Taliban raid on Camp Bastion and loss of Harriers

[Tallpine]

We invaded a country and the locals are resisting. 

[TommyGunn]

Hell yeah we invaded a &*$^%^& country that harbored AQ that ATTACKED US!!!`

Maybe we should send countries that attack us sympathy cards.

[AZRedhawk44]

Hell yeah we invaded a &*$^%^& country that harbored AQ that ATTACKED US!!!`

Maybe we should send countries that attack us sympathy cards.

Incorrect.

We invaded a country that borders Iran.  OK, we invaded 2 countries that border Iran.

Our entire Middle East game plan is focused on Iran, and has been since 2001.  Maybe earlier.

[Tallpine]

I'm just trying to figure out why we are so surprised that our enemies fight back 

[dogmush]

Hell yeah we invaded a &*$^%^& country that harbored AQ that ATTACKED US!!!`

Without getting into whether or not the invasion was justified, it still seems like kind of a no brainer that if you invade a country, the folks that live there might object.

[Tallpine]

Without getting into whether or not the invasion was justified, it still seems like kind of a no brainer that if you invade a country, the folks that live there might object.

But we're Americans!

Don't they know that we come in peace ? 

[Blakenzy]

"We came, we saw, He died!"- Hillary Clinton

Oh wait, that's Libya.

[TommyGunn]

Incorrect.

We invaded a country that borders Iran.  OK, we invaded 2 countries that border Iran.

Our entire Middle East game plan is focused on Iran, and has been since 2001.  Maybe earlier.

You get this stuff off of Alex Jones website?

[AZRedhawk44]

Just because I don't subscribe to "NeoCon Warmonger Quarterly?"  Now I'm an Infowars troofer?

OK, whatever.

[TommyGunn]

Without getting into whether or not the invasion was justified, it still seems like kind of a no brainer that if you invade a country, the folks that live there might object.

Sure, but somehow that misses the point.  
Insurgents are sneaking in and experiencing some degree of success blowing up attack aircraft and such.  Sure I expect this -- but I also expect our guys to be better at stopping it.
Obama is proclaiming wonderful things are happening in the mideast and in A'stan & Iraq.   Great.  We're scheduled to go away by 2014.  OK, fine.  
And I have this dire feeling that the day after we're gone the Taliban will come charging back into A'stan from Pakistan and take over again and all of what we've done will be for nought, all our casualties there will have been for nothing.
And Obama will proclaim victory.
And apologize.....again.

What the h*** is the point of going to war against a force that caused buillions of dollars in damage to your country and slaughtered 2,973 human beings and not utterly destroying them so they can't get up, dust themselves off, and repeat the ****** all over again?

And I don't know why China or Russia or even Iran should fear us if we don't even give a _______ about winning a war.

[TommyGunn]

Just because I don't subscribe to "NeoCon Warmonger Quarterly?"  Now I'm an Infowars troofer?

OK, whatever.

Please.....don't act so hurt.    It really doesn't become you.

[Blakenzy]

Sure, but somehow that misses the point.   
Insurgents are sneaking in and experiencing some degree of success blowing up attack aircraft and such.  Sure I expect this -- but I also expect our guys to be better at stopping it.
Obama is proclaiming wonderful things are happening in the mideast and in A'stan & Iraq.   Great.  We're scheduled to go away by 2014.  OK, fine. 
And I have this dire feeling that the day after we're gone the Taliban will come charging back into A'stan from Pakistan and take over again and all of what we've done will be for nought, all our casualties there will have been for nothing.
And Obama will proclaim victory.
And apologize.....again.

What the h*** is the point of going to war against a force that caused buillions of dollars in damage to your country and slaughtered 2,973 human beings and not utterly destroying them so they can't get up, dust themselves off, and repeat the ****** all over again?

And I don't know why China or Russia or even Iran should fear us if we don't even give a _______ about winning a war.

Yes. That is what is going to happen, that is what IS happening.

and...

At this point in time, do you still believe it ever was all about "getting terrorists" and protecting America?

[AZRedhawk44]

Sure, but somehow that misses the point.  
Insurgents are sneaking in and experiencing some degree of success blowing up attack aircraft and such.  Sure I expect this -- but I also expect our guys to be better at stopping it.
Obama is proclaiming wonderful things are happening in the mideast and in A'stan & Iraq.   Great.  We're scheduled to go away by 2014.  OK, fine.  
And I have this dire feeling that the day after we're gone the Taliban will come charging back into A'stan from Pakistan and take over again and all of what we've done will be for nought, all our casualties there will have been for nothing.
And Obama will proclaim victory.
And apologize.....again.

What the h*** is the point of going to war against a force that caused buillions of dollars in damage to your country and slaughtered 2,973 human beings and not utterly destroying them so they can't get up, dust themselves off, and repeat the ****** all over again?

And I don't know why China or Russia or even Iran should fear us if we don't even give a _______ about winning a war.

Dude, you're about 4 years behind the rest of the country in these questions.

stuck in full auto since birth

Find the selective fire switch.  Conserve ammo.  Marksmanship, not suppression.

[Balog]

If we're going to build nations then fine. Let's build the damn nations. I think the British and the Roman Empires would be good examples to follow.

Failing that, let's not throw away lives and treasure invading every sand pit where the locals don't like us aka all of them.

[erictank]

If we're going to build nations then fine. Let's build the damn nations. I think the British and the Roman Empires would be good examples to follow.

Failing that, let's not throw away lives and treasure invading every sand pit where the locals don't like us aka all of them.

This x 80.  This half-assed stuff we're doing serves no useful purpose, and HURTS us.

[MicroBalrog]

To do nation-building, you must be willing - not so much to kill more people, but to do like the British did in Kipling's time: decide firmly, as a society, "our culture is better and by God we are going to impose it."

Unfortunately, that is no longer acceptable today, and indeed seen as a form of bigotry.

[TommyGunn]

Dude, you're about 4 years behind the rest of the country in these questions.

Really?  Seems like I've been talking like that four about ..... four years.   

stuck in full auto since birth

Find the selective fire switch.  Conserve ammo.  Marksmanship, not suppression.

Oh...you take tag lines seriously. 

[TommyGunn]

At this point in time, do you still believe it ever was all about "getting terrorists" and protecting America?

When the war started I did.   
God knows what Obama thinks he's doing.   I don't think Obama knows what Obama is doing. 

[Balog]

To do nation-building, you must be willing - not so much to kill more people, but to do like the British did in Kipling's time: decide firmly, as a society, "our culture is better and by God we are going to impose it."

Unfortunately, that is no longer acceptable today, and indeed seen as a form of bigotry.

Yeah, I have no illusions we'll actually do it. I just think it's the only way it'd work.

[De Selby]

Yeah, I have no illusions we'll actually do it. I just think it's the only way it'd work.

Even that wouldn't work - look at the British now.  They figured out early on that local clients are feasible to administer whereas direct imposition is prohibitively expensive.  That's why they still profit from Kuwait but got spanked throughout Africa.

Even "threatening extermination" isn't viable anymore - there are too many nations that can exterminate us, so we can't be sending the message that we'll do it to them if they cross us.  That makes the math on deciding to preemptively strike too attractive.

Military force can't reorganize a society - ideas can, but we don't have any ideas that would be particularly sane for the locals to adopt.

[MicroBalrog]

I'm sorry that you only understand military force as 'threatening people with extermination', De Selby.

Military force has been excellent at reorganizing the hell out of Southern society and ending slavery, and at ending Nazism and Japanese militarism.

And if you think we don't have any worthwhile ideas, I am genuinely sorry for you.

[De Selby]

I'm sorry that you only understand military force as 'threatening people with extermination', De Selby.

Military force has been excellent at reorganizing the hell out of Southern society and ending slavery, and at ending Nazism and Japanese militarism.

And if you think we don't have any worthwhile ideas, I am genuinely sorry for you.

Micro, how exactly did military force reorganize southern society?  De facto slavery and segregation continued on for a solid hundred years following the war.   Changing political institutions was done quite rapidly in Afghanistan and Iraq - look how much good that did.

We have great ideas for ourselves - the problem is that our ideas for Iraqis and Afghanis aren't the same.  The idea for them is to act as client states that respond to US domestic interests.  That's not going to change cultures, and it actually discredits our very good ideas about personal liberty and political freedoms - people who espouse those views get written off as propagandists who just want to implement a client state, which indeed many of them are.

[MicroBalrog]

No.

The Recosntructionists did quite some work for the blacks right up until 1876, and even later Southern racism had its ups and downs (for example, mass transit at first refused to segregate blacks). None of it even approached the horror that is being physically owned by another person.

We have great ideas for ourselves - the problem is that our ideas for Iraqis and Afghanis aren't the same.  The idea for them is to act as client states that respond to US domestic interests.  That's not going to change cultures, and it actually discredits our very good ideas about personal liberty and political freedoms - people who espouse those views get written off as propagandists who just want to implement a client state, which indeed many of them are.

This is mostly because 'foreign policy expert' is basically a euphemism for 'Cthulhu'.

[Hutch]

De Selby, as someone who has personal experience with the South within the time period you assert ( up until 1965, by my calculation), let inform you and anyone who might have read your opinion.

You don't have a bleeping CLUE what you're talking about.  Was discrimination bad?  Yes.  Were blacks routinely denied their rights?  Yes.  Does this compare to chattel slavery?  Abso-frickin'-lutely NOT, and you trivialize the abomination of slavery by drawing any equivalency.

[SADShooter]

De Selby, as someone who has personal experience with the South within the time period you assert ( up until 1965, by my calculation), let inform you and anyone who might have read your opinion.

You don't have a bleeping CLUE what you're talking about.  Was discrimination bad?  Yes.  Were blacks routinely denied their rights?  Yes.  Does this compare to chattel slavery?  Abso-frickin'-lutely NOT, and you trivialize the abomination of slavery by drawing any equivalency.

But, but, but, but....the South is EVIL! At least one Canadian and a multitude of Yankees have said so in songs, so it must be true! Just as colonialism is inherently evil, having zero benefit to the colonials.