knew that they would have women passing the school and that the chances of the women being capable of passing were infinitesimal. Further, it wasn't cognitive dissonance to hold those two positions.
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I still have yet to see any indication that any standards were lowered for this.
Perhaps their classmates will tell a different story once they get out into the field, but if so I'd expect us (folks in the Army) to know that about as quickly as the details of Bergdahl's leaving. Which is to say so fast it used quantum commo gear.
Until I see such indications, I'm going to assume they passed the real thing, and offer my congratulations to them. I wouldn't want to go through that *expletive deleted*it.
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I still have yet to see any indication that any standards were lowered for this.
Perhaps their classmates will tell a different story once they get out into the field, but if so I'd expect us (folks in the Army) to know that about as quickly as the details of Bergdahl's leaving. Which is to say so fast it used quantum commo gear.
Until I see such indications, I'm going to assume they passed the real thing, and offer my congratulations to them. I wouldn't want to go through that *expletive deleted*it.
Same. Until otherwise proven, they deserve the benefit of a doubt. Don't forget, soldiers don't always ask to be given the lime light. PFC Lynch was one example. She didn't do anything wrong whatsoever, was presented by the brass as a Certified Hero, and kept bloody well silent as her brother was still in. Not saying that if she said the wrong things, her brother would be given back to back deployments as a mine sweeper in the most hostile zones they could find, but anyone with half a brain wouldn't dismiss the possibility. She did the smart thing, kept her mouth shut, got the hell out and kept a low profile since.
If it was a total con job, yeah, the entire Army across the entire planet will know about 3 minutes after the graduation ceremony is over. From what little I've heard, there was pressure to open up Ranger units to females, standards haven't been deliberately tanked, but folks are nervous as hell of what happens if female recruits bomb out in the expected numbers. From what one triple tab NCO told me, the going bet is that they'll grease the wheels for any female that would just barely fail in hopes that the standards aren't gutted completely. Not a complete con job, but mostly like what Rooster said, Sergeant Major treatment. More lenient than maybe it should be, but not a complete travesty. Mind you, that's the informal groupthink, and might not be what actually happened.
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I still have yet to see any indication that any standards were lowered for this.
Perhaps their classmates will tell a different story once they get out into the field, but if so I'd expect us (folks in the Army) to know that about as quickly as the details of Bergdahl's leaving. Which is to say so fast it used quantum commo gear.
Until I see such indications, I'm going to assume they passed the real thing, and offer my congratulations to them. I wouldn't want to go through that *expletive deleted*it.
Agreed. My point was that I had hoped that the current .mil and .gov would let it go and not grandstand on the occasion. Silly me.
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Agreed. My point was that I had hoped that the current .mil and .gov would let it go and not grandstand on the occasion. Silly me.
I'm trying to come up with suitable "silly rabbit, Trix are for kids line" but nothing fits right, just like our contemporary political climate.
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You'll be a lot happier that way. ;)
Been working for me for nigh on thirty years.
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1. I am not going to hold the malfeasance, bad faith, and whatnot of spineless, morally corrupt, and cowardly brass against these women. Yes, one would hope that they would have the integrity to call it off if they smelled a rat and/or preferential treatment. But given that they were likely not infantry and had little conception of the level of suck that can be experienced before they went to Ranger School, they may not have been able to detect preferential treatment.
2. The likelihood of these two women recycling twice at Benning (for a total of three fun filled cracks at Darby) and then making it through Dahlonega is very, very small. The spirit might have been willing, but I doubt the body would have managed it given they were already at a steep disadvantage walking through the door muscle mass, bone mass, and PT-wise. Before recycling twice. And then doing swamp in Florida.
3. I suspect the whole class got an easier time of it to help keep the accusations of preferential treatment to a minimum.
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2. The likelihood of these two women recycling twice at Benning (for a total of three fun filled cracks at Darby) and then making it through Dahlonega is very, very small. The spirit might have been willing, but I doubt the body would have managed it given they were already at a steep disadvantage walking through the door muscle mass, bone mass, and PT-wise. Before recycling twice. And then doing swamp in Florida.
I would have bet you money at least one of the three that made it to Mountains would have dropped due to injury. It sounds like the third one was recycled or dropped due to performance, not medical issues. Though I haven't heard much about them yet.
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-navy-seals-report/index.html
The end is nigh!!!!
=(
bob
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-navy-seals-report/index.html
The end is nigh!!!!
bob
I doubt the ladies would get past "hell week" without ringing the bell.
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-navy-seals-report/index.html
The end is nigh!!!!
=(
bob
Wasn't this movie already made?
stay safe.
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Saw a story on HLN this morning which named the two women...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-graduate-army-ranger-course/
Here is another article with a photo of Lt. Haver and Captain Griest.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/meet-female-soldiers-graduate-army-ranger-school-article-1.2330545
What I found interesting this morning were the comments about the fact that they graduated Ranger school, but aren't being slotted to the 75th Reg. Looks like the public by and large equates graduating Ranger school with being sent to the 75th, not realizing how Ranger tabs being awarded does not mean that the soldier is being sent to the 75th, and that completion of the course is often followed by being sent back to your original unit, especially for officers. Many of the comments were along the lines of "they passed the test, let them do the job." A quick check verified that women are still not eligible for pure combat arms positions in the US Military. Looks like America remember this. Must think that the GI Jane was realistic.
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I know some folks connected with RTB. They say there were no shortcuts.
Recycles, even multiples, are pretty frequent in Ranger school. That they recycled multiple times and still made it is not unusual.
I believe, until presented with evidence otherwise, that these Soldiers earned their tabs, and that the very competent and professional RIs held them to the same standard as anyone else