Author Topic: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez  (Read 7499 times)

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,099
  • I'm an Extremist!
Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« on: January 09, 2010, 07:09:08 PM »
It seems (but you never know) unlikely that the water will drop to the point of a full shut down. The article was of interest to me though, because I didn't know their power grid had that one ginormous fail point. Major Achilles' heel if he finally pisses the wrong people off enough.

------------------

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582682,00.html

Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez

Saturday , January 09, 2010

AP
ADVERTISEMENT

CARACAS, Venezuela —
Venezuela is at risk of a devastating power collapse as drought pushes water levels precariously low in the country's biggest hydroelectric dam, posing a serious political threat for President Hugo Chavez.

Chavez on Friday said his government is determined to keep Guri Dam from falling to a critical level where the turbines start to fail in the next several months. He has also imposed rationing measures that include penalty fees for energy overuse, shorter workdays for many public employees and reduced hours for shopping malls.

The entire South American country of 28 million people depends to a large degree on the massive Guri Dam, which holds back the Caroni River in southeastern Bolivar state. It supplies 73 percent of the country's electricity by feeding the massive Guri hydroelectric plant — the world's third-largest in power output — along with two other smaller plants.

Chavez said that the dam's water level is now about 33 feet below where it was last year, and if it falls 82 feet more before the dry season ends, "we would be at a standstill."

Chavez said that would force the government to suspend the generation of about 5,000 megawatts of power — causing blackouts for large swaths of Venezuela.

"We can't allow the water to reach this level," Chavez said. He said officials are aiming to prevent it by diminishing power generation at Guri and decreasing the flow of water that moves through the turbines.

Government officials say their rationing plan should help the country reach May, when seasonal rains are predicted to return. But even Chavez concedes the situation is serious. His past efforts to solve the problem have included sending cloud-seeding planes to produce rain with the help of Cuba.

An internal report by the state company Electricidad del Caroni, which oversees the dam, was recently published in the Venezuelan press and predicted that if water levels keep falling at current rates, the dam could reach a critical level in about four months.

Experts say the amount of water reaching the turbines could eventually decrease to such an extent that they would no longer feed the power grid.

"We'd be in a situation where we'd have to halt the country, the entire economy," said Victor Poleo, an oil economics professor at Venezuela's Central University and a former official in Chavez's Energy Ministry. Without power from Guri, he said, the country's existing gas- and oil-fired power plants would be able to cover only about 20 percent of the demand — producing widespread and sustained outages.

Chavez, seeking to avoid increased blackouts and the public anger that would accompany them, is taking a range of actions to try to close the electricity gap. He said repairs on two large thermoelectric plants should yield about 700 megawatts in the near future, and the government is also installing about a dozen smaller 12-megawatt plants elsewhere that he said should be ready later this month.

For now, his government has determined its best hope of averting disaster is to reduce electricity usage through rationing. Measures include penalty fees for businesses and other big customers that don't meet 20-percent reduction targets. Billboards are required to switch to efficient lighting.

Many malls have been forced to reduce hours, with most of their stores operating from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m.

Long lines have formed outside some shopping centers in the mornings, with people waiting to reach offices inside.

"Usually this is easy at this hour. Look at this disaster," said Oswaldo Dominguez, 67, who was waiting to pay a bill.

Lawyer Jose Cisneros, 52, waiting to buy a new cell phone, added, "I've lost half the day." He blamed the government, saying a lack of planning has left the electrical system in shambles.

After widespread complaints, the government loosened its mall shutdown order, allowing some businesses such as medical offices and supermarkets to open at regular hours.

The government has also partially shut down state-run steel and aluminum plants.

Chavez said the government will offer incentives for families that use less electricity. He also announced Friday that many public employees will have shorter workdays — from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. — except those in offices that tend to the public.

The rationing has some concerned. Andres Perez, president of the industrial chamber in central Carabobo state, said he doubts Guri Dam will be permitted to fail, but said many factories are bracing for the possibility of extended power outages — which could contribute to shortages of some goods.

Some parts of the country have already been enduring regular blackouts for months, as demand has outstripped the electrical supply.

Poleo said Guri Dam's three hydroelectric plants are now producing about 14,000 megawatts instead of the normal capacity of 15,300 megawatts.

"If that dam reaches its critical point, filling it is really a two- to three-year job," he said.

Chavez has blamed the electricity predicament on the El Nino weather phenomenon in the Pacific Ocean, along with global warming. But critics blame the government, saying investments in infrastructure haven't kept up in spite of Venezuela's bountiful oil earnings.

Poleo said investments have been hobbled by a lack of planning, waste and corruption, and that based on his research only about 25 percent to 30 percent of the funds approved for infrastructure upgrades have reached their intended uses.

The government's electricity minister, Angel Rodriguez, was not available to respond to the accusations.

Rodriguez was quoted by the Venezuelan newspaper El Mundo earlier in the week as saying that the government has invested heavily in upgrades, and that many are long-term projects rather than immediate solutions. The government says it has spent about $16.5 billion since 2002 in the electrical sector to meet rising consumer demand.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Standing Wolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,978
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 08:45:56 PM »
Another socialist triumph.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 09:51:49 PM »
All Chavez has to do is put a few garden hoses in the river to fill it up.   =D
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,628
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 01:32:38 AM »
He also devalued their currency 50% effective Monday. That should be fun.
He did it after claiming earlier that the worldwide recession would not hurt Venezuela. 
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,650
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 03:07:19 PM »
Is the CIA capable of clandestinely putting a couple of handfulls of sand in the Guri dam turbine's bearings?  >:D
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Standing Wolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,978
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 04:40:51 PM »
Quote
Is the CIA capable of clandestinely putting a couple of handfulls of sand in the Guri dam turbine's bearings?

That's conceivable, but can you imagine the current occupant of the White House authorizing hostile action against a fellow Marxist?
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 06:53:36 PM »
Is the CIA capable of clandestinely putting a couple of handfulls of sand in the Guri dam turbine's bearings?  >:D

Perhaps something like this would be appropriate?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 08:56:16 AM »
If only Venezuela had capitalism, entrepreneurs would supply more rain, and the dam would be working just fine.

How exactly does this situation call for sabotaging Venezuela? It's their country to manage as they please.  I see no reason to get upset because they want some economic system other than American capitalism. 
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,099
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 09:02:45 AM »
Who's getting upset? I simply pointed out an overt strategic weakness in their infrastructure. I'm sure if it had been America, you would be equally outraged.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 09:11:54 AM »
How exactly does this situation call for sabotaging Venezuela? It's their country to manage as they please.  I see no reason to get upset because they want some economic system other than American capitalism. 

SHootinstudent:

Do you believe America should never, ever intervene in the internal politics of a sovereign state?

That such a thing would be always, irreparably wrong?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 09:17:30 AM »
Who's getting upset? I simply pointed out an overt strategic weakness in their infrastructure. I'm sure if it had been America, you would be equally outraged.

I was referring to that comment about putting sand in the machine, not your pointing out that Venezuela's infrastructure isn't up to snuff.  And I agree with you that this could be a major stumbling block for Chavez.

"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 09:20:20 AM »
SHootinstudent:

Do you believe America should never, ever intervene in the internal politics of a sovereign state?

That such a thing would be always, irreparably wrong?

No, it obviously isn't always wrong.  However, intervening in the politics of another state by sabotage merely because that state wants to run itself on a different economic model?  That does more damage to the concept of property than socialism. 

It's not our country, its oil isn't our property, and its people are entitled to choose for themselves what they'll do with their own homeland.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 09:35:03 AM »
If only Venezuela had capitalism, entrepreneurs would supply more rain, and the dam would be working just fine.

How exactly does this situation call for sabotaging Venezuela? It's their country to manage as they please.  I see no reason to get upset because they want some economic system other than American capitalism. 

It has everything to do with destablizing a regime that is outwardly and overtly critical, and has sought outwardly and overtly destabilize the United States. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

De Selby

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,836
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 09:38:35 AM »
It has everything to do with destablizing a regime that is outwardly and overtly critical, and has sought outwardly and overtly destabilize the United States.  

The criticism I don't mind.  That's another thing I think people are free to do: if Chavez wants to do the dog and pony show every week on television calling Bush/Obama/whoeverelse names, that doesn't bother me.  Maybe if he'd spent all those one hour segments considering options for power grids instead of ragging on GW Chavez wouldn't be in this position.

I'm not really aware of a realistic attempt to "destabilize the United States" by Venezuela, but if there is one, I'd rather have it persist as a source of cheap entertainment than kill it.  I can't think of anything close to a real world scenario where Venezuela (the place that is a few meters of water away from being completely in the dark) can threaten the stability of the U.S.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 10:34:33 AM »
Quote
No, it obviously isn't always wrong.  However, intervening in the politics of another state by sabotage merely because that state wants to run itself on a different economic model?  That does more damage to the concept of property than socialism.

So you believe that a country can switch itself to, say, land socialism, nationalize all the land and move to a rationing system (like, say, Israel in the 1950's), and there's no human rights being violated? At all?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,099
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2010, 10:59:18 AM »
I'm not really aware of a realistic attempt to "destabilize the United States" by Venezuela, but if there is one, I'd rather have it persist as a source of cheap entertainment than kill it.  I can't think of anything close to a real world scenario where Venezuela (the place that is a few meters of water away from being completely in the dark) can threaten the stability of the U.S.

Chavez is indeed, in my opinion, mostly a "big fish in a little pond" blowhard, at least regarding what he can do outside his region. It is highly likely the US doesn't really have to do anything to destabilize his Regime other than to sit back and let him do all the work himself (and if we're not destabilizing, we also shouldn't be "reaching out to him"). That doesn't mean the Venezuelans aren't suffering under his policies.

It also doesn't mean that, unstable as HE is, separate from his country, that he might not do something incredibly stupid and terrorist-like to the US or someone else. Someone who might decide to retaliate.  
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2010, 04:06:47 PM »
Us overtly acting in any way that can be even tentatively documented or reasonably alleged would be the biggest favor we could do for Chavez.

Far better to simply watch him fail with absolutely clean hands, so no one gives his attempts to blame us any credibility.

Enjoy the schadenfreude.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2010, 04:13:42 PM »
1. I agree with Carebear.

2. Marxism is by definition a philosophy bent on global domination, and opposing it is always a good thing.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 04:40:02 PM »
If only Venezuela had capitalism, entrepreneurs would supply more rain, and the dam would be working just fine.

No, but they might have more sources of power than the one dam.  And they might have the brain capital to run them more effectively.

Jis sayin'.

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,195
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 09:20:45 PM »
Paging VFA-195...  [popcorn]
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2010, 11:33:15 AM »
So you believe that a country can switch itself to, say, land socialism, nationalize all the land and move to a rationing system (like, say, Israel in the 1950's), and there's no human rights being violated? At all?

This.

So many folks seem to think that taking away every material item someone has  or will ever have is not a serious violation of that person's liberty and personal sovereignty. 
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,650
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2010, 02:09:28 PM »
So many folks seem to think that taking away every material item someone has  or will ever have is not a serious violation of that person's liberty and personal sovereignty. 
Maybe they figure they'll be among the takers . . .
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2010, 05:45:48 PM »
Then they're dumb.  There are a lot more of them eager take from you than there are of you trying to take from them.

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 10:40:09 AM »
Yet another article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60B56Y20100112?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Quote
Venezuela plans blackouts in Caracas, oil town
Marianns Parraga
CARACAS

Mon, Jan 4 2010
CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela will switch off lights for hours at a time in Caracas and other cities such as oil town Maracaibo in planned blackouts to tackle power shortages that threaten President Hugo Chavez's support.

World

Officials announced the nationwide electricity rationing lasting at least until May on Tuesday and said even schools and small health clinics would be hit in South America's top oil exporter.

Venezuela mostly depends on hydroelectricity for its power and has been hard hit by a drought Chavez blames on the El Nino weather phenomenon.

"The rationing is at a national level and is for four hours every 48 hours," said Javier Alvarado, president of the Caracas Electricity corporation, which was nationalized in 2007 and previously belonged to U.S. company AES.

One of the cities to be hit by the new electricity rationing is Maracaibo, the country's second largest town and the capital of oil heartland Zulia.

Lights went out there on Tuesday from 3 p.m. (2:30 p.m. EST). The blackouts are planned by city district.

However, they should not affect vital oil fields and refineries, which mostly have their own generators. Major city services, like hospitals and trains, will also not be affected.

Venezuelans are already suffering widespread water rationing and increased power cuts and could punish the socialist president for the problems in September elections for lawmakers.

Chavez must navigate a number of issues, including price rises after a devaluation and high crime, if he is to maintain his approval ratings above 50 percent this year.

Venezuela enlisted Cuban help to "bomb" clouds with chemicals last month in an attempt to artificially trigger rainfall over the South American nation's largest reservoir and main power source, the vast Guri Dam.

Alvarado said water levels at the Dam dropped by 9 meters (30 feet) to 261 meters above sea level last year. Energy production is diminished as the water level falls. The dams turbines are located at 240 meters above sea level.

Critics blame the government for not investing enough in the national grid since Chavez took office 11 years ago.

The president say previous government made critical errors by building most of the nations energy infrastructure on one river that is affected by rainfall.

(Reporting by Frank Jack Daniel; Editing by Marguerita Choy)

I realize it is older than the original story, but this caught my eye:

Quote
Critics blame the government for not investing enough in the national grid since Chavez took office 11 years ago.

The president say previous government made critical errors by building most of the nations energy infrastructure on one river that is affected by rainfall.

Aside form the poor verb-subject agreement, Chavez has been in office for ELEVEN YEARS and is still blaming the previous administration.

No wonder the Democrats still try to get traction out of blame Bush.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,976
Re: Risk of Power Collapse Poses Political Threat to Chavez
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2010, 04:45:23 PM »
But they have oil!

I'm sure Chavez can get a couple dozen Honda generators and the lights will be back on in no time.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!