Last of the Women Wash Out of Ranger School

[Ron]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420826/women-in-combat-military-effectiveness-deadly-pentagon

So why do men and perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women.

In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently. For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much overall higher tolerance for pain than women.

[KD5NRH]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420826/women-in-combat-military-effectiveness-deadly-pentagon

Still doesn't explain why there's a Women's Chess Federation.  I mean, does our greater upper body strength make actually moving the pieces less of a distraction for us?

[Perd Hapley]

So why do men and perform so differently in combat-related tasks? First, physiologically and psychologically, women and men are significantly different. Men are not simply bigger women with different plumbing. Men’s blood carries 10 to 12 percent more oxygen per liter than does a women’s; and men’s VO2 max, a measure of the top rate of oxygen consumption, is 40 to 60 percent greater than that of women. An average fit man will weigh about 23 percent more, have 50 percent more muscle mass, and carry 10 percent less body fat than an average fit woman. Pound for pound, men have thicker skulls, bigger, stronger necks, hearts that are 17 percent larger, and bones that are both bigger and denser. Despite being much heavier, men’s vertical leap is nearly 50 percent greater than that of women.

In terms of reflexes and reaction times, men significantly outperform women. When confronted with immediate danger, studies suggest men are “more likely than women to take action.” Women are far more likely to experience motion sickness and vertigo. In the Navy women go on sick call 60 to 70 percent more frequently. For the kind of violent events and situations found on the battlefield, women are far more likely to develop post-traumatic stress disorder and experience the symptoms for a longer duration than men. Despite the gender-specific ability to handle the pain of childbirth, “study after study” conclusively shows that men have a much overall higher tolerance for pain than women.

Hatefacts!

[makattak]

Still doesn't explain why there's a Women's Chess Federation.  I mean, does our greater upper body strength make actually moving the pieces less of a distraction for us?

Men's and women's brains are also ordered differently plus men tend to be over-represented on the high and low end of the intelligence curve.

Less obliquely: men do spatial reasoning better on average and there are more extremely intelligent men than there are extremely intelligent women.

[gunsmith]

are redheaded women really more prone to be able to kill?

[vaskidmark]

are redheaded women really more prone to be able to kill?

In a word - oh hell yes.

stay safe.

[White Horseradish]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420826/women-in-combat-military-effectiveness-deadly-pentagon

While it is true that countries such as Israel and Russia in the past, and the Kurdish military today, have been forced by dire circumstances to rely on women to literally defend their own persons, their children, and their house against savage invaders, thankfully we are in no such position.

This right here is bullshit.

These women were not defending their persons and children. Hell, most of them probably didn't have children to defend. Making wartime military service sound like chasing off a burglar is stupid and disrespectful.

[Ron]

This right here is bullshit.

These women were not defending their persons and children. Hell, most of them probably didn't have children to defend. Making wartime military service sound like chasing off a burglar is stupid and disrespectful.

I'm not sure why you think he is equating women taking up arms against invading armies as the same as burglars and thieves. You are seeing something that isn't there.

Israel was invaded by Egypt and Syria, Russia was invaded by Germany and the Kurds are under attack by the Islamic State; hardly burglars.

[RoadKingLarry]

are redheaded women really more prone to be able to kill?

If they don't kill ya they'll steal your soul.
That's where all the freckles come from, they get a new freckle for every soul they steal.

[White Horseradish]

I'm not sure why you think he is equating women taking up arms against invading armies as the same as burglars and thieves. You are seeing something that isn't there.

He is saying they are defending their persons and children. I think that flying night bombing missions is a bit more than personal defense.

[AJ Dual]

Hmm... maybe the new ruling the military is going to allow transgender soldiers is their way to get "women" to pass these tests?

[T.O.M.]

Just saw this article this morning...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article27659722.html

This article indicates three of the women recycled, and are in Mountain Phase.  All three are West Point grads.

[roo_ster]

Just saw this article this morning...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article27659722.html

This article indicates three of the women recycled, and are in Mountain Phase.  All three are West Point grads.

Read the article.  Smells like the fix is in.

[T.O.M.]

Read the article.  Smells like the fix is in.

The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try.  Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...

[makattak]

The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try.  Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...

I was also amused by the anecdote at the start that she led the whole group for a 1.8 MILE! hike and was leading the whole time.

Gee, almost TWO WHOLE MILES? Wow. Warrior, definitely.

[roo_ster]

The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try.  Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...

Very much this.  Also, she is not going to to be in good shape going up to Dahlonega.

Plus...all academy grads. 

I see two ways the fix might be in:

1. Brass declares "Thou shalt tab these women or your career is over."
Eventually, Ranger school would become a watered down joke like jump school, excising every component that would keep women from making it through.

2. RTB / Subversive elements let these three particular women through for a reason.
This way they can say, "Look, the standards are not too high to allow women to make it through.  These three super-dooper-female-paratroopers did it.  Of course, they had the advantage of the wonderful Academy training which set them up for success just like every shining example of martial puissance that steps through the Academy's door."  Letting a dribble through Ranger School to show it is not impossible, combined with stroking Academy brass ego, IOW.  They could maintain standards with a wink & nudge. 

There is a similar arrangement for when a Sergeant Major goes for his tab.  Such an old man has no business in Ranger School going for his tab.  RTB cadre will crush an officer every day of the week on his way to a tab no matter his rank if he can't cut it, but SGM get an easier path if they put up a good effort.  Of course, cadre and everyone else think the SGM is a POS for trying to tab when his body is no longer up to the task.  And most any SGM who has been infantry his whole career will be a (relative) physical wreck by the time he makes SGM.

[Phantom Warrior]

The thing that made me wonder was that all three had failed Patrol phase, I think twice,but "sailed through" on the third try.  Gotta wonder (or not) how that happens...

It doesn't read like that to me.  See this snippet from WeaponMan's ongoing coverage...

On their third attempt at Camp Darby, the three women all passed one patrol. None has passed two. None has failed more than one (one or possibly two has only been graded once). With them “tabbed out” on patrols — at least as far as Darby is concerned — the course managers stopped assigning them to graded positions. This is often, but not always, done for men. The graded positions on the last couple days of the phase are going to the guys who need a Darby patrol pass to avoid recycle or dismissal, not to students who have demonstrated that they can lead a patrol — male or female alike.

http://weaponsman.com/?p=23843

If you parse his earlier posts carefully (all worth reading) you get this for these three Ranger students...

06-15: Failed all patrols
07-15: Passed one patrol, failed to meet standards
08-15: Passed one patrol, met standards

Considering three female Ranger students failed the PT test, eight failed out during RAP Week, and five more were dismissed after their first recycle it doesn't seem rigged that three females (of the original 138 that reported to RTAC) could pass Darby Phase on their third try.

Mountain Phase (and Florida Phase) still remain.  That is a lot of suck to endure.  Especially on the legs.  We'll see what happens over the next several weeks.

[T.O.M.]

Phantom, interesting information.  I was only going from the article I linked to, which indicated two failed attempts, and the phrase "sailed through" was used by the author.

Im not opposed to a female wearing Ranger tab, so long as the tab was earned the same way it was by a male.  Hoping that's what is going on here...

[Fitz]

Phantom, interesting information.  I was only going from the article I linked to, which indicated two failed attempts, and the phrase "sailed through" was used by the author.

Im not opposed to a female wearing Ranger tab, so long as the tab was earned the same way it was by a male.  Hoping that's what is going on here...

Recycling is fairly common for males too, and I havent YET seen any evidence of them being given preferential treatment.

We shall see

[wmenorr67]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/18/army-ranger-school-to-graduate-its-first-two-women/?intcmp=hpbt3

Well it looks like two actually recycled enough to pass.

[T.O.M.]

At first, every article I read did not list the names of the women.  And I felt hope that maybe the Army was going to avoid putting the women in the spotlight and yelling "Look at us!  We are diverse and inclusive!  Aren't we awesome?"  You know, no dog and pony show.  Let them graduate and the press can track them down later...

Then I found this article...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/army-ranger-school-first-female-graduates-names-announced-thursday/

Full press dog and pony show on Thursday.  Which will only be the opening act for this...

http://www.havokjournal.com/nation/president-plans-to-attend-ranger-school-ceremony-this-guarantees-first-women-will-graduate/

Obama is going to attend and (I'm guessing) put the tabs on these women himself.  Announce how great he is that he gave women these opportunities.  And he made them Rangers.

My hope is gone.  Back to skepticism...

[zxcvbob]

My hope is gone.  Back to skepticism...

You'll be a lot happier that way.

[makattak]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/18/army-ranger-school-to-graduate-its-first-two-women/?intcmp=hpbt3

Well it looks like two actually recycled enough to pass.

I simultaneously knew that they would have women passing the school and that the chances of the women being capable of passing were infinitesimal. Further, it wasn't cognitive dissonance to hold those two positions.

[dogmush]

I still have yet to see any indication that any standards were lowered for this.

Perhaps their classmates will tell a different story once they get out into the field, but if so I'd expect us (folks in the Army) to know that about as quickly as the details of Bergdahl's leaving.  Which is to say so fast it used quantum commo gear.

Until I see such indications, I'm going to assume they passed the real thing, and offer my congratulations to them.  I wouldn't want to go through that *expletive deleted*it.

[RevDisk]

I still have yet to see any indication that any standards were lowered for this.

Perhaps their classmates will tell a different story once they get out into the field, but if so I'd expect us (folks in the Army) to know that about as quickly as the details of Bergdahl's leaving.  Which is to say so fast it used quantum commo gear.

Until I see such indications, I'm going to assume they passed the real thing, and offer my congratulations to them.  I wouldn't want to go through that *expletive deleted*it.

Same. Until otherwise proven, they deserve the benefit of a doubt. Don't forget, soldiers don't always ask to be given the lime light. PFC Lynch was one example. She didn't do anything wrong whatsoever, was presented by the brass as a Certified Hero, and kept bloody well silent as her brother was still in. Not saying that if she said the wrong things, her brother would be given back to back deployments as a mine sweeper in the most hostile zones they could find, but anyone with half a brain wouldn't dismiss the possibility. She did the smart thing, kept her mouth shut, got the hell out and kept a low profile since.

If it was a total con job, yeah, the entire Army across the entire planet will know about 3 minutes after the graduation ceremony is over. From what little I've heard, there was pressure to open up Ranger units to females, standards haven't been deliberately tanked, but folks are nervous as hell of what happens if female recruits bomb out in the expected numbers. From what one triple tab NCO told me, the going bet is that they'll grease the wheels for any female that would just barely fail in hopes that the standards aren't gutted completely. Not a complete con job, but mostly like what Rooster said, Sergeant Major treatment. More lenient than maybe it should be, but not a complete travesty. Mind you, that's the informal groupthink, and might not be what actually happened.