Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on October 02, 2013, 01:55:15 PM
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http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fines-to-be-seized-from-bank-accounts/
Snip:
Will Sheehan claims that when he tried to sign up for Obamacare and then register to opt out, he received an ominous warning. Sheehan’s full Facebook post reads;
“I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 “Silver Plan” and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I “opt-out” and chose to continue along with no insurance.
I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the “REPERCUSSIONS PORTION” for “non-payment” of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with “Non-Payment” and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy “Automatically withdraw” your “penalties” weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is “Free” or even “Affordable.”
Let's take Will Sheehan as an example.
Note in the last sentence from Mr. Sheehan, he expects "Free" health care.
Note that Mr. Sheehan was presented with a $600/month premium and a $14,000 deductible.
Note that insulin has a retail cost with prescription but no insurance, of anywhere from $300 to $1200 a month, depending on if it's a fancy fast-acting analog, or old fashioned insulin, and depending on how much you consume. Then there is additional costs such as syringes or insulin pumps, blood sugar testers, regular checkups with your diabetic specialist doctor... and then there's the rest of your medical needs that everyone else has.
Mr. Sheehan was basically told... "If you essentially pay for your fee-sucking diabetic condition yourself by means of high premiums and deductibles, we will provide you with health insurance, and that will end up covering just about anything else going on above and beyond basic diabetes maintenance. But you're a guaranteed net loss to us at anything less than a medical expense contribution of about $21,000 a year."
This isn't a temporary hand-up from government we're talking about.
It's lifetime dependency, making all the welfare programs pale in comparison. Putting Mr. Sheehan on a "free" health care plan would result in you and me paying $20,000 a year for the rest of his life.
Where do you stand?
Does Mr. Sheehan merit such relief from the taxpayers of the US?
Is Mr. Sheehan entitled to free knowledge from endocrinologist specialists? Are endocrinologist specialists expected to lower their expected compensation for their skills just because Mr. Sheehan needs it?
How much gratis care should Mr. Sheehan expect from the society we have in place? How much can society expect Mr. Sheehan ought to pay when he makes about $50k a year? What level of care should Mr. Sheehan merit when he is asking for gratis care from society? Should he receive the expensive $150/bottle fast acting insulin analog and auto-dispensing insulin pump, and enough insulin to allow him to drink in bars with his buddies? Or should he get syringes and old fashioned slow acting insulin at $25/bottle, and only enough to balance him out on a healthy diet as prescribed by his doctor?
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I would love to see the email allegedly received by Mr. Sheehan and from where it came.
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I would love to see the email allegedly received by Mr. Sheehan and from where it came.
surely an al jones production is above reproach
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First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with “Non-Payment” and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy “Automatically withdraw” your “penalties” weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is “Free” or even “Affordable
Oh hell yeah! Implement this thing already!
Boehner is only helping his fellow socialists win the next election by tgrying to delay implementation.
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I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually
$600/mo x 12= 7200, 7200 + 14000= 21,200
Subtract that amouint from his salary and it puts him down into the 'poor' income level of those he is subsidizing.
Imagine a family of 4 with an income of $100,000
The middle class is about to evaporate.
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The thing that delights me about this , is that, for once, the utter screw-ups foisted on us by the socialists will be planted in their laps- normally, any leftist disaster is promptly blamed on the conservatives, but this one? I don't think so- it has the Zero's name on it-literally. There are gonna be a lot of really , really pissed off folks by time this abortion goes down. People get hit in the wallet, they remember. By the time it is done, the leftist narrative will be that Obama was an evil Republican.
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The middle class is about to evaporate.
Implying this was not part of the plan.
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This points to another thing I've come to realize lately.
Only an idiot actually shows any assets on paper. "Own nothing, control everything."
I don't yet own my house, but as soon as I do, I won't again. It will be transferred to a holding company, and I will maintain a "friendly lease" with.
Because if you show that you own your house, guess what? It can be taken from you. And you'll never get to take money out of the system while you own it. Got kids going to college? Even if you make $30k a year, you won't get any FASFA help if you have any assets. Don't play ball with obamacare? Tax lien against your house.
Best to look like another schmuck without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out, holding your hand out like everyone else. Being smart, educated, saving and building assets use to be virtue. Now, it's a liability.
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http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-fines-to-be-seized-from-bank-accounts...........
INFOWARS? INFOWARS, REALLY?
I don't mean to sound like I am defending Obama or his blitheringly statist healthcare insurance law but...
INFOWARS, REALLY?? [tinfoil]
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I don't yet own my house, but as soon as I do, I won't again. It will be transferred to a holding company, and I will maintain a "friendly lease" with.
Not sure I'd do that if I were you.
Most states have homestead protections for self-owned primary residences that include pretty solid liability protections and healthy tax breaks (in states with property taxes). You get more protections and breaks from your homestead status than you will from the lease-it-back-to myself scenario. Many, many, many, many more.
If you own your home it can be seized only in very limited circumstances, mostly tax related and usually self-imposed (like, uh, not paying your taxes). If is an asset of a holding company or corporation in which have whole or part ownership, it can be seized or frozen for a whole host of reasons, none of which are pleasant, cheap, easily remedied, or usually result in you retaining the seized asset. It also means that any contents of the seized property are considered part of the seized property unless you can provide proof of actual ownership. In other words, everything in the home is considered seized unless you have a receipt to show differently.
Brad
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Excellent points, Brad, thank you.
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Too bad it's Infowars. I'm sure there is a small kernel of truth in the story, but that's about it. Just enough to wrap the tinfoil around.
If it were all true...boy howdy how things would get interesting in a year or so. Hit the electorate in their wallet, even the FSA and other Obama worshipers, and the ramifications for the Dems would be pretty serious come the next election cycle. And Obamacare would be done.
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INFOWARS? INFOWARS, REALLY?
I don't mean to sound like I am defending Obama or his blitheringly statist healthcare insurance law but...
INFOWARS, REALLY?? [tinfoil]
Well, it could be Worldnetdaily.
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Basically we are doubly screwed.
Though I cannot find it online, I recall reading the health care plan by Hillary, in which we were screwed.
It just keeps getting better and better (if'n you are a democrat) or worser and worser if you are not a democrat.
For the record: I have never voted for a democrat, not even for dog catcher.
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Basically we are doubly screwed.
Though I cannot find it online, I recall reading the health care plan by Hillary, in which we were screwed.
It just keeps getting better and better (if'n you are a democrat) or worser and worser if you are not a democrat.
For the record: I have never voted for a democrat, not even for dog catcher.
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AZRedhawk,
I'm not a morning person, so maybe I'm not reading this right. Is it your opinion that Will Sheehan is looking for a handout, or is in favor of the Unaffordable Health Care Act?
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I, myself, am disappoint that AZR did not ask if we would send men with guns to extract money from him by force to pay for all this.
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AZRedhawk,
I'm not a morning person, so maybe I'm not reading this right. Is it your opinion that Will Sheehan is looking for a handout, or is in favor of the Unaffordable Health Care Act?
You guys know my opinion at this point.
I, myself, am disappoint that AZR did not ask if we would send men with guns to extract money from him by force to pay for all this.
:police: [ar15] :police: [ar15] :police: [ar15] :police: [ar15] :police: [ar15]
This is what I asked, and was looking to see where the APS Hive Mind stands:
Where do you stand?
Does Mr. Sheehan merit such relief from the taxpayers of the US?
Is Mr. Sheehan entitled to free knowledge from endocrinologist specialists? Are endocrinologist specialists expected to lower their expected compensation for their skills just because Mr. Sheehan needs it?
How much gratis care should Mr. Sheehan expect from the society we have in place? How much can society expect Mr. Sheehan ought to pay when he makes about $50k a year? What level of care should Mr. Sheehan merit when he is asking for gratis care from society? Should he receive the expensive $150/bottle fast acting insulin analog and auto-dispensing insulin pump, and enough insulin to allow him to drink in bars with his buddies? Or should he get syringes and old fashioned slow acting insulin at $25/bottle, and only enough to balance him out on a healthy diet as prescribed by his doctor?
Using the latest diabetic technology (that I am aware of) it will cost about $21,000 a year to keep Mr. Sheehan alive.
Using the most affordable diabetic technology that puts the bulk of the onus onto Mr. Sheehan rather than throwing money at the problem, it will cost somewhere around $7500 a year to keep Mr. Sheehan alive. This involves older insulin tech, requirements that Sheehan will eat properly for his condition rather than drink alcohol and eat high-carb bar food (which increases insulin demand), and a less expensive insulin delivery system.
Diabetics are one of the core types of patients that are driving health care costs up into the stratosphere for everyone. They are EXPENSIVE people to keep alive. And there's no cure. Insuring them means a guarantee of tens of thousands of dollars in care a year for the insurer.
Someone has to pay for that. Or, no one will pay for that.
These types of people are behind the mentality that created Obamacare... the ones that are essentially terminally ill on a long term scale and will require expensive maintenance care, but either can't or won't pay for it.
I don't know if Mr. Sheehan is eating a diabetic-friendly diet and getting by on low cost insulin and syringes, or if he's found a way to pay out of pocket for a fancy insulin pump and the latest insulin tech in high volume so he can consume a high carb diet. Maybe he was getting his stuff off of Silk Road for a decent price. Who knows.
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Or maybe Sheehan is an anarcho-capitalist blogger, just reporting on Obamacare, using his own personal experience.
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My guess is that AZRH44 was a Spartan in his previous life, and was responsible for that city-state's policy of relocating the sick and weak to the wilderness where they would die of exposure. They represented a liability to the bottom line, don't ya know? :laugh:
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My guess is that AZRH44 was a Spartan in his previous life, and was responsible for that city-state's policy of relocating the sick and weak to the wilderness where they would die of exposure. They represented a liability to the bottom line, don't ya know? :laugh:
Would you like to answer the question rather than dodge it with irrelevant, if humorous, ad-hominem attacks?
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My guess is that AZRH44 was a Spartan in his previous life, and was responsible for that city-state's policy of relocating the sick and weak to the wilderness where they would die of exposure. They represented a liability to the bottom line, don't ya know? :laugh:
Sounds like a good plan to me >:D
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Speaking of which, I'm betting that ghettocare is going to answer the ethical/moral/financial issues with this one:
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/cost-of-cystic-fibrosis-drug-others-threatens-health-care-doctors-say-b99111609z1-226190541.html
About 30,000 people in the United States have cystic fibrosis. When Kalydeco came on the market in 2012, it was approved to treat only about 4% of those patients who have a particular genetic mutation.
Originally, the drug, which comes in the form of two pills a day, was priced at $294,000 a year. Months later, Vertex increased its price to $307,000.
The charge to individual patients can be as high as $373,000, according to doctors writing in JAMA.
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Just making an observation with a subtle hint - not everybody is the paragon of health.
I know many diabetics who would much rather not be diabetic. Same goes for those with Parkinson's, MS, and so forth.
Health insurance is risk management, not unlike any other type of insurance. Healthy people pay for treatment of folks who are not.
Since the new rules state that folks with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied, then the money's gotta come from somewhere.
We disabled military vets are a big suck on the economy, too. So I'm real careful about making references to the Sheehans of the world.
Are we at the point where we pick and choose who is worthy of care and who is not?
Quite honestly, I'm somewhat embarrassed I spent all day Tuesday at the VA Hospital, getting my broken shoulder tended to.
I try to stay away from that place, and leave it for the guys with horrific injuries trying to resume something of a normal life.
I feel bad, because I don't have limbs or a big chunk of skull missing - I can walk in and walk out. But they're all I've got right now, so I use them.
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Are we at the point where we pick and choose who is worthy of care and who is not?
Yes, but there will be no "we" about it.
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Just making an observation with a subtle hint - not everybody is the paragon of health.
I know many diabetics who would much rather not be diabetic. Same goes for those with Parkinson's, MS, and so forth.
Health insurance is risk management, not unlike any other type of insurance. Healthy people pay for treatment of folks who are not.
Since the new rules state that folks with pre-existing conditions cannot be denied, then the money's gotta come from somewhere.
We disabled military vets are a big suck on the economy, too. So I'm real careful about making references to the Sheehans of the world.
Are we at the point where we pick and choose who is worthy of care and who is not?
Two words: Death Panel.
If you have some common disease that there are already meds for, you'll probably be ok. If you have a rare disease, don't count on anyone looking for a cure from this point forward, unless the cure serendipitiously (accidentally) comes out of a politically driven experiment (ie fetal stem cell research), and even then, the cost for low volume drug makign is going to be horrendously expensive.
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I try to stay away from that place, and leave it for the guys with horrific injuries trying to resume something of a normal life.
I feel bad, because I don't have limbs or a big chunk of skull missing - I can walk in and walk out. But they're all I've got right now, so I use them.
This.
This is why I've had nothing to do with the VA. Yet. However, I may be forced to at some point.
And again, this is where the debate has gone off the rails Healthcare =/= Health Insurance. Insurance is the transfer of risk in exchange for value. However, once the risk condition has occurred it is no longer risk. The company that offered to assume the risk, now owns it.
What (some/most of) these people want is simply someone else to pay. They however, weren't willing to pay for someone to assume that risk prior to it's occurrence.
RE: The VA. I do believe that there is/was an implied contract made with those who served. And priority should be to those who bears the scars of wars and service. G98, you've earned it, feel not ashamed.