Cuba

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm torn on the issue. The US is the only country imposing any kind of sanctions on Cuba and yet it is still a communist shithole. I see lots of talk about all the old classic cars still running but no one mentions that there are many many non US auto makers that ostensibly have the ability to sell in Cuba but I'm thinking there might be a reason why they don't beyond the US embargo.
I don't think a change in US policies will have the dramatic OMG results so many seem to think will result.
I don't think Cuba will make much progress towards any kind of freedom while the Castro family is in charge. And, if Russia gets back in the picture even the death of the brothers won't do much.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Obama making noise about not only closing Gitmo but surrendering it back to Cuba, intact.
 

[Ben]

but no one mentions that there are many many non US auto makers that ostensibly have the ability to sell in Cuba but I'm thinking there might be a reason why they don't beyond the US embargo.

I think it may have even been a topic here, but I remember something about new cars, like from Japan, being available, but starting around the $50K US range. That's for something like a Corolla.

[Boomhauer]

I see lots of talk about all the old classic cars still running

Most of those are hacked together shitboxes.

Personally I don't think this is going to really change much. I'm not getting worked up about it.

[Balog]

Do you seriously think Barack Obama cares one whit about Islam, Christianity, or any other religion?

I think MechAg was joking.

Obama isn't devoutly religious of course, but his cultural affiliations are certainly heavily influenced by Islam and his time in the Indonesian madrassa.

[charby]

Most of those are hacked together shitboxes.

Personally I don't think this is going to really change much. I'm not getting worked up about it.

If they weren't cobbled together shitboxes, someone else with a lot more money and resources will snatch them up and sell them for a premium at auction.

[Scout26]

I think MechAg was joking.

Obama isn't devoutly religious of course, but his cultural affiliations are certainly heavily influenced by Islam and his time in the Indonesian madrassa.

While that may play a small part, Obama wrote an entire book about "The Dreams of my Father", which is full of hero worship for his anti-colonial, Marxist father.   I think that shows where his true beliefs lie.

[Balog]

While that may play a small part, Obama wrote an entire book about "The Dreams of my Father", which is full of hero worship for his anti-colonial, Marxist father.   I think that shows where his true beliefs lie.

There's a difference between one's belief system and cultural influences. They're separate things that affect your life in different ways.

[Ron]

I'm with Scout on this one.

Obama exists in a nexus between post modernism and Marxism.

Personally I think he is a pretty confused dude due to the above rather than evil; other than the evil that is pretty banal.

[Firethorn]

My opinion:  Keeping the Embargo going at this point makes the USA look dumb.  'blinked first'?  We ran it 40+ years!  If anything, Castro stepping down/dying is an opportunity to say it was about Castro, not Cuba.

Sure, his brother taking over isn't great, but how much longer is he likely to last?

End the Embargo, get to be in the position the USSR/Venezuela once held, IE major source of funding, and we'll have more control over the regime.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Another fantasy? Are you aware of what the Cubans have come out and said since Obama backed up,to em and said not too deep be gentle?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Scout26]

End the Embargo, get to be in the position the USSR/Venezuela once held, IE major source of funding, and we'll have more control over the regime.

BBBBBBBBbbbbbbbbwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhaha


Seriously?!??!  You really believe that ?!?!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

No seriously, Cuba was about to fall over because the Soviets stopped propping them up shortly after the Wall fell.  Venezuela has been infusing them with cash, but ever before oil prices collapsed, they had to cut back their subsidies because of their internal issues (socialism always to have them in spades).

So Cuba's (and the Castro's) sources of hard currency were drying up, to the point that regime could not and would not be able to prop itself up anymore, but Obama swoops in and with this move will save the Castro's from them selves and their failed socialist system.   Now was the time not to end the embargo, but to double down on it.   The cracks would have quickly appeared and then the entire rotten edifice would have collapsed.   But nope, Obama hater of all things colonial and lover of all things Marxist cannot allow the grand socialist revolution of Cuba to fail.  What would his father think.




As an aside, while he did attend an Islamic school in Indonesia, I think that they Marxist aspect of his belief system is much more dominate then his "religious" side.  While he has empathy for Islam (and Muslim states), he's much more of socialist/Marxist then Muslim.   Hell, all you have to do is read his books to learn that.   There is also the movie 2016 which I highly recommend.  Dinesh D'Souza does a great job of dissecting Obama's two autobiographies. 

[Scout26]

End the Embargo, get to be in the position the USSR/Venezuela once held, IE major source of funding, and we'll have more control over the regime.

BBBBBBBBbbbbbbbbwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhaha


Seriously?!??!  You really believe that ?!?!?!?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

No seriously, Cuba was about to fall over because the Soviets stopped propping them up shortly after the Wall fell.  Venezuela has been infusing them with cash, but even before oil prices collapsed, they had to cut back their subsidies because of their internal issues (socialism always seems to have them in spades).

So Cuba's (and the Castro's) sources of hard currency were drying up, to the point that regime could not and would not be able to prop itself up anymore, but Obama swoops in and with this move will save the Castros from themselves and their failed socialist system.   Now was the time not to end the embargo, but to double down on it.   The cracks would have quickly appeared and then the entire rotten edifice would have collapsed.   But nope, Obama hater of all things colonial and lover of all things Marxist cannot allow the grand socialist revolution of Cuba to fail.  What would his father think!!




As an aside, while he did attend an Islamic school in Indonesia, I think that the Marxist aspect of his belief system is much more dominate then his "religious" side.  While he has empathy for Islam (and Muslim states), he's much more of socialist/Marxist then Muslim.   Hell, all you have to do is read his books to learn that.   There is also the movie 2016 which I highly recommend.  Dinesh D'Souza does a great job of dissecting Obama's two autobiographies to get to what drives him and what he believes.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Obama has a lot invested in keeping the last socialist utopia breathing


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Firethorn]

BBBBBBBBbbbbbbbbwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahhaha

This isn't a refutation.  Additionally, you might be taking it the wrong way.

So Cuba's (and the Castro's) sources of hard currency were drying up, to the point that regime could not and would not be able to prop itself up anymore, but Obama swoops in and with this move will save the Castro's from them selves and their failed socialist system.   Now was the time not to end the embargo, but to double down on it.   The cracks would have quickly appeared and then the entire rotten edifice would have collapsed.   But nope, Obama hater of all things colonial and lover of all things Marxist cannot allow the grand socialist revolution of Cuba to fail.  What would his father think.

We're not 'saving the Castros'.  While helping them is inevitable, they're already well off enough that they're not going anywhere anytime soon.  We don't want Cuba to collapse into anarchy.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Look how well it's already working and helping the people
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/12/23/cuban-government-sinks-boat-carrying-32-refugees-including-children/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Firethorn]

Look how well it's already working and helping the people
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/12/23/cuban-government-sinks-boat-carrying-32-refugees-including-children/

Look at it this way:  Without the loosening, there's nothing short of threatening letters or military action we could use to protest this.  Now, and I'm not saying Obama can do it, he could delay the opening an appropriate amount of time in response.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Rofl......  Wait you actually believe that?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Firethorn]

Rofl......  Wait you actually believe that?

Yes.  Again, your laughter is not a refutation.  I am against my government doing useless things, because useless things still cost money, and since they're useless said things are worthless, ergo a waste of money.  The embargo had long proven itself to be useless.  We deal with lots of countries worse than Cuba.  That we have relations with them means that putting up sanctions actually have a benefit.  See how Russia's hurting under it's sanctions.

The 'problem' is that Cuba has adapted to not having access to US Markets and such.  Restore that, let them get used to it, and the threat of sanctions might actually do something.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You claim to be against wasting money....  What does the embargo cost us vs the cost of Obama backing up to the Castro's and saying sweetly " don't stick,it in too deep too fast comrade"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Firethorn]

You claim to be against wasting money....  What does the embargo cost us vs the cost of Obama backing up to the Castro's and saying sweetly " don't stick,it in too deep too fast comrade"

What Obama does in the bedroom is his business.  It doesn't matter until he starts backing it up with US money, which he's currently forbidden by congress to do.  Obama's control of the purse strings is actually pretty limited.

I think you're letting your hatred of Obama blind you.  He could say the sky's blue and you'd try to disagree.  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  That doesn't mean that I agree with Obama's motivations for doing what he's doing.  Just that I, for quite different reasons, think that he's doing the right thing in this case.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You got it wrong. I hate the Castro's more than obama


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So what's the embargo cost us again?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Firethorn]

So what's the embargo cost us again?

Cuba shipping us it's criminals, inability to trade for cigars(before they ruined their tobacco), various fresh fruits & vegetables, all the other miscellaneous trading opportunities.  Not to mention the realistic ability to influence their actions.

Gripping hand - by banning 'everything' we lost all control.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The embargo caused cuba to send us it's criminals? Really?!?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TommyGunn]

The embargo Castro caused cuba to send us it's criminals? Really?!?

There, FIXED.  Merry Christmas!