Cruz Derangement Syndrome

[just Warren]

If we're talking politics then that ain't chocolate.

[230RN]

That's the real shame, the angry voters backing Trump... if they really wanted to "hurt" the beltway crowd, Cruz is who they want.

Good point.  Although not a big deal MSM news-wise, Gura's endorsement of him meant a lot to me.

[brimic]

I really just don't buy Trump as an outsider.

He is an insider that is muscling in on the action.

After a lifetime of swimming in the same waters as the elite he realized he could school them at their own game.

I still say his campaign is a clinton Op.
There is no other way to explain the amount of left wing media attention he's getting.

Remember: The media also loved, and I mean LOVED McCain- up until the moment he got the nomination.
Once Trump gets the nomination, I think all of his skeletons, and there will be a lot of them, will be aired 24/7 up until the election.

[Ron]

Cruz has a history of being on our side as an advocate of constitutional government; particularly noteworthy is his historic advocacy of our second amendment right.

Trump has a long history of not having a recognizable core belief system.

The establishment will probably breath a sigh of relief if Trump beats out Cruz. Trump they can make deals with, he isn't wedded to any rigid philosophy or system of morality. They will just need to sweeten the deal to get him to go along with the program.



 

[roo_ster]

Cruz has a history of being on our side as an advocate of constitutional government; particularly noteworthy is his historic advocacy of our second amendment right.

Trump has a long history of not having a recognizable core belief system.

The establishment will probably breath a sigh of relief if Trump beats out Cruz. Trump they can make deals with, he isn't wedded to any rigid philosophy or system of morality. They will just need to sweeten the deal to get him to go along with the program.

Yes, while Cruz stands stalwart, telling GOPe and the moneybags, "No!  Send me not your filthy lucre by which you seek me to betray mine oaths.  I will stand, with manly firmness, for my beliefs.  Even, yea, as you call in the loans the repayment of which would be my ruin, my children's peonage, and cause my wife to forego forever the delightful confines of Neiman Marcus for the vulgar aisles of Costco."

Again, not getting the reason many folk are in favor of Trump.  And that ideology in American politics is yielding to nationalism.  A nationalistic GOP or GOP-replacement is much more hateful to GOPe and the donor class than yet another ineffectual ideologue who throws boob bait for Bubba while doing the will of the donor class.

[MechAg94]

At least Cruz doesn't have a history of supporting Nancy Pelosi and Hilary Clinton. 

[roo_ster]

At least Cruz doesn't have a history of supporting Nancy Pelosi and Hilary Clinton. 

Pretty much to be expected that businessfolk who engage in business regulated by gov't will schmooze folks in gov't.  IIRC, Trump even PAID HR Clinton to attend her daughter's wedding.  Heck, I'll bet he has contributed $$$ to every mayor of NYC since he took over the family business.  Real estate & construction is one of those sectors where you get your hands dirty, in more than one way.

OTOH, Cruz has never had a real non-political/non-lawyerly job.  Certainly no job in an industry so heavily regulated by local, state, and fed.gov where it is necessary to interact with policritters regularly to get their approval to keep his business rolling.

I am not a "get a businessman to run the gov't" or a "run gov't along business principles" sort, but having a little experience outside gov't bureaucracy would be nice to see on Cruz's CV.  Business, military service, something other than gov't job-hopping.

[Perd Hapley]

Ah, a common symptom of CDS or TDS. Cruz is not to be trusted because he might sell out to a bank. Trump has already sold out, but that's OK.

So far, Cruz's "job-hopping" has been quite beneficial to us. I wish him Godspeed.

[Scout26]

I find it truly laughable that there are people who believe that Trump with "blow up the GOPe".  Seriously?!?!?  You say that with a straight face??

Trump is the wheeler-dealer deal maker.  He'll sell out to the Beltway Establishment before he'd even swear the oath of office.

Yeah, he might build a wall, but he'll expand the H1B visa program, and create so many exceptions (and so little enforcement) that Trump's Wall will be a sieve.  Remember, he's a business man.  And once the US Chamber of Commerce (We Need Cheap Labor !!!), buttonholes him the wall will be a joke.

Yeah he might throw some out some bones to those that have pinned their hopes to him.  Make America Great Again, which sounds like Hope and Change, and we'll have to elect him to find out what that means.   As I posted on FB, this cycle's Trump voters where the two cycle ago Obama voters.   Blind to what Trump has said and done in the past, with his hand-waveium of now. 

And I find it odd that Cruz's minor deviations from Originalist Constitutional Conservativism are treated as major sins, while Trump's flip-flops and sudden "Conversion" to somewhat of a Conservative, is treated like Moses coming down from the mountain.

And if you think that Trump is more Christian than Cruz, I've got lot of Ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

[roo_ster]

I find it truly laughable that there are people who believe that Trump with "blow up the GOPe".  Seriously?!?!?  You say that with a straight face??

Trump is the wheeler-dealer deal maker.  He'll sell out to the Beltway Establishment before he'd even swear the oath of office.

Yeah, he might build a wall, but he'll expand the H1B visa program, and create so many exceptions (and so little enforcement) that Trump's Wall will be a sieve.  Remember, he's a business man.  And once the US Chamber of Commerce (We Need Cheap Labor !!!), buttonholes him the wall will be a joke.

Yeah he might throw some out some bones to those that have pinned their hopes to him.  Make America Great Again, which sounds like Hope and Change, and we'll have to elect him to find out what that means.   As I posted on FB, this cycle's Trump voters where the two cycle ago Obama voters.   Blind to what Trump has said and done in the past, with his hand-waveium of now. 

And I find it odd that Cruz's minor deviations from Originalist Constitutional Conservativism are treated as major sins, while Trump's flip-flops and sudden "Conversion" to somewhat of a Conservative, is treated like Moses coming down from the mountain.

And if you think that Trump is more Christian than Cruz, I've got lot of Ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

Exit polling shows that this cycle's Trump voters were most likely to vote for Romney last go 'round.  I was surprised by that, but there you are.  For example:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-wins-nevada-caucus_us_56cdaa7ae4b0ec6725e47950

That is about the only fact or objective data in the post.  As for the rest, I hope you get better:

[brimic]

Exit polling shows that this cycle's Trump voters were most likely to vote for Romney last go 'round.  I was surprised by that, but there you are.  For example:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-wins-nevada-caucus_us_56cdaa7ae4b0ec6725e47950

That is about the only fact or objective data in the post.  As for the rest, I hope you get better:

All that shows is that Americans, and by that I mean a large percentage of them are easily duped.

There are a lot of people who are going to be very disappointed with Trump, if he gets elected at all.

I liked trump at first, but my BS meter is pegged with him, I'm just having a hard time with others not seeing it too.

[makattak]

All that shows is that Americans, and by that I mean a large percentage of them are easily duped.

There are a lot of people who are going to be very disappointed with Trump, if he gets elected at all.

I liked trump at first, but my BS meter is pegged with him, I'm just having a hard time with others not seeing it too.

I'm an optimist, so I prefer to look on the bright side.

I expect the worst, so no matter what, I won't be disappointed by Trump and can only be pleasantly surprised.

[roo_ster]

All that shows is that Americans, and by that I mean a large percentage of them are easily duped.

There are a lot of people who are going to be very disappointed with Trump, if he gets elected at all.

I liked trump at first, but my BS meter is pegged with him, I'm just having a hard time with others not seeing it too.

Welcome to America, where we elected FDR four times in a row.

Trump is a political unknown, which is part of his allure to some.  For them, the roll of the dice beats the surety of continued status-quo with the Bush-Rubio-Cruz-Kasich-bot. 

Behind curtain #1 lies the same old kick in the jimmy.  Behind curtain #2 may be another kick in the jimmy...or a kiss on the cheek...or a rogering by a rampant ibex. 

[brimic]

You mean this trump?

[makattak]

Welcome to America, where we elected FDR four times in a row.

Trump is a political unknown, which is part of his allure to some.  For them, the roll of the dice beats the surety of continued status-quo with the Bush-Rubio-Cruz-Kasich-bot.  

Behind curtain #1 lies the same old kick in the jimmy.  Behind curtain #2 may be another kick in the jimmy...or a kiss on the cheek...or a rogering by a rampant ibex.  

I was listening to Newt and he nailed it exactly. Trump might be just the thing to shake up Washington. OR he might be an unmitigated disaster. I'm not sure I can even lay odds- personally I put option two as greater than 50%.

In any case, he's a risk.  I don't trust him at all, and believe the risks he's lying are quite high, so I'd prefer not to take that risk.

Cruz is not a risk(at least, comparatively so.) He may be fully stymied by the Washington cartel, but his chances of being an unmitigated disaster are smaller.

Like most people, I'm risk averse, so I prefer Cruz. Much higher chance of success, but lower possible payout. (In terms of expected payout, he's WAY higher, but there is a chance Trump would shock the country into a return to constitutionalism and the rule of law. I just put that chance VERY low.)

[Ben]

I was listening to Newt and he nailed it exactly. Trump might be just the thing to shake up Washington. OR he might be an unmitigated disaster. I'm not sure I can even lay odds- personally I put option two as greater than 50%.

Well, looking at it realistically from my current status, if we're looking at "burn this bitch down", Sanders would royally screw me and my retirement. Clinton would screw me. Trump might burn things down, but there's a higher probability that I'd be less negatively affected by anything Trump does, and there's at least a chance for a positive effect. There are no positives with Clinton or Sanders -- unless you consider a greater velocity heading towards the bottom, just to get things over with, a positive.

[Perd Hapley]

Exit polling shows that this cycle's Trump voters were most likely to vote for Romney last go 'round.  I was surprised by that, but there you are.  For example:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-wins-nevada-caucus_us_56cdaa7ae4b0ec6725e47950

I don't see anything in the article about Romney voters going for Trump. What I do see is that the article claims that Trump "disparaged" Latinos, and that Carson dropped out the race weeks ago.

Cruz has taken over HuffPo!!

[charby]

I find it truly laughable that there are people who believe that Trump with "blow up the GOPe".  Seriously?!?!?  You say that with a straight face??

Trump is the wheeler-dealer deal maker.  He'll sell out to the Beltway Establishment before he'd even swear the oath of office.

Yeah, he might build a wall, but he'll expand the H1B visa program, and create so many exceptions (and so little enforcement) that Trump's Wall will be a sieve.  Remember, he's a business man.  And once the US Chamber of Commerce (We Need Cheap Labor !!!), buttonholes him the wall will be a joke.

Yeah he might throw some out some bones to those that have pinned their hopes to him.  Make America Great Again, which sounds like Hope and Change, and we'll have to elect him to find out what that means.   As I posted on FB, this cycle's Trump voters where the two cycle ago Obama voters.   Blind to what Trump has said and done in the past, with his hand-waveium of now.  

And I find it odd that Cruz's minor deviations from Originalist Constitutional Conservativism are treated as major sins, while Trump's flip-flops and sudden "Conversion" to somewhat of a Conservative, is treated like Moses coming down from the mountain.

And if you think that Trump is more Christian than Cruz, I've got lot of Ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

My opinion is if a politician was serious about illegal immigration there would be a focus of punishment on the types of businesses that hire undocumented workers. The talk of a wall is just to get votes.

[roo_ster]

I was listening to Newt and he nailed it exactly. Trump might be just the thing to shake up Washington. OR he might be an unmitigated disaster. I'm not sure I can even lay odds- personally I put option two as greater than 50%.

In any case, he's a risk.  I don't trust him at all, and believe the risks he's lying are quite high, so I'd prefer not to take that risk.

Cruz is not a risk(at least, comparatively so.) He may be fully stymied by the Washington cartel, but his chances of being an unmitigated disaster are smaller.

Like most people, I'm risk averse, so I prefer Cruz. Much higher chance of success, but lower possible payout. (In terms of expected payout, he's WAY higher, but there is a chance Trump would shock the country into a return to constitutionalism and the rule of law. I just put that chance VERY low.)

I make similar calculations, with similar odds.  I judge the consequences of maintaining the status quo to be dire enough to roll the dice.  Even if the odds of success are not in our favor.  But, the odds most definitely are not in our favor and have not been for some time.

IMO, Cruz is merely status quo with more brains and better instincts.  I bring up evidence of his two-facedness not to indicate that he is some sort of monster, but that he is no different from any likely GOP candidate/nominee in the last several cycles.  Of course the Cruz partisans can not abide to see their angel sullied, so must accuse of being mentally ill those critics who give him the gimlet eye. 

Cruz is no demon.  He is Rubio with 30 more IQ points, more inner drive, and the ability to see and seize political opportunities.

I don't see anything in the article about Romney voters going for Trump.

Keep reading to the bottom.  I could not find the article I read with the better laid-out data, but it has bits here & there. 

I was a bit surprised by the Romney/Trump connection, but in retrospect maybe I ought not be.  Both made their $$$ in the northeast, both have past at odds with doctrinaire establishment conservatism(1), both wealthy businessmen. 

(1)

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

All that shows is that Americans, and by that I mean a large percentage of them are easily duped.

There are a lot of people who are going to be very disappointed with Trump, if he gets elected at all.

I liked trump at first, but my BS meter is pegged with him, I'm just having a hard time with others not seeing it too.

I don't think Trump supporters are duped. I think they are pissed the *expletive deleted*ck off at the establishment. I know I am.

[Perd Hapley]

IMO, Cruz is merely status quo with more brains and better instincts.  I bring up evidence of his two-facedness not to indicate that he is some sort of monster, but that he is no different from any likely GOP candidate/nominee in the last several cycles.  Of course the Cruz partisans can not abide to see their angel sullied, so must accuse of being mentally ill those critics who give him the gimlet eye. 

Oh stop.    No one thought that "Bush Derangement Syndrome" or "Obama Derangement Syndrome" were diagnoses of actual mental illness. 's funny. I actually started this thread after seeing a Trump supporter on another forum decrying the anti-Trump "hysteria" of Republicans that weren't all-in for the Donald.

Personally, it's not sullying the angel that bothers me, in and of itself. What boggles, what mystifies, what rankles; is that people like you and I have been saying for several years that we wanted the GOP to run an actual "small-government" or "conservative" or "real" Republican candidate. Yet here we are, staring at the closest to that we're likely to see in our lifetime, and some of us are tearing down the "angel," and instead pushing someone who is nowhere close to being that kind of Republican. Someone who's only recently begun pretending to be a Republican. I don't think reason explains that.

[AJ Dual]

Oh stop.    No one thought that "Bush Derangement Syndrome" or "Obama Derangement Syndrome" were diagnoses of actual mental illness. 's funny. I actually started this thread after seeing a Trump supporter on another forum decrying the anti-Trump "hysteria" of Republicans that weren't all-in for the Donald.

Personally, it's not sullying the angel that bothers me, in and of itself. What boggles, what mystifies, what rankles; is that people like you and I have been saying for several years that we wanted the GOP to run an actual "small-government" or "conservative" or "real" Republican candidate. Yet here we are, staring at the closest to that we're likely to see in our lifetime, and some of us are tearing down the "angel," and instead pushing someone who is nowhere close to being that kind of Republican. Someone who's only recently begun pretending to be a Republican. I don't think reason explains that.

There's a lot of this cog-dis going round.

It was just a few years ago that Rubio was the crowning achievement of the Tea Party when they, or at least Tea Party-ish sentiments sent Crist packing in the primary.

Granted, he did a lot of damage to his credibility with the gang-of-8 fiasco, and he could have actually used it to recoup some of it by simply apologizing, and using it as an opportunity to point out Democrat duplicity on the issue, and that they can't be trusted, but still... now he's the leading GOPe candidate, and above and beyond that roo_ster is convinced Cruz is GOPe too. (shrug)

Honestly, I chalk it all up to the damage done to the entire American psyche the past eight years. All of us. 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Cruz is nowhere near the "close enough" conservative. Not even in he same solar system. He is an establishment hack, albeit a young one, but still a hack.  If I vote, I will vote for the republican candidate, not for them, but against the democrat.

People are tired of the establishment. Establishment defined as BOTH political parties. Only difference between the Rs and Ds is the speed of the handbasket headed to hell;  the republicans take the Sunday drive while the democrats use the express lane.

I am to the point that we are past any solution that requires voting for / electing "whoever" to fix this country.

[brimic]

I don't think Trump supporters are duped. I think they are pissed the *expletive deleted*ck off at the establishment. I know I am.

Oh I get that, hence the reason why I cheered Trump early on. However, if you objectively look at Trump, there is no way you can come away believing his bullshit. He doesn't have a plan, he has platitudes, he tells you what you want to hear. He's mothing mire than right wing hopey-changey, with the actual right wing thing being questionable.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Oh I get that, hence the reason why I cheered Trump early on. However, if you objectively look at Trump, there is no way you can come away believing his bullshit. He doesn't have a plan, he has platitudes, he tells you what you want to hear. He's mothing mire than right wing hopey-changey, with the actual right wing thing being questionable.

Never said I believed him or supported him. His bullshit is the same as the BS Cruz, Rubio, Carson and Kasich are spewing, just a different flavor.