Last of the Women Wash Out of Ranger School

[Ron]

The very fact one cannot speak freely about the differences between women and men in most circumstances does not bode well for the intellectual climate of this country. Same goes for race and sexuality.

We are being forced to speak nonsense and deny reality or else be ostracized.

[RoadKingLarry]

Right? Because being stronger, faster, and more fit has no place in special operations, and they give out participation medals for coming in 2nd place. 

They call them Purple Hearts, awarded posthumously.

[makattak]

The very fact one cannot speak freely about the differences between women and men in most circumstances does not bode well for the intellectual climate of this country. Same goes for race and sexuality.

We are being forced to speak nonsense and deny reality or else be ostracized.

From Theodore Dalrymple:

“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”

[Perd Hapley]

Right? Because being stronger, faster, and more fit has no place in special operations, and they give out participation medals for coming in 2nd place. 

Well, I didn't say all that. I'm just saying that they probably don't expect you to take out a Green Beret with your bare hands to pass Ranger School. Do you think they should?

[brimic]

Well, I didn't say all that. I'm just saying that they probably don't expect you to take out a Green Beret with your bare hands to pass Ranger School. Do you think they should?

Let me answer that with an analogy....

My son really, really likes playing football (American Football, not the stupid 3rd world version).
In particular, he wants to be a defensive back. He's played for a few years and is fairly good, has the motivation and drive.
Lets say he gets bored with playing with middle schoolers or thinks he's much better than he really is..
Should we push to have the standards lowered at the high school varsity level so that he can play for the local high school? Maybe reserve a few slots on the team for younger, less able kids, because diversity...
Sure, he's 12, and only weighs 105 lbs, but his motivation and drive should be enough to overcome the size, strength, speed of High School Seniors right? What could possibly go wrong?

[roo_ster]

The very fact one cannot speak freely about the differences between women and men in most circumstances does not bode well for the intellectual climate of this country. Same goes for race and sexuality.

We are being forced to speak nonsense and deny reality or else be ostracized.

By design.

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/men-are-stronger-than-women-on-average/?highlight=strength+women

Men Are Stronger Than Women (On Average)


Note that the categories are:
Blue--Undifferentiated young men
Red--Undifferentiated young women
Black--Female athletes.
There is no category for male athletes. Such a category would result in even greater disparity in means and distributions.

To give a concrete example of how far this goes, there are many liberal Left people who won’t even accede to the proposition that men are, on average, stronger in terms of upper body strength than women. A few years ago this came up on social media, where a friend who has a biology background from an elite university, even expressed skepticism at this, when I was trying to get her to be open to behavioral differences between the sexes by starting with something I thought she would at least agree with as reasonable. When I saw the lack of unequivocal acceptance of this point I decided to opt out of the conversation. This was basically face to face with Left Creationism.

But on Twitter recently I saw an article which quantifies the difference in concrete ways. To be honest the difference shocked me...

The upshot is that the very strongest female athletes are barely above the median of grip strength for men. The top 75th percentile of female athletes are below the bottom 25th percentile of men. Another way to look at it is cumulative distributions. You can tell looking at this that there is overlap between the two sample distributions. How much? Ten percent of women have stronger grips than the bottom five percent of men. The difference in distributions is big enough that the very strongest non-elite athlete female in the whole data set has a weaker grip than most of the men.

It is unlikely that the Army is getting the very strongest female athletes.  It is a bit of a gimme to assume that the Army's women have the top 25% of female athletes.  Why?  Because such women usually have much more remunerative options.  Anyway, assuming Army has roughly the top 25th percentile of women, 01%-02% of them hacking Ranger School is a very low probability event.

This does not even take into account that women are more injury-prone under similar conditions.  Which is why the tranny who fights as a woman in UFC has such an advantage.  He is stronger and his opponents are more likely to be injured/get knocked out by his blows.

Army did those women no favors and likely did them real harm by allowing this farce to go forward.

[wmenorr67]

What do you mean? 

My point was that the Army told those that they thought could pass they couldn't attend.

In other words the deck is stacked taller against any female actually passing.

[Perd Hapley]

Let me answer that with an analogy....

My son really, really likes playing football (American Football, not the stupid 3rd world version).
In particular, he wants to be a defensive back. He's played for a few years and is fairly good, has the motivation and drive.
Lets say he gets bored with playing with middle schoolers or thinks he's much better than he really is..
Should we push to have the standards lowered at the high school varsity level so that he can play for the local high school? Maybe reserve a few slots on the team for younger, less able kids, because diversity...
Sure, he's 12, and only weighs 105 lbs, but his motivation and drive should be enough to overcome the size, strength, speed of High School Seniors right? What could possibly go wrong?

I don't know anything about football. I'm still trying to figure out what a fistfight with a Green Beret has to do with these women failing Ranger school.

[brimic]

I don't know anything about football. I'm still trying to figure out what a fistfight with a Green Beret has to do with these women failing Ranger school.

Overall physical conditioning/strength. Quit being dense.
Whether its a rifle/knife/club that's used in combat, physical ability still matters- A LOT!

[brimic]

By design.

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/men-are-stronger-than-women-on-average/?highlight=strength+women

Men Are Stronger Than Women (On Average)


Note that the categories are:
Blue--Undifferentiated young men
Red--Undifferentiated young women
Black--Female athletes.
There is no category for male athletes. Such a category would result in even greater disparity in means and distributions.






It is unlikely that the Army is getting the very strongest female athletes.  It is a bit of a gimme to assume that the Army's women have the top 25% of female athletes.  Why?  Because such women usually have much more remunerative options.  Anyway, assuming Army has roughly the top 25th percentile of women, 01%-02% of them hacking Ranger School is a very low probability event.

This does not even take into account that women are more injury-prone under similar conditions.  Which is why the tranny who fights as a woman in UFC has such an advantage.  He is stronger and his opponents are more likely to be injured/get knocked out by his blows.

Army did those women no favors and likely did them real harm by allowing this farce to go forward.

So the 50th percentile woman has roughly the same physical ability as a skinny pants wearing hipster male? 

[lupinus]

So the 50th percentile woman has roughly the same physical ability as a skinny pants wearing hipster male? 

I rather consider it further confirmation dudes who are skinny pants wearing hipsters are actually really ugly flat chested chicks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Perd Hapley]

Overall physical conditioning/strength. Quit being dense.
Whether its a rifle/knife/club that's used in combat, physical ability still matters- A LOT!

OK, but has Ranger school traditionally measured physical ability by having the prospective Rangers spar with Green Berets? Has anyone ever failed because they lost a hand-to-hand fight? Do they even do hand-to-hand fighting in Ranger School?

Since you seem to want to talk about it, I'll just come out and say that you've seen too many Expendables films. Bar fights are, I think, pretty far down on the list of things that make one Ranger-qualified. That's not exactly their mission, nor is it what makes them a legendary special operations force.

[roo_ster]

To settle the dispute between fistful and brimic, I have digitized some video of our combatives training:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oRdxUFDoQe0#t=201




































No wonder they thought gals could make it through, we looked completely fey!

[Phantom Warrior]

My point was that the Army told those that they thought could pass they couldn't attend.

In other words the deck is stacked taller against any female actually passing.

Who got told they couldn't attend?

[wmenorr67]

Who got told they couldn't attend?

No one that I know of, but throwing out the possibility that some were told no, that might have actually passed.

They don't want anyone to pass.

[roo_ster]

No one that I know of, but throwing out the possibility that some were told no, that might have actually passed.

They don't want anyone to pass.

Er, wrong.  Most the big brass wants to be good PC lapdogs and would not have pushed this wet noodle of an idea this far unless they wanted it to happen.

And given my experience, the probability of any female--enlisted or officer--making it through Ranger School without changing the course approaches zero. 

[MillCreek]

But could Brienne of Tarth make it through?

(Sorry: my wife and I are now watching GOT, and I am impressed with Brienne)

[roo_ster]

But could Brienne of Tarth make it through?

(Sorry: my wife and I are now watching GOT, and I am impressed with Brienne)

I have watched GOT, but am unsure about that character.  Is the character wholly mundane or does she have some mystical mojo going on?

If mystical mojo, anything is possible because of the mystical component.  She could be trans-dragon for all we know.

If wholly mundane, nope, not probable.  My personal experience with competitive female olympic weightlifters and kickboxers, as well as female basketball players indicate that the Brienne character is a fantasy in no way grounded in reality.

The Brienne character is pretty much written in the "man with tits" line of fantastical female kickassery.  See David Weber's Honor Harrington books for another example of this type.  What would the character do/say differently if she were a man?  If the answer is "not much," the character likely is a man with female bits grafted on.

[Jocassee]

Here's a story to round out this thread.

My wife went to school with a girl who became a fitness freak type. Said chick came from a hyper fundy family that discouraged their wimmenz from being strong physical specimens (which is completely nonsensical, given the attitude towards childbearing in those same circles. But I digress)

Wife started working out with her while they were both at the Bob and the chick gained mass easily and became quite strong. So strong that she joined the USMC and they were going to send her to OCS.

Some of you have a notion of how difficult it is to get into USMC OCS. It is a highly selective program and in this day and age you cannot even consider getting in as a white male unless you are Jesus, and maybe not even then. (Also, Jesus wasn't White, but I digress yet again).

So this young lady secured her spot to go to OCS about a year out. In the mean time she came down with a debilitating sickness (mono I think), but had several months to recover after that. In the mean time,she became engaged to an enlisted man.

However, following the sickness, she failed to rebuild her strength, as in, failed to even try to obtain her previous muscle mass and endurance, but then proceeded to Quantico anyways, where she promptly washed out. The version I heard is that her family essentially really got onto her, despite the fact that she was living 800 miles away from home, telling her that if she worked out too much then she wouldn't be attractive, and probably some other head games as well.

So this pisses me off on several levels.

1. Her family is retarded.
2. Her enlisted boyfriend/fiancee obviously sucks because he didn't demonstrate enough leadership to quash her family's head games and get her back in the groove.
3. if men and women use the same set of slots for OCS, she wasted a slot that could have been given to a deserving woman, or more likely, a man. The fact that she did not recognize this does not bode well for her leadership potential or the Corps' analysis thereof.

[Scout26]

http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/07/ranger-school-women-pickle-jar/

[vaskidmark]

It would be as easy to teach them how to do it as it is to pass the skill down to our sons.

But that would open the floodgates on "man knowledge " that would be expected to also be released.

Without a strict one-for-one exchange of the girl rules there is no value in even discussing this.

Personally I think the secret of the pickle jar should only be released after the exchange of the secret of  why you all have to go to the bathroom together?

stay safe.

[Jocassee]

Personally I think the secret of the pickle jar should only be released after the exchange of the secret of  why you all have to go to the bathroom together?

stay safe.

H8er.

[Triphammer]

It was once explained to me that COSMO is the rule book. Reading by men is therefore forbidden. I tried reading one once, it made my brain hurt.

[Scout26]

To get back to the serious.


Ranger, BUD/S, Scout/Sniper and Combat Controller/Pararescue schools are all designed to to basically the same thing:  To wear you down physically to point you collapse mentally.  And the better shape you are in going in, the longer you will last.  They restrict the amount of food you get, so your body consumes not only all your fat stores, but even begins to consume muscle tissue as you work harder and harder to complete the phases and the missions within those phases.

My junior year, we had three hard-core hard-charging cadets attend Ranger School in lieu of Advance Camp (Which wasn't a picnic by any stretch), all three washed out.  One to the point where he was medically ineligible for a combat arms branch assignment.

Ranger School is designed to physically stress students to a point short of death

And from what I saw from peers that went to Ranger school, this is pretty accurate.  They looked like Concentration Camp survivors when they got back.   MY buddy Kevin told me that his mother broke down and cried when she saw how badly he looked afterwards when he got home.

But getting back to my point.  They will push you, and push you, and push you, until you break.  Mentally.    That's what it's all about.  Can you withstand the physical and mental strain to successfully complete the mission.

The second to last line of the Ranger Creed is:

Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor.

That's not a marketing gimmick, you have to really mean it when you say it.

[KD5NRH]

Ok, then the obvious question is what did fail them, if not the PT?

Accuracy.  I heard they actually did fairly well at peeing for distance, but hit the urinal even less often than the men.